Rules for Involuntary & long-term Schedule Changes

Old Dec 17, 2018, 9:54 am
  #91  
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The operating carrier is irrelevant as the flight time changes entitle OP to one of three choices under EC 261/2004: 1. A refund, 2. rebooking under similar circumstances, 3. rebooking at a later date. By May, XQ, not LH, performs the route and those two flights are the sole nonstops. Other carriers all include lengthy detours or connection times, including TK (which would offer *A privileges).

Unfortunately for OP, there is no requirement in the Regulation that LH rebook on a carrier which provides lounge and other amenities and thus the XQ flight appears to be the best available. OP is certainly entitled to a refund and should likely price out a new ticket connecting to TK and determine whether that might even be cheaper than what he has now. If so, he may have his TK flight and save some money.

OP is certainly entitled to a refund of any extra seat fees he paid to LH which are lost through the transfer to XQ.
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Old Dec 17, 2018, 10:26 am
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Originally Posted by Often1
The operating carrier is irrelevant as the flight time changes entitle OP to one of three choices under EC 261/2004: 1. A refund, 2. rebooking under similar circumstances, 3. rebooking at a later date. By May, XQ, not LH, performs the route and those two flights are the sole nonstops. Other carriers all include lengthy detours or connection times, including TK (which would offer *A privileges).

Unfortunately for OP, there is no requirement in the Regulation that LH rebook on a carrier which provides lounge and other amenities and thus the XQ flight appears to be the best available. OP is certainly entitled to a refund and should likely price out a new ticket connecting to TK and determine whether that might even be cheaper than what he has now. If so, he may have his TK flight and save some money.

OP is certainly entitled to a refund of any extra seat fees he paid to LH which are lost through the transfer to XQ.
+1

I would, however, try to have them rebook me on an alternative flight while stating that flying on sunexpress is unacceptable. Preferably you could try to do some creative routing that earns you more segments or miles, but be aware that you're at the mercy of LH for rebooking. If the offered rebooking options don't please you go for the refund. and buy another ticket via TK. If that's too expensive, you should consider flying as currently booked.
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Old Dec 17, 2018, 10:36 am
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I’ve been in a similar position with another airline and was offered a refund or rebooked flights. Although due to the notice given, the choice of alternatives was limited.
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Old Dec 17, 2018, 10:48 am
  #94  
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Changing an operating carrier is a breach of contract. I am sure I read something about a change of operating carrier, or it needing to be clear during booking as part of a Regulation of some kind.

I have always been given the right to change flights if the operating carrier changed after booking.
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Old Dec 17, 2018, 10:58 am
  #95  
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Originally Posted by hugolover
Changing an operating carrier is a breach of contract. I am sure I read something about a change of operating carrier, or it needing to be clear during booking as part of a Regulation of some kind.

I have always been given the right to change flights if the operating carrier changed after booking.
It's irrelevant. You are thinking of US law. It would provide for a cancellation with a full refund. EC 261/2004, already discussed above, does the same. None of these help in a reroute on a *A carrier so that OP may have lounge access.
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Old Dec 17, 2018, 11:05 am
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Originally Posted by Often1
It's irrelevant. You are thinking of US law. It would provide for a cancellation with a full refund. EC 261/2004, already discussed above, does the same. None of these help in a reroute on a *A carrier so that OP may have lounge access.
I think EC261/2004 also mandates that the customer be informed of the cancellation of their flight, whether by phone or email, before being rebooked and the customer has a bit of a say on what gets offered. I think though that LH or Travel Agent should be trying to rebook onto LH first then other *A before other carriers. It also depends who flies that route.
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Old Dec 17, 2018, 11:27 am
  #97  
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Originally Posted by Often1
It's irrelevant. You are thinking of US law. It would provide for a cancellation with a full refund. EC 261/2004, already discussed above, does the same. None of these help in a reroute on a *A carrier so that OP may have lounge access.
A material change in a contract, such as a change in an operating carrier doesn't necessarily give rise for a refund in Europe. It would be damages. Most likely the difference between the price paid and the itinerary closely-matching what the OP contracted for. Swapping a LH flight for a LCC flight is a material change. I've no knowledge of US law, and the itinerary doesn't touch the US. Of the European airlines I've dealt with, they will rebook if there is a change in the operating carrier whether there is also a schedule change or not.

I see that the OP has also had a schedule change which is why you mention EC261 and that is obviously the easier leg to lean on.

