bhrubin

Even at peak rates, Cat 6, 7, and 8 hotels cost less in Marriott points than they did under SPG with SPG points. That isn't a devaluation.

It's a devaluation only from what everyone got used to this past 18 months--with the new award chart lacking Cat 8 pricing until March 15 and without the peak and off peak pricing that was announced in May 2018. Before that, however, all these prices were more with SPG. Hard to call it a devaluation.

It isn't sugar coating: those are the facts. People who can't accept or detest change simply are playing the victim with a pretend devaluation that isn't from the SPG perspective.

conde

This thread is about the ability to redeem Peak and Off-peak awards, not about a subset of select guests who Marriott should please the most.

I canceled my AMEX SPG card several months ago, as the new math for earning/burning under Bonvoy didn't work for me. I always earned most of my points through credit card spend. This isn't about credit card signup bonuses as I had my AMEX SPG card for over 10 years. I never considered myself a "speculator" because I wanted to earn points to redeem award stays.

Since I canceled my AMEX SPG card, I don't chase top level Bonvoy status, so you should be happy. I am happy to not accumulate points via cc spend for Bonvoy.

There are many Bonvoy members, however, that aren't asking for additional status, recognition, or much more than the ability to earn and redeem Bonvoy points at good value. This is not something that should be worse, but unfortunately it is.

Keyser

there is no spg anymore....trying to compare the current situation with something that hasn't existed for around 2 years now doesn't really make sense....

bolding mine....its a devaluation compared to what exists now....nothing else matters....

it is sugar-coating....you keep living in the past....you are right when you say it isn't a devaluation when compared to spg but spg is no more & you can't compare the upcoming change to something that doesn't exist anymore....compare it to what exists now....& when you do so, its a devaluation, no matter how much you want to justify it isn't....

once again, not the end of the world but a devaluation nevertheless....

bhrubin

Funny how it's OK to dismiss how there's no SPG any more...while ignoring that there's no free points advance any more, no only standard awards any more, no easy 5th night free any more. How convenient that we can ignore what used to be with SPG to compare how things are now...while focusing only on what just changed in the last few days.

I think that's pretty hypocritical.

Again, it's convenient how everyone wants to only consider what was true a week ago compared to now...while ignoring what was true 2 years ago. How convenient, indeed. Just pick the historical timeframe to suit the argument we need to feel like a victim, and ignore all other timeframes.

Nothing else matters? No, that's not accurate. Just because it isn't convenient for what someone wants to believe doesn't mean it doesn't matter.

I guess no one can be a victim once everyone admits the fact and truth that the current Bonvoy scenario is STILL better than what was true under the supposedly amazing SPG. Everyone wants to be a victim, so they are only looking at the facts to allow them to be a victim.

I'm right when I compared it to SPG. But that's living in the past you tell me.

I'm wrong when I compared it to a week ago. That apparently isn't past enough for you.

Irony? Nope. Hypocrisy? Yep.

hhoope01

Since we already have a general Peak/Off-Peak Discussion thread, I'm closing this one (but leaving it as a Sticky for visibility to everyone).

Please continue all discussions on this topic in the Peak and off peak Awards (General Discussion) thread.

Keyser

keep justifying it all you want....it costs 50k today & the same thing will cost 60k on many dates after september 14th....that's a devaluation....no matter how you want to look at it....

bhrubin

True dat. Except it also cost 60-75K equivalent with SPG (20-25K SPG points) up until Aug 2018. That isn't a devaluation.

Keyser

august 2018 was a year ago....compared to today's rate its a devaluation....

also, you keep skipping the part that all categories are going into peak pricing....not just the higher categories....

bhrubin

Glass half full is an optimist; glass half empty is a pessimist. I'm delighted to be an optimist.

I'm not skipping anything--it is what it is. I personally don't care about the lower categories since I don't stay at those often and I never have had an award stay at any of those. But the lower categories ALSO are either no more expensive in points than they were with SPG or are slightly devalued by maybe 5K Marriott points. Not too much of a devaluation IMO.

Also, over time, every award chart devalues with category changes. So there's always devaluation creep.

The sky isn't falling. The sky hasn't fallen. But it's very popular to think otherwise on FlyerTalk whenever things change.

Keyser

good for you....

sure, if it doesn't effect you then the situation doesn't exist....

sorry buddy, that's not the way the world works....

completely agree....i said it in one of my first posts, its not the end of the world....life will go on, the sky won't fall....but its a devaluation nevertheless....

BMWMOT

I have 2 reservations in October. One is at a Cat 4 hotel using my free night certificate for one of the nights. It used to be a Cat 1-5 hotel but what, those changed to 35K pts certs?
The second is at a Cat 2 hotel using points, 12.5K currently. If I understand this correctly, if the certificate is already attached (it is) at my Cat 4 hotel, it will be honored regardless if the hotel ends up being peak or off peak.
For the Cat 2 hotel if it changes to peak or off peak, I have to pay the difference or I may get points back.
Sound right?

bhrubin

That there is some devaluation I don't disagree. It's just a very small devaluation at the lowest categories, more than balanced out by the fact that the higher categories are revalued as much if not more. In the overall evaluation, it still is less expensive overall compared with SPG.

Ah, the beauty of perspective strikes us again.

Keyser

there is a great many number of people who care a lot more about the lower categories than the higher ones....not everyone redeems their points only at category 6, 7 & 8 properties....some people forget that the marriott (or past spg) program is made up of members who redeem points at all category hotels, not just the higher ones....

but ultimately it doesn't matter....there is going to be an increase in points from the lowest to the highest categories....that is a devaluation from every perspective....

EuropeanPete

Broadly speaking this was always part of the designed programme and so is only really a devaluation as far as people having a period of grace. However, I do think the news that people with credit card freebie nights won't be allowed to use them towards Cat 5 hotels at peak came as a bit of surprise.

Marriott has presumably concluded (with some basis in fact) that now SPG is no longer a competitor, they don't have to be as generous to credit card holders as they used to be. The slashed earning and now the decreased value of free nights makes it quite a downgrade - as you'd expect from a competitive situation where they've closed down what one can argue was their only serious competitor for mid to high earners.

As a non-US resident I can't help thinking that there are advantages to the scheme being marginally less biased towards US credit card holders and slightly rebalanced towards "internationals" (who nonetheless suffer from being part of a scheme primarily designed for Americans), but I can imagine that those with credit cards might not feel the same. Hilton or Hyatt are probably not valid alternatives for most. The question is whether it makes any of the Chase/ AMEX points cards relatively more attractive.

pinniped

Not only this, but they've designed the program such that the value is at the high and low ends, with the middle often being the worst value of all.

I'd also suggest that there are a *lot* of Bonvoy Cat 6's now that wouldn't have been worthy of anything above a SPG Cat 3 or maybe a 4 on a good day. There are a lot of rather run-of-the-mill 6's out there now.

Former Starwood 5's and up were nearly always excellent hotels. Occasional dud in a high-cost city but not as many as there are boring/bland Bonvoy 6's.