silver4300

I think that WM BP is through checkfreepay, not moneygram. I always use checkfreepay.

FTR 787

those are letters

fixed

he's obv talking about MOs. but MG also offers BP (more exp tho)

PaulMSN

Things are still clicking at my WM. This morning I bought 6 $1000 MOs because I had that many cards, the MC was open and the most efficient and friendly cashier was there. My finger did get tired from all the change tender presses. Madison is a good place for MS.

Andy2

That VeriPhone is the crappy 1970s style black and white terminal that switches to FU mode milliseconds after the swiping of a VGC. I never thought about pushing one on the red or yellow buttons on the side, but I am not certain when to push one of them.

Domat

If your goal is to prolong the deal then please stop using it and tell all the other people who want to prolong this to stop MSing as well. If the more people who know about it equals less time we have then it only reasons that we need people to stop to help prolong it.

Spread the word at the next talk you do or on your blog.

What is AS?

FTR 787

Domat comes out swinging ^ #troof101

silver4300

The number of people is only one factor. How people MS is also a factor. I've noticed that some people can read a blog or a wiki, get a couple of facts, dive in and get over their head. This not only harms themselves, but also our craft. Someone trying to liquidate 25 $200 gift cards in one visit because s/he *needs* to money to pay rent - then throws a fit when there is a problem because s/he *needs* the money by this Tuesday is not good. I would consider this irresponsible MS behavior that harms our craft.

Some people entering MS have related skills, pick it up quickly and MS responsibly. Others need more time to learn and develop skills.

FTR 787

since every coin has 2 sides, think about it this way -- those kinda ppl (in your example) serve to weed themselves out once their losses become too heavy if they indeed dive in head first and go way too deep, too fast... but not only that, while they play in this arena they might drown in debt for a bit, have to pay all kinda fees/misplaced GCs/lost $$ value etc which guess what, kinda benefits us... how? well when CC issuers or incomm or whoever makes money off of em, it technically makes our long game last longer.

sure the immediate MS methods maybe under a bright white spotlight, but methods are known to come and go... every method eventually dies. whats more important is the bigger picture staying ever eternal.

noobs who screw up, cost only themselves money -- which goes to either the CC companies, stores, vendors aka back into the system and ultimately comes to us as rewards.

that is what the ppl who designed this game count on. and this is the opposite of the tragedy of commons -- it is the redistribution of wealth points/miles/CB/rewards.

Domat

You keep using that example as if it means something. Newbie30 apparently is from a very small town. He knew this cashier and she had no problem doing it for him. She even swiped for him. He did nothing wrong.

Some people have been doing MS for 40 years and still do things you think are deal killers. Marathon man above for instance has stated on several occasions he is a go hard until the deal is dead (from other peoples actions of course. he would never contribute to the demise).

I believe you have stated in the past that this is a deal killer? Not to mention he is a *gasp* blogger. which even if they have 6 readers are more of a deal killer then FT with many many more.

ceverett

Oh Lord, Sir Circles and Arrows has blogger offspring!

silver4300

I do think that very heavy use puts a strain on an MS avenue - e.g. Staples deal - I also think people who MS irresponsibly harm the craft - whether they are noobs are veterans. For example, someone calling in to do a billpay over and over with a stack of VGCs - which don't work - harms MS. It clogs up phone lines and frustrates CSRs and supervisors. Yes, deals die - but they don't need to die so quickly.

Consider this analogy. I am a long distance runner. I live in an area that doesn't have many good running places. The roads are in shambles due to the harsh winter, the mosquitoes and deer flies are awful on wooded trails, many people let their dogs off leash including pit bulls, there is only one small park and people drive like maniacs. Fortunately, there is a local cemetery with wonderful running. It is 1.2 mile soft dirt road loop around the perimeter. No traffic or pit bulls. Sparsley wooded and open country views. There is a lake and a river within view and it is peaceful and serene. I absolutely love running there. One of the best things in this depressed town. Technically, jogging is against the posted rules. But, it isn't enforced and a jogger can be occasionally seen there. I have spoken to the manager about jogging there and he rolled his eyes and sighed. He preferred it didn't occur, yet it wasn't worth the effort now to try and eliminate it. He didn't tell me to stop jogging there, but I could tell he wanted me to be discrete.

So here's the thing: the cemetery deal may come to an end at any time. I want it to continue for as long as possible. As I see it, there are two main risk factors - too many people start jogging there OR not too many people jog there but some act irresponsibly. Some people just kinda *get it*. They just have common sense and decency. For example, they know that jogging through a funeral procession is bad. Yet, others act irresponsibly. I've seen a jogger run off the main road into the grassy area around tombstones. I've seen a jogger run right by mourners at grave sites when he could have easily run down a side path. I've seen a jogger spit. ::facepalms:: These are the minority of joggers however they have a big impact and could ruin the deal for those of us jogging responsibly through there. I think some of those that are irresponsible are not trying to cause harm, they are just oblivious. I have spoken to a few and tried to educate them. "Please don't run or spit near mourners because they may find this offensive and complain to management." The response is usually, "Oh, that's a good point. I was so focused on my pace that I hadn't even thought of that. Thanks."

