Mar 17, 2014, 3:08 pm
Last edit by: JDiver
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Welcome to the MH370 Discussion and Speculation Thread
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FlyerTalk members come from all walks of life and all parts of the world. We are as diverse in our makeup as we are alike in our passion for frequent flyer programs. Because we all bring a unique perspective to the forum, our collective experience is broadened, and we gain new insights.
Our diversity demands that we respect each other. Due to the inherent constraints of the Internet, humor, sarcasm, language and slang can be easily misinterpreted - especially when crossing cultural boundaries.
When posting a message, pay extra care to how it might be interpreted. And when you come across a post that offends you, read it with an eye toward giving the poster the benefit of the doubt.
If you have an issue with a post, please contact the member privately or contact a moderator (click on the
button). Do not make a situation worse by publicly responding.
In order to a) keep the original thread focused on confirmed news and known facts, and b) allow folks a place to discuss their ideas about what might have happened, the MH370 moderators and Community Director have decided to open this thread.
Here are the expectations:
1. The normal FT TOS apply. (Including not discussing moderation actions on-thread). And please be particularly attentive to "discussing the idea and not the poster" when you have a disagreement. Civility and mutual respect are still expected and are what we owe each other as a community.
2. You are expected respect our diversity , and therefore refrain from posting inflammatory comments about race, religion, culture, politics, ethnicity, orientation, etc." Do not cite, copy, or report on such.
3. Please do continue to be attentive to the sensibilities of the families of those on the flight. Think about if you were them what you would and would not want to see posted. Speculation about what happened is permissible; please, though, do not indulge in inflammatory or overly-lurid descriptions that could well be hurtful.
4. Overly / extravagantly exaggerative posts such as conspiracy theories, posts beyond the realm of science and known facts, etc. as well as posts with information that has been posted several times previously, information that has been posted in the News thread wiki or FAQ, may be deleted. E.g. the aircraft was vaporized.
In terms of housekeeping, posts may get moved from the "news" thread if and as needed, and posts that do not conform to these simple expectations, above, will be deleted.
Also note: this wiki is locked; changes can only be made by moderators.
Thank you.
Your MH370 Moderation Team
aBroadAbroad; cblaisd; JDiver; l'etoile; NewbieRunner; oliver2002; Prospero
and Community Director
SanDiego1K
MH370 Discussion and Speculation Thread
May 15, 2014, 3:20 am
#1726
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 15
Hishamuddin Hussein, Malaysia's acting Transport Minister published two charts on 1st May 2014 which show MH370 allegedly flying over the Malay Peninsula then rounding under Penang Island to fly VAMPI-MEKAR, crossing Aceh (which Indonesia denies happened).
So out of curiosity I mapped the times and co-ordinates of this flight track. The times come via an image presented to relatives at the Lido Hotel, Beijing on 21 March 2014, purported by Malaysia to show MH370's track on military radar at Butterworth.
Then I matched the time points to the track and guess what?
It actually proves that the satellite Burst Offset Frequency plot ("BOF chart") does not match the alleged flight.
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/h...ps4a51fbb3.jpg
For instance the BOF chart shows a frequency reduction between 18:25 UTC and 19:41UTC, indicating MH370 was flying away from the satellite.
Yet the map track shows the opposite that MH370 was allegedly flying towards the satellite... They can't both be true.
If however you accept the revised chart created by Mike Exner the opposite is true, that until some time around 18:25 UTC MH370 was flying away from the satellite towards the east (Vietnam) and only turned west some time after that.
So out of curiosity I mapped the times and co-ordinates of this flight track. The times come via an image presented to relatives at the Lido Hotel, Beijing on 21 March 2014, purported by Malaysia to show MH370's track on military radar at Butterworth.
Then I matched the time points to the track and guess what?
It actually proves that the satellite Burst Offset Frequency plot ("BOF chart") does not match the alleged flight.
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/h...ps4a51fbb3.jpg
For instance the BOF chart shows a frequency reduction between 18:25 UTC and 19:41UTC, indicating MH370 was flying away from the satellite.
Yet the map track shows the opposite that MH370 was allegedly flying towards the satellite... They can't both be true.
If however you accept the revised chart created by Mike Exner the opposite is true, that until some time around 18:25 UTC MH370 was flying away from the satellite towards the east (Vietnam) and only turned west some time after that.
May 19, 2014, 10:24 am
#1727
Used to be 'FTcadence'
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: SAN
Posts: 432
Newly Released Trailer for MH370 Movie Promises to Reveal the 'Untold Story'
At this year's Cannes Film Festival, director Rupesh Paul is pitching a movie about the disappearance of MH370; a move that he has described as telling "the untold story of the vanished Malaysian flight." What could have possibly inspired Paul to want to create a drama based on such recent, tragic events? Shortly after the jet's disappearance, he claims to have been contacted by a Malaysian journalist (and now movie investor) who told Paul a theory about what happened. When specifically asked if he thinks that any family members of the still missing MH370 passengers and crew will find the film insensitive, Paul told the Vanity interviewer that he didn't think so and that he would work to make sure no one was hurt because of his project. ...Yet the 90-second trailer released for the movie seems to cast some suspicion on a few passengers and crew members.
