Rules for Involuntary & long-term Schedule Changes

Old Jun 26, 2018, 4:16 pm
  #76  
 
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Late Schedule Change - EU261?

Hi. I've generally traveled TPac so EU regulations are a little new to me - any help appreciated.



Currently booked YYZ - FRA - NBO for 30 June. AC ticket with first leg in Y+ with AC, second in plain old Y opearted by LH.

Today (T-3) LH sent through a schedule change moving FRA-NBO
Old: LH590 11:10 dept - 20:10 arrival
New: LH590 15:35 departure - 00:35 arrival.

Essentially the flight has been "delayed" 4 hours and 25 minutes for a total 9+ hour layover. This appears to qualify for EU261 compensation. Given the short notice and time of year it is difficult finding confirmable space for a significantly better option - while not ideal by adding an extra layover in YUL or VIE I can get the total travel time down somewhat.

The question is does reissuing this ticket with AC on alternate flights (now YYZ-YUL-ZRH(LX)-NBO) negate the ability to claim EU261 compensation for this flight? Because flight number didn't change and it was merely "delayed" or must we travel on the inevitably delayed flight to be eligible? Does anyone have any experience with this?
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Old Jun 27, 2018, 3:19 am
  #77  
 
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The first important question is - when do you arrive to NBO on the rebooked flights? The second, at what time you have to leave YYZ on the new itinerary? Those two answers will be important to determining if you are or are not eligible...
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Old Jun 27, 2018, 4:32 am
  #78  
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If you rebook the flights you will not arrive delayed at final destination, i.e. you will forfeit any right to compensation for delay. Had the flight been cancelled it would be different.
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Old Jun 27, 2018, 6:38 am
  #79  
 
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Originally Posted by vbroucek
The first important question is - when do you arrive to NBO on the rebooked flights? The second, at what time you have to leave YYZ on the new itinerary? Those two answers will be important to determining if you are or are not eligible...
Thanks for taking a look! The most likely earlier flights would be a day earlier. Depending on the amount of hand-holding and insisting I do with Air Canada it might be possible to leave at 2pm on the same day (1h35 earlier than previous). Are there any rules that I should be aware of when trying to find reprotection to not void the EU261 claim for limited time savings?
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Old Jun 27, 2018, 6:39 am
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Originally Posted by SK AAR
If you rebook the flights you will not arrive delayed at final destination, i.e. you will forfeit any right to compensation for delay. Had the flight been cancelled it would be different.
Rebooking would require me to leave substantially earlier and likely make additional stops. At some point is a prescheduled "delay" of 5 hours not tantamount to cancellation?
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Old Jun 27, 2018, 6:50 am
  #81  
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Ask AC to move you to AC876, then you only have a 4 hours layover in FRA. They still have 3 seats open in PE:


Code:
AN30JUNYYZNBO/AAC,LH590/KW
** AMADEUS AVAILABILITY - AN ** NBO NAIROBI.KE 3 SA 30JUN 0000
1 AC 876 O3 E0 N0 /YYZ 1 FRA 1 2140 1110+1E0/789
CL*LH 590 GL EL NL /FRA 1 NBO 1535+1 0035+2E0/343 IR 19:55
Alternatively plead that you have a significant schedule change and that they should rebook you onto the shortest *A alternative via ADD or ZRH:

Code:
AN30JUNYYZNBO/KW,Y/A*A
** AMADEUS AVAILABILITY - AN ** NBO NAIROBI.KE 3 SA 30JUN 0000
1 ET 503 Y1 G1 S0 B0 M0 K0 L0 /YYZ 1 ADD 2 1100 0700+1E0/77L
V0 H0 U0 Q0 T0 E0
ET 302 Y1 G1 S0 B0 M0 K0 L0 /ADD 2 NBO1C 0815+1 1025+1E0/738 16:25
V0 H0 U0 Q0 T0 E0
2 AC 878 O0 E0 N0 Y4 B4 M4 U3 /YYZ 1 ZRH 1825 0750+1E0/77W
H3 Q1
LX 294 Y2 BL ML UL HL QL /ZRH NBO1E 0955+1 1840+1E0/333 17:15
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Old Jun 27, 2018, 7:31 am
  #82  
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Originally Posted by timothytimnz
At some point is a prescheduled "delay" of 5 hours not tantamount to cancellation?
No, the rules are not like that. A delayed flight is not a cancellation under EU Reg. 261/04. It is correct that after 3-4 hours of delay you have the same rights to comp. as if the flight was cancelled - but is not a cancellation.

You should bear in mind that any claim under EU Reg. 261/04 is against LH as actual/performing carrier rather than AC. Once you are rebooked, LH is off the hook (as from LH point of view you are no longer on LH590 and hence not delayed). I second the advice below to try to get rebooked to AC876 to FRA or via ZRH with LX (no Y+ is available with ET via ADD but is certainly an excellent connection). Good luck!

Last edited by SK AAR; Jun 27, 2018 at 7:40 am
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Old Jun 27, 2018, 6:16 pm
  #83  
 
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I appreciate the detail responses! Sound as though the later departure with AC876 + compensation is the best shot in this situation - thanks again!
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Old Dec 17, 2018, 12:33 am
  #84  
 
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LH switched flight to Sunexpress

UThe last leg of our outbound flight from YVR - FRA - MUC - ADB (Izmir) in May was changed from an LH operated flight to Sunexpress operated flight from MUC to ADB. I had paid for exit row seats on the LH operated flight.

