Mar 17, 2014, 3:08 pm
Last edit by: JDiver
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Welcome to the MH370 Discussion and Speculation Thread
Welcome to the MH370 Discussion and Speculation Thread
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FlyerTalk members come from all walks of life and all parts of the world. We are as diverse in our makeup as we are alike in our passion for frequent flyer programs. Because we all bring a unique perspective to the forum, our collective experience is broadened, and we gain new insights.
Our diversity demands that we respect each other. Due to the inherent constraints of the Internet, humor, sarcasm, language and slang can be easily misinterpreted - especially when crossing cultural boundaries.
When posting a message, pay extra care to how it might be interpreted. And when you come across a post that offends you, read it with an eye toward giving the poster the benefit of the doubt.
If you have an issue with a post, please contact the member privately or contact a moderator (click on the
button). Do not make a situation worse by publicly responding.
In order to a) keep the original thread focused on confirmed news and known facts, and b) allow folks a place to discuss their ideas about what might have happened, the MH370 moderators and Community Director have decided to open this thread.
Here are the expectations:
1. The normal FT TOS apply. (Including not discussing moderation actions on-thread). And please be particularly attentive to "discussing the idea and not the poster" when you have a disagreement. Civility and mutual respect are still expected and are what we owe each other as a community.
2. You are expected respect our diversity , and therefore refrain from posting inflammatory comments about race, religion, culture, politics, ethnicity, orientation, etc." Do not cite, copy, or report on such.
3. Please do continue to be attentive to the sensibilities of the families of those on the flight. Think about if you were them what you would and would not want to see posted. Speculation about what happened is permissible; please, though, do not indulge in inflammatory or overly-lurid descriptions that could well be hurtful.
4. Overly / extravagantly exaggerative posts such as conspiracy theories, posts beyond the realm of science and known facts, etc. as well as posts with information that has been posted several times previously, information that has been posted in the News thread wiki or FAQ, may be deleted. E.g. the aircraft was vaporized.
In terms of housekeeping, posts may get moved from the "news" thread if and as needed, and posts that do not conform to these simple expectations, above, will be deleted.
Also note: this wiki is locked; changes can only be made by moderators.
Thank you.
Your MH370 Moderation Team
aBroadAbroad; cblaisd; JDiver; l'etoile; NewbieRunner; oliver2002; Prospero
and Community Director
SanDiego1K
MH370 Discussion and Speculation Thread
May 28, 2014, 3:41 pm
#1741
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: SW London
Programs: BAEC Silver; Hilton Diamond;a miscellany of other hotel non-statuses
Posts: 3,607
I'm pretty new to the satellite data and the Inmarsat data is really confusing. Can someone help me to make sense of it?
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/...inmarsat-data/
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/...inmarsat-data/
Imagine you have a shiny ball on a short piece of string and you're spinning it around lasso style just in front of your forehead. Then imagine you move your other hand in a sweep slowly across your torso. The ball represents the satellite, your hand the plane, and your left eye is the Earth ground station. You happen to be wearing spectacles that shine a laser at the ball, so that it bounces off of there and onto your hand. Because you're wearing a shiny glove the light bounces back to the ball and towards your eye.
Although light travels very quickly it still takes a bit of time to go from spectacles to ball to hand to ball to eye. So you can measure that time and by carefully accounting for exactly where the ball was on its path can then calculate how far away from the ball your hand must have been by multiplying the time taken by the speed of light.
Additionally you can look at the light you get back to see if it is a bit redder or bluer than you sent, which is the Doppler offset effect, to work out whether you hand and the ball are getting closer or further apart at that instant.
Those two values for travel time and frequency offset are the last columns in the Inmarsat data. By looking at the patterns and values in them you can start to infer possible paths, as long as you make assumptions about speed, etc.
Does that help?
Last edited by EsherFlyer; May 28, 2014 at 3:47 pm
May 28, 2014, 5:18 pm
#1742
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: BOS & SFO
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold
Posts: 675
Where do you want to start?
Imagine you have a shiny ball on a short piece of string and you're spinning it around lasso style just in front of your forehead. Then imagine you move your other hand in a sweep slowly across your torso. The ball represents the satellite, your hand the plane, and your left eye is the Earth ground station. You happen to be wearing spectacles that shine a laser at the ball, so that it bounces off of there and onto your hand. Because you're wearing a shiny glove the light bounces back to the ball and towards your eye.