You can watch the trailer for yourself here: http://youtu.be/l4rKJaGQbcY
http://www.news.com.au/world/new-boo...-1226921857886
http://metro.co.uk/2014/05/18/movie-...-film-4732138/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-YouTube.html
My opinion: too soon. Far, far too soon.
You can watch the trailer for yourself here: http://youtu.be/l4rKJaGQbcY
http://www.news.com.au/world/new-boo...-1226921857886
http://metro.co.uk/2014/05/18/movie-...-film-4732138/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-YouTube.html
My opinion: too soon. Far, far too soon.
May 19, 2014, 10:59 pm
#1729
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Dubai
Posts: 3,301
Looks like they are (finally) going to release the Immarsat raw data:
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/19/wo...missing-plane/
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/19/wo...missing-plane/
May 20, 2014, 3:46 am
#1730
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: SW London
Programs: BAEC Silver; Hilton Diamond;a miscellany of other hotel non-statuses
Posts: 3,607
Do you mean that whether you take the positive numbers as presented or make them negative then they don't fit the whole journey?
I thought there were additional movement effects to take into account, such as some perturbation / eccentricity in the geo-stationary-ness of the satellite - did you account for those somehow?
I started crunching some of those numbers, but stopped when I reached the conclusion that because the Doppler effect measures shift along the line from the satellite to the plane and much of the that is the 40,000km above the Earth then there must be something I'm missing to give the frequency shift magnitude on the graphs. To me it looked like if you assume a truly geostationary fixed height then the plane must have large altitude change to give the shift along that line.
Last edited by NewbieRunner; May 20, 2014 at 5:07 am Reason: fixed quote tags
May 20, 2014, 6:48 am
#1731
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Location: MSY; 2-time FT Fantasy Football Champ, now in recovery.
Programs: AA lifetime GLD; UA Silver; Marriott LTTE; IHG Plat,
Posts: 14,518
Only read that briefly so may be misunderstanding you...
Do you mean that whether you take the positive numbers as presented or make them negative then they don't fit the whole journey?
I thought there were additional movement effects to take into account, such as some perturbation / eccentricity in the geo-stationary-ness of the satellite - did you account for those somehow?
I started crunching some of those numbers, but stopped when I reached the conclusion that because the Doppler effect measures shift along the line from the satellite to the plane and much of the that is the 40,000km above the Earth then there must be something I'm missing to give the frequency shift magnitude on the graphs. To me it looked like if you assume a truly geostationary fixed height then the plane must have large altitude change to give the shift along that line.
Do you mean that whether you take the positive numbers as presented or make them negative then they don't fit the whole journey?
I thought there were additional movement effects to take into account, such as some perturbation / eccentricity in the geo-stationary-ness of the satellite - did you account for those somehow?
I started crunching some of those numbers, but stopped when I reached the conclusion that because the Doppler effect measures shift along the line from the satellite to the plane and much of the that is the 40,000km above the Earth then there must be something I'm missing to give the frequency shift magnitude on the graphs. To me it looked like if you assume a truly geostationary fixed height then the plane must have large altitude change to give the shift along that line.
A very interesting read here from The Atlantic.
It's the best explanation I've seen of how the Immarsat data was crunched, how the conclusions were drawn, and what parts of the data remain problematic.
http://www.theatlantic.com/technolog...old-up/361826/
It's the best explanation I've seen of how the Immarsat data was crunched, how the conclusions were drawn, and what parts of the data remain problematic.
http://www.theatlantic.com/technolog...old-up/361826/
1. The satellites precise coordinates
The satellite in contact with Flight 370 was Inmarsats IOR satellite, parked in geostationary orbit above the Indian Ocean. The satellite is meant to be stationary, but its orbit has decayed somewhat, so that it actually rotates slightly around its previously fixed position. Its path is publicly available from the Center for Space Standards & Innovation.
The satellite in contact with Flight 370 was Inmarsats IOR satellite, parked in geostationary orbit above the Indian Ocean. The satellite is meant to be stationary, but its orbit has decayed somewhat, so that it actually rotates slightly around its previously fixed position. Its path is publicly available from the Center for Space Standards & Innovation.
May 21, 2014, 10:11 am
#1734
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ATL Lost Luggage
Programs: Kettle with Kryptonium Medallion Tags
Posts: 10,323
May 22, 2014, 3:30 am
#1736
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: BNE
Posts: 87
This could take a while . . .
It will be interesting to see what happens when a host of mathematicians pour over the Inmarsat data. I can't see them releasing anything they were not very sure of however. They have a lot of credence at stake here and a lot of money has been spent on their sayso.