I called the LH service center 3 times to get my flights changed - what a bunch of lazy and useless people, telling me there was no change, having to push them to review my flights then having them admit there was a change, and then saying they cannot do anything, refusing to connect me to a supervisor.

I have read reviews of Sunexpress: no legroom (I am 198 cm tall), buy on board everything including water, and only LH senators can reserve seats ahead of the flight, and since they are not Star Alliance I will not get any benefits (lounge access, free bags) or earn miles. Flight arrives more than 2 hours later than original LH flight and now have more than 4.5 hour layover in MUC (without lounge access as not *A operated flight).

How do I get LH to rebook me, LH no longer flies to ADB per the reps, want to be on LH/TK or other *A To ADB, No problem on return flight as all LH flying out of IST. I booked through third party who blame LH and say they cannot do anything and to contact LH. Any compensation due from LH. LH did not offer to refund seat fees.

Advice appreciated.

Thanks,
Tobegold


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Old Dec 17, 2018, 2:09 am
  #85  
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Originally Posted by tobegold
UThe last leg of our outbound flight from YVR - FRA - MUC - ADB (Izmir) in May was changed from an LH operated flight to Sunexpress operated flight from MUC to ADB. I had paid for exit row seats on the LH operated flight.

I called the LH service center 3 times to get my flights changed - what a bunch of lazy and useless people, telling me there was no change, having to push them to review my flights then having them admit there was a change, and then saying they cannot do anything, refusing to connect me to a supervisor.

I have read reviews of Sunexpress: no legroom (I am 198 cm tall), buy on board everything including water, and only LH senators can reserve seats ahead of the flight, and since they are not Star Alliance I will not get any benefits (lounge access, free bags) or earn miles. Flight arrives more than 2 hours later than original LH flight and now have more than 4.5 hour layover in MUC (without lounge access as not *A operated flight).

How do I get LH to rebook me, LH no longer flies to ADB per the reps, want to be on LH/TK or other *A To ADB, No problem on return flight as all LH flying out of IST. I booked through third party who blame LH and say they cannot do anything and to contact LH. Any compensation due from LH. LH did not offer to refund seat fees.

Advice appreciated.

Thanks,
Tobegold


Do you have a picture of your original routing (with the LH flight)?

Lufthansa doesnt fly to Izmir and only offers a codeshare (lh9576) atm, which is confusing since in their shedule it shows two daily flights operated by Lufthansa and no codeshare operated by Sunexpress...
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Last edited by Nick Art; Dec 17, 2018 at 2:16 am
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Old Dec 17, 2018, 2:16 am
  #86  
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I don't think this would be a large enough schedule change for EC261 protections, plus it sounds like you were notified more than two weeks before the flight.

If your OLTA didn't inform you that it was a codeshare operated by ....., you *might* have some recourse. Perhaps you could convince them to lef you rebook the ticket as a RT to/from IST rather than the open jaw with ADB.
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Old Dec 17, 2018, 2:40 am
  #87  
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
I don't think this would be a large enough schedule change for EC261 protections, plus it sounds like you were notified more than two weeks before the flight.

If your OLTA didn't inform you that it was a codeshare operated by ....., you *might* have some recourse. Perhaps you could convince them to lef you rebook the ticket as a RT to/from IST rather than the open jaw with ADB.
It depends weither he was booked on a LH flight or a codeshare in the first place. But even with early shedule changes there is a right for rebooking on another way (sometimes) and even cancellation and refunding.
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Old Dec 17, 2018, 2:46 am
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Originally Posted by Nick Art

It depends weither he was booked on a LH flight or a codeshare in the first place. But even with early shedule changes there is a right for rebooking on another way (sometimes) and even cancellation and refunding.
I agree, but based on what we know about the current situation, it will be a tough fight if OP can't prove he/she wasn't told it was a codeshare.
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Old Dec 17, 2018, 4:14 am
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
I agree, but based on what we know about the current situation, it will be a tough fight if OP can't prove he/she wasn't told it was a codeshare.
I think this may have something to do with it: Both the booklet as well as the online timetable search tool show two Lufthansa fligths to Izmir today. But none of them are actually sheduled to fly (as per flightradar and munich airport departure).



Note that the subexpress flights dont show up.

The last day those two flights were operated was back in October.
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Old Dec 17, 2018, 9:36 am
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My flight was originally booked on a LH operated flight as I had the LH confirmation code and was able to select and pay for exit row seats. I received notice of a schedule change last week, this being for the MUC - ADB sector and that disclosed the flight schedule change and operated by Sunexpress information. Aircraft type also changed from airbus to Boeing 737-800 (no issue with aircraft types), LH website does not show seating plan and says only Senators can select seats on Sunexpress flights. Flight has LH flight code and is listed as operated by Sunexpress.

Flights were booked in August for travel in May, definitely LH segment not Sunexpress per LH website when booked and hard copies printed from LH emails. Third party booking site provided accurate information as to booking which also agreed to LH website. LH has now stopped operating this route and has switched me on to the Sunexpress operated flight without offering any alternatives, ie FRA IST ADB or MUC IST ADB on some combination of LH/TK operated flights.
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