Although light travels very quickly it still takes a bit of time to go from spectacles to ball to hand to ball to eye. So you can measure that time and by carefully accounting for exactly where the ball was on its path can then calculate how far away from the ball your hand must have been by multiplying the time taken by the speed of light.
Additionally you can look at the light you get back to see if it is a bit redder or bluer than you sent, which is the Doppler offset effect, to work out whether you hand and the ball are getting closer or further apart at that instant.
Those two values for travel time and frequency offset are the last columns in the Inmarsat data. By looking at the patterns and values in them you can start to infer possible paths, as long as you make assumptions about speed, etc.
Does that help?
Imagine you have a shiny ball on a short piece of string and you're spinning it around lasso style just in front of your forehead. Then imagine you move your other hand in a sweep slowly across your torso. The ball represents the satellite, your hand the plane, and your left eye is the Earth ground station. You happen to be wearing spectacles that shine a laser at the ball, so that it bounces off of there and onto your hand. Because you're wearing a shiny glove the light bounces back to the ball and towards your eye.
Although light travels very quickly it still takes a bit of time to go from spectacles to ball to hand to ball to eye. So you can measure that time and by carefully accounting for exactly where the ball was on its path can then calculate how far away from the ball your hand must have been by multiplying the time taken by the speed of light.
Additionally you can look at the light you get back to see if it is a bit redder or bluer than you sent, which is the Doppler offset effect, to work out whether you hand and the ball are getting closer or further apart at that instant.
Those two values for travel time and frequency offset are the last columns in the Inmarsat data. By looking at the patterns and values in them you can start to infer possible paths, as long as you make assumptions about speed, etc.
Does that help?
May 29, 2014, 4:11 am
#1743
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: BOS & SFO
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold
Posts: 675
I haven't really read through the whole thread but I could imagine a scenario where there's a landing gear fire caused by a short-circuit. The pilot sets the autopilot on course to Langkawi Island in the Maldives, where there's a large runway. The pilot pulls switches frantically to stop the fire, and one of them stops communications. Then the fire reaches the cockpit, where it knocks the pilots out and the plane continues on autopilot. I could imagine something similar to TWA 800 - the cockpit separates from the rest of the plane. The rearward part of the fuselage ascends and then descends.
Hard to imagine that a scenario in 1996 with a jet (N93119) built in 1971 could happen in 2014 with a jet built in 2002 (9M-MRO). :shudder:
Hard to imagine that a scenario in 1996 with a jet (N93119) built in 1971 could happen in 2014 with a jet built in 2002 (9M-MRO). :shudder:
May 29, 2014, 7:14 am
#1745
Suspended
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 687
May 29, 2014, 8:18 am
#1746
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Park, CO
Programs: Tegridy Elite
Posts: 5,678
And while I guess anything is possible, I doubt the pilots would accidentally disable all comms while attempting to deal with a fire. They know where the necessary fire supression activation switches are, they're not going to just start flailing around at random levers and switches, hoping something works.
May 29, 2014, 8:50 am
#1747
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Dallas, TX USA
Programs: Rapid Rewards/AAdvantage
Posts: 1,245
Pings unrelated?
"CNN reported the Navys civilian deputy director of ocean engineering, Michael Dean, had said most countries now agreed that the sounds detected by the Navys Towed Ping Locator in April in the southern Indian Ocean came from a manmade source unrelated to the jet, which vanished March 8 with 239 people on board. "
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/201...urce-of-ocean/
So maybe we are back to square one
"CNN reported the Navys civilian deputy director of ocean engineering, Michael Dean, had said most countries now agreed that the sounds detected by the Navys Towed Ping Locator in April in the southern Indian Ocean came from a manmade source unrelated to the jet, which vanished March 8 with 239 people on board. "
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/201...urce-of-ocean/
So maybe we are back to square one
May 29, 2014, 2:38 pm
#1748
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: East Anglia UK
Programs: BA-S UA LH-Sen KLM/AF-Plat.
Posts: 1,627
Pings unrelated?