36902BRF

I don't know if the two WM I went to today had been "upgraded" but I had no problems getting MOs with TDG VB card. Worked just has before no need for work around. This is different than another report in this thread.

Marathon Man

I do not have a blog. I write in a web site that is in my sig line and if You read the crap I write it is exactly what you are asking for.

Also, I have made many of my own mistakes and I am responsible for them. They are not someone Else's fault all the time. I have not listened to people who were trying to help or tell me things. maybe because I could not see it, maybe because I thought their delivery was mean or something. Who knows. For example, QL_714 has tried to tell people in his own way to not blow it up. I used to not listen to him. I might still not listen to him. But the fact is he has usually been quite right about these things!

I am not immune. I have made mistakes and yet I am trying to help people learn from mine to not make the same ones. But I aint no MS saint and nobody is.

People can MS... they just gotta figure out a better way of doing it. That is what I tout.

And because I just said that, you know I cannot tell you what AS is. You have to go find it on your own. Although it dies today so there goes the best MS deal that actually lasted at least 14 years! And it lasted that long because in the beginning no one knew about it. Then, if it hit FT, everyone agreed to hide it. And later when more deals came along, it got placed in the back anyway cuz there are better deals than AS. But it did end, and that is sad.

This jogger analogy is spot on.
The problem is...

not everyone will listen to these words.
not every jogger is going to listen because hey, they have egos and who are you to tell them how to be?
and finally, out of sheer numbers, even if everyone did it right, the manager will eventually say no more, there are too many of you!

At CLT one of my analogies in my speech was similar:

I said... "I mean it’s kinda like my neighborhood in Springtime. Everyone knows we can dump wheel barrels full of sticks and weeds and leaves and dirt and stones in a small swath of town-owned forested land down the street between where our neighborhood ends and the one on another street begins. But we all also know we should go back there once and while and rake out some of the piles and keep the area looking half decent, less clogged, easier than not to navigate into and out of.

(I showed pics of a small forested area end of my street)

No one “owns it” or needs to be in charge… we all are. But if we don’t do this little extra effort now and then, it will look ugly, get messed up and hard to utilize and eventually a neighbor will complain or the town will shut it down for our use. For now, though, as long as everyone does their thing, does their part and hushes up, we have a free place to dump! It’s like a giant compost pile and people can even use ground from there to make gardens, etc. So it sustains itself as long as we sustain this notion. New neighbors are shown how it works. Most of my neighbors in our little community are good stewards.

Like this, we need to be good stewards of MS.

(I then showed a pic of junk at end of street near one side of the small, otherwise well kept forested area)

Here’s an example of one neighbor who lives near the little forest who DOES NOT care about us or his surroundings. He doesn’t clean up, he doesn’t clean his own yard and he collects junk. He abuses this. And note that abuse is not defined as someone who, say collects too many points or in this case, a lot of scrap in a make shift junk yard, rather, it is defined by someone not caring about his surroundings, his constituents, his neighborhood. And we are a community or a MS neighborhood and we must care about it.

You can see the above picture showing this person’s yard, and if he was an MSer, he is doing it the wrong way…"

Domat

You want to hide MS (no wiki, codes etc) because you want less people to learn these tricks especially after you did. You want less people because more exposure = more usage more usage will hurt the longevity of a deal.

Now you stopping MS will help that as well. Especially since you are a Go hard until it dies kind of guy. You also got lectured here about arguing with the manager. You also undoubtedly are taking all the free info you can and discussing it in your secret groups. You won't even tell us about a dead deal so we can learn and the people who share and improve deals can see if it is re creatable with something else.



I hate to tell you but your website is a blog and you are blogging. Don't jump off a bridge now.

silver4300

I think most of the runners around here are pretty reasonable and know that it is a fragile scenario. Yet, you are correct - I have encountered some negative attitudes as well - The "Yea, whatever dude" - attitude.

The thing is. . . I think it would be easier for management to enforce the No Jogging Rule for everyone than to ban specific irresponsible runners.

Sooooo. Should I publish announcements in our local newspaper and tv station informing all the area joggers of this great resource? I could really promote it. The soft dirt trail has less impact than asphalt roads. Much easier on the knees. Beautiful scenery and safe. Shouldn't everyone know about this great place? How could I deny them this pleasure? Maybe I could even make some money off it. . . . OR, should I be more discrete? I've started running with a new running buddy - he was born and raised in the town and is very community-minded. Last week, I took him running through the cemetery and he couldn't believe how expansive and beautiful it was. He loved it. I gave him the unwritten "do's and don'ts" of running there and he was very receptive. I've also spoken to the cross country coach about the situation and asked him to consider not allowing the entire team to run through there at once. He also seemed receptive to the idea - although I think he mostly wants to avoid bad PR and complaints.

Also, I liked your analogy. Good stuff.