It will be interesting to see what happens when a host of mathematicians pour over the Inmarsat data. I can't see them releasing anything they were not very sure of however. They have a lot of credence at stake here and a lot of money has been spent on their sayso.
Last edited by NewbieRunner; May 22, 2014 at 3:42 am Reason: removed unnecessary comments
May 23, 2014, 4:48 pm
#1737
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: ATL
Programs: Delta PlM, 1M
Posts: 6,365
This could take a while . . .
It will be interesting to see what happens when a host of mathematicians pour over the Inmarsat data. I can't see them releasing anything they were not very sure of however. They have a lot of credence at stake here and a lot of money has been spent on their sayso.
It will be interesting to see what happens when a host of mathematicians pour over the Inmarsat data. I can't see them releasing anything they were not very sure of however. They have a lot of credence at stake here and a lot of money has been spent on their sayso.
May 24, 2014, 2:30 am
#1738
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Germany, Austria
Programs: IHG Diamond Ambassador, ALL Silver,, Miles&More
Posts: 1,122
Blackbox: Wrong frequency? So what are they searching for?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...h-debacle.html
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/m...-1226928975742
http://www.focus.de/panorama/signale...d_3868743.html
http://translate.google.com/translat...d_3868743.html
FOCUS Report today: This is beside SPIEGEL the leading serious political magazin in Germany:
Estimated radio signals wrong
Experts: underwater signals never came from the MH370 Blackbox
Friday, 05.23.2014, 18:51
Was the underwater search for the black box of missing flight MH370 doomed to failure? Acoustic experts practiced against the Australian news site "Courier Mail" sharp criticism of those responsible. You are almost certain that the discovered in the Pacific signals do not come from the black boxes of the aircraft: so are both the wrong frequencies, as well as the spatial distances between the signals. The blame for the faulty search measures they see, especially in politics.
Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott had announced on April 11: "We are pretty sure that we can narrow down the location of the black box flight recorder is accurate to a few kilometers." A detailed analysis of the received signals was at that time not yet been performed. The chief coordinator of the search, Air Force General Angus Houston, have therefore granted after Abbott's speech: "We did not have a breakthrough in the search for MH370".
Strong doubts about the black box theory
The experts criticized over the "Courier Mail" especially that the signals in the 33.3-kilohertz range were while underwater beacon transmitting on a frequency of 37.5 kilohertz. In addition, the signals were collected 30 kilometers away from each other and at a distance of four days. "I knew immediately they were not from the aircraft transmitters come," said a scientist.
The coordination center've discovered other mysterious signals. The analysis results were not published, however, weeks later. "You will not go public with it because they do not know what they have to do it", said an expert of the newspaper. Probably originated the signals from other sources of human origin.
Against this background, it is understandable why the diving robot "Bluefin 21", in the 4000 meters depth search for the plane-wreck for weeks, had no success. "Bluefin 21" to continue his dives until 28 May and then replaced by another underwater search vessel. What really happened to the missing Boeing and its 239 inmates, anyway remains open .
Why could Australian JORN radar system not detect the plane if it came down in the search area?
http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/55333...m#.U4Beke9ZrX6
Has this ever been further investigated:
http://wivb.com/2014/04/24/tonawanda...ry/?hpt=us_bn7
Ever heard more about this fact? Report by BILD, the leading German newspaper:
http://www.bild.de/news/ausland/flug...0302.bild.html
Translated webpage:
http://translate.google.com/translat...0302.bild.html
German text:
Fiel die verschollene Boeing der Malaysian Airlines (239 Insassen) doch einem Terroranschlag zum Opfer?
Das behauptet der inhaftierte Terrorist Saajid Badat (34). Der Brite wurde in einem Gerichtsverfahren gegen Osama bin Ladens Schwiegersohn Aby Ghaith (48) zugeschaltet. Badat behauptet, er habe Kenntnis von einer bis zu fünf Mann starken Terrorzelle in Malaysia. Und er will diese sogar mit einer Schuhbombe ausgestattet haben: „Ich glaube, damit wollten sie in das Cockpit eindringen.“
Translated text:
Fell lost Boeing of the Malaysian Airlines (239 passenger) victim to a Terrorist attack?
These Claims imprisoned terrorist Saajid Badat (34). The Briton was in a court case against Osama bin Laden's son-in-law Aby Ghaith (48) enabled. Badat said he only had knowledge of an up to five-man terrorist cell in Malaysia. And he wants to have provided this even with a shoe bomb: "I think that they wanted to enter the cockpit."
Last edited by submonte; May 24, 2014 at 4:04 am
May 27, 2014, 12:48 pm
#1739
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: BOS & SFO
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold
Posts: 675
I'm pretty new to the satellite data and the Inmarsat data is really confusing. Can someone help me to make sense of it?
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/...inmarsat-data/
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/...inmarsat-data/
May 28, 2014, 5:03 am
#1740
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 80
Old news now but it was on http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/...1b9a33ef6e4261