"CNN reported the Navys civilian deputy director of ocean engineering, Michael Dean, had said most countries now agreed that the sounds detected by the Navys Towed Ping Locator in April in the southern Indian Ocean came from a manmade source unrelated to the jet, which vanished March 8 with 239 people on board. "
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/201...urce-of-ocean/
So maybe we are back to square one
"CNN reported the Navys civilian deputy director of ocean engineering, Michael Dean, had said most countries now agreed that the sounds detected by the Navys Towed Ping Locator in April in the southern Indian Ocean came from a manmade source unrelated to the jet, which vanished March 8 with 239 people on board. "
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/201...urce-of-ocean/
So maybe we are back to square one
May 29, 2014, 3:15 pm
#1749
Join Date: May 2011
Programs: US Airways Gold, Marriott Platinum, SW A List
Posts: 1,575
I doubt they know, but maybe another search boat or something like that? I know the Chinese had a false ready as well far away from another search area.
May 29, 2014, 3:31 pm
#1750
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: SW London
Programs: BAEC Silver; Hilton Diamond;a miscellany of other hotel non-statuses
Posts: 3,607
.
May 29, 2014, 4:28 pm
#1751
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 4
I wonder how long it will be before they admit they were mislead by more than those false pings. The recalculation on the speed of the plane will eventually be found to be a false trail. Any survivors will be long dead by the time that lot eventually work out they were deliberately lead on a wild goose chase.
They should go back to their original search pattern.
They should go back to their original search pattern.
May 31, 2014, 1:23 pm
#1752
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Germany, Austria
Programs: IHG Diamond Ambassador, ALL Silver,, Miles&More
Posts: 1,122
Another trace indicating it could be in the Indian Ocean:
MH370: Curtin University team checks undersea recorders for sounds of plane crash
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-2...sounds/5487054
And some interesting theories on the other hand:
13 theories of what happened to Flight MH370
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/w...w/35762712.cms
MH370: Curtin University team checks undersea recorders for sounds of plane crash
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-2...sounds/5487054
And some interesting theories on the other hand:
13 theories of what happened to Flight MH370
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/w...w/35762712.cms
Last edited by submonte; May 31, 2014 at 1:47 pm
May 31, 2014, 4:46 pm
#1753
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Cape Cod MA
Programs: GS, 3 MM, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 752
Interesting thread on cruisers Forum
Cruiser's forum describes a possible sighting of MH370
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...70-127132.html
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...70-127132.html
Jun 1, 2014, 9:36 am
#1754
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ATL Lost Luggage
Programs: Kettle with Kryptonium Medallion Tags
Posts: 10,309
Another trace indicating it could be in the Indian Ocean:
MH370: Curtin University team checks undersea recorders for sounds of plane crash
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-2...sounds/5487054
MH370: Curtin University team checks undersea recorders for sounds of plane crash
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-2...sounds/5487054
[Dr. Alec Duncan, a senior lecturer and research fellow at Curtin University's Centre for Marine Science and Technology] said the team's current conclusion was that the sound was probably not from the crashing aircraft.
"Everybody would love this to be related to MH370 because it would give them a cross bearing [on the predicted flight path] and that would vastly reduce their search areas," Dr Duncan said.
"But unfortunately it's not really looking that way at the moment."
"Everybody would love this to be related to MH370 because it would give them a cross bearing [on the predicted flight path] and that would vastly reduce their search areas," Dr Duncan said.
"But unfortunately it's not really looking that way at the moment."
Jun 7, 2014, 3:17 am
#1755
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Germany, Austria
Programs: IHG Diamond Ambassador, ALL Silver,, Miles&More
Posts: 1,122
By the way, RatherBeOnATrain, I havenīt set a foot into a plane since MH370 disappearance. Currently I drive by car or use high speed trains (ICE in Germany) for my travel. Next week I have to fly first time again, to Manchester/UK from Munich, too far to drive. Also my next flight to Asia is may be coming soon.
This incident has shocked me seriously. I have been more than one time on that MH night flight route from KL to Beijing as part of my job in the medical devices industry. The way the investigation, search and official communication to the public has been handled, leaves me speechless. I personally put the blame on the aircraft industry, and the investigators, both totally incapabil, if not ruthlessly hiding the truth and taking all of us and the press and media for fools.
Last edited by submonte; Jun 7, 2014 at 10:08 am