LH has a department that deals with this. Though their CS is so bad these days it won't be easy to get rebooked.
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Old Dec 18, 2018, 2:03 am
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EU 2111/2005 is the regulation that deals with the disclosing of the operating carrier and affords the passenger the right to ask for a change/refund of the trip when a significant change happens. I would suggest the OP to take a deep breath, find a suitable *A alternative from YVR to ADB that suits him/her best and ask the OTA to change the ticket to this alternative. The OTA has fight the fight with LH, which is possible using the ATC module. With such significant change the issuing office (ie the OTA) can change the reservation and ask LH to endorse the change to reissue.

examples of alternative routing:

Code:
TN01MAYYVRADB/A*A                                                               
** AMADEUS TIMETABLE - TN ** ADB ADNAN MENDERES.TR             01MAY19 08MAY19  
 1LH:AC9432  146  YVR M MUC 2  1825    1320+1 0 CONNECT MUC     359             
  XQ:LH9576  146  MUC 1 ADB    1420+1  1800+1 0 02MAY19 30MAY19 738 13:35       
 2AC:LH6527  D    YVR M FRA 1  1325    0805+1 0 CONNECT FRA     788             
     LH1298  D    FRA 1 IST I  0905+1  1300+1 0 CONNECT IST     32A             
     TK2326  D    IST D ADB D  1500+1  1615+1 0 01MAY19 31MAY19 73H 16:50       
 3   AC 840  D    YVR M FRA 1  1325    0805+1 0 CONNECT FRA     788             
     LH1298  D    FRA 1 IST I  0905+1  1300+1 0 CONNECT IST     32A             
     TK2326  D    IST D ADB D  1500+1  1615+1 0 01MAY19 31MAY19 73H 16:50       
 4LH:AC9432  6    YVR M MUC 2  1825    1320+1 0 CONNECT MUC     359             
  LH:A31806  6    MUC 2 ATH    1515+1  1840+1 0 CONNECT ATH     321             
  OA*A3 996  6    ATH   ADB I  2045+1  2140+1 0 04MAY19 25MAY19 DH4 17:15
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Old Dec 18, 2018, 6:13 am
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Originally Posted by hugolover
A material change in a contract, such as a change in an operating carrier doesn't necessarily give rise for a refund in Europe. It would be damages. Most likely the difference between the price paid and the itinerary closely-matching what the OP contracted for. Swapping a LH flight for a LCC flight is a material change. I've no knowledge of US law, and the itinerary doesn't touch the US. Of the European airlines I've dealt with, they will rebook if there is a change in the operating carrier whether there is also a schedule change or not.

I see that the OP has also had a schedule change which is why you mention EC261 and that is obviously the easier leg to lean on.

LH has a department that deals with this. Though their CS is so bad these days it won't be easy to get rebooked.
The flight has been cancelled because LH dont run the route anymore at that time so EU261 applies. Nothing else kicks in because theres no operating carrier change.
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Old Dec 19, 2018, 2:25 am
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Originally Posted by Often1
It's irrelevant. You are thinking of US law. It would provide for a cancellation with a full refund. EC 261/2004, already discussed above, does the same. None of these help in a reroute on a *A carrier so that OP may have lounge access.
Where is stated? Even under US law. Assuming an UA flight is changed to an UAX flight (Assuming flight times stay the same), I doubt that this is a breach of contract.
under EU law it is definitely not,.
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Old Dec 19, 2018, 1:28 pm
  #101  
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Originally Posted by athome
Where is stated? Even under US law. Assuming an UA flight is changed to an UAX flight (Assuming flight times stay the same), I doubt that this is a breach of contract.
under EU law it is definitely not,.
not relevant here, but UA --> UAX most definitely entitles you to a free change to another routing
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Old Dec 20, 2018, 7:02 pm
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Just got rebooked today, OTA could not change at their end and had to go back & forth with LH but outbound changed to YVR-FRA-IST-ADB, first 2 legs now on LH and last on TK. Selected seats online, now just got to get prior fees paid for seat selections refunded, which took months when LH changed aircraft on us in 2017.
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Old Dec 20, 2018, 7:26 pm
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Originally Posted by cfischer
not relevant here, but UA --> UAX most definitely entitles you to a free change to another routing
To be precise, US law does not require a free change. Rather, it permits the passenger a full refund without penalty.

UA, as a matter of policy, will rebook.
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Old Dec 22, 2018, 9:44 am
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Originally Posted by tobegold
Just got rebooked today, OTA could not change at their end and had to go back & forth with LH but outbound changed to YVR-FRA-IST-ADB, first 2 legs now on LH and last on TK. Selected seats online, now just got to get prior fees paid for seat selections refunded, which took months when LH changed aircraft on us in 2017.
that's good news! Glad you persisted and got it changed!
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Old Jul 23, 2019, 11:50 am
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LH Schedule Change - Rebooking conditions

Hi all,

Today I got a notification about a schedule change in my booking (MAD-MUC-ADB). Basically the MUC-ADB flight has been moved back 30min, reducing the connection from 2h15min to 1h45min. In theory, that will be good news, because it means I arrive early to ADB and 1h45min is more than enough to transfer in MUC (I've used MUC before). What make me nervous is that there is only a MUC-ADB flight a day with LH and that is the last one of the day. And I don't want to lose a day of my precious holiday because of a delay.

It is worth a shot asking LH to be rebooked MAD-IST-ADB with TK (A* partner)? I know is a very long shot, but there is plenty of IST-ADB flights available even during the night, and why not, I will get a better service. Btw my ticket is paid business class (fare P).

Thanks in advance for the advice.
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