Xandrios

They won't. Frequent flyers leaving means a large percentage of profits lost, which they will trying to fill with more cost-cutting or additional fees.

As for the second bag for elites, I can make an educated guess as to what the fee will be: 55 euro. That would be in line with the current rule:

Current pricing:
1st: Free
2nd: 55 euro
3rd: 200 euro

As an elite one gets the first two bags free. The 3rd will require the fee for a 3rd bag, thus 200 Euro. Changing the price for the 1st bag (from 0 to 15) will not change that policy I am afraid..

Kölner

One thing I never understand: Why does (formerly) "Premium-Airlines" like KLM, Lufthansa or Delta try to be like Ryanair or Easyjet? Why don't the try to be like Ethiad or Emirates?

irishguy28

If you can come up with a way for the legacy airlines to reduce their unit costs and source funding to keep them operating for years at a time without turning a profit (Etihad reported its first profit only last year - admittedly only after 8 years of operation) and can find ways to neutralise the other inherent advantages that the Gulf airlines enjoy (the far cheaper staff costs (fewer senior staff, far more flexible working conditions, no unions to negotiate with, weaker employee rights, etc etc); the ability to build new airports on a whim, no slot restrictions/nighttime curfews; a geographical location that is at least as good, if not better than, Europe for many long haul connecting journeys [Gulf Airlines can fly non-stop to ALL inhabited continents, which European airlines cannot do]), then you should walk into a very senior level job in any airline, and the very best of luck to you!

Henry III

But the real problem in this instance is competition from European LCCs. I can understand - and sympathise with - the problems KLM (and AF) management have to face in terms of revenue management, but small-time, piecemeal tamperings with operational issues like luggage fees won't fix anything!

The real source of the cost disadvantage is staff costs: legacy airlines have remuneration packages (salaries, pensions, perks, etc) that were 'negotiated' in the days before LCCs made their mark on air travel, and the Trades Unions (both KLM and AF have very strong ones to deal with) aren't the least bit interested in helping their companies, if that means staff losing their (rather excellent) benefits. Just compare the salary/conditions of a KLM or AF Flight Attendant with that of his/her equivalent in easyJet (or, more extreme still, in Ryanair - which is borderline in breach of EU employment legislation).

AF seems to be starting to address this problem by furtively hiving off its short-haul operations into a subsidiary company (HOP!), which, a few years down the road, may have drastically altered contracts/salaries for its staff.

KLM don't seem to be doing this (yet) - but there has been talk of moving all S/H staff to the "Cityhopper" pay scales.

In the meantime, we can expect more of these seemingly desperate pruning measures, that can only ever erode the benefits offered to frequent flyers.

-- Henry

irishguy28

I know. I was trying to show why trying to go up the food chain - competing with the Gulf airlines as proposed by our Cologne correspondent - was something of a red herring.

Henry III

It's actually a Double-Whammy for Europe's Legacy Airlines: LCC competition on short-haul and Gulf-State-Sponsored carriers on long-haul.

First casualties of this war - Frequent Flyer Benefits!

-- H

ajs123

With all seriousness, I think the next logical step is to declare flights within the EU/EEA as domestic (say in spirit of fostering European integration) and therefore allow lounge access only to J and full Y pacs on these 'domestic' flights, every one else on 'domestic' flights needs to pay. This will certainly solve the overcrowding issue and enhance this source of ancillary revenue.

In case of a long haul connection, the current rules would be retained (for now) before Crown lounges turn into clubs with membership fees, say in 2016. The possibility of granting 25% and 50% discounts for silver and golds will certainly considered in order to reward loyalty (i.e. being trapped in an inefficient equilibrium) and reaffirming paxs' requests to have the freedom to choose from an a la carte menu of services.

johan rebel

The unions managed to put a stop to that, just as they managed to prevent the tightening of the very generous regulations governing leave etc (WRR). All KL employees (not only cabin crew) will lose two days of annual vacation (of which one only temporarily, I believe). New cabin crew will be be paid less, and their salaries will rise more slowly (the unions made sure to look after their current members there), but the details are still to be agreed on. Until then, KL is keeping the Cityhopper option open to maintain some leverage over the unions. All this comes nowhere near seriously cutting crew costs as much as inevitably will be necessary. No longer handing out free handbags to cabin crew is just tinkering around the edges.

Look at SK, they've finally more or less bludgeoned the unions into submission and imposed fairly drastic cuts to pay and conditions, yet the airline's future still hangs in the balance.

Johan

johan rebel

If this idea is implemented, we now at least know whom we should blame.

Johan

Kölner

Doesn't sounds good.
Another next step would be to take Money for carry-on baggage.

I hate to pay for every thing extra money!!! If I want an Airline like that, I fly Easyjet.

But maybe in some years, a big Airline from Asia invests money in KLM and Air France and make them both Premium-Airlines again.
Btw. I like the way of Air Berlin: With the help of Etihad they now get one of the best Business-Seats of the Market. ^

ajs123

Obviously! I will also volunteer to stand in front of one of the Crown Lounges to prevent nagging Nancies (aka frequent flyers) from entering In return, I expect that KL will grant me for this cost saver a Club 2000 card... What is more likely though is that I will switch to the Hungarian World Airways.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/other...d-airways.html

irishguy28

That's not going to happen, at least not on short-haul journeys.

Passengers requiring the "Premium" experience can buy a business-class ticket (though it is indeed a shame that the onboard business experience in Europe is no longer differentiated in terms of the hard product. It will never go back to the old days, though, trust me).

Just look at the US, where Virgin America is struggling despite the kudos that it receives from travellers and critics alike. There may be people who are willing to pay a premium for a better-than-average experience, but these days airtravel is just a commodity product, and there just isn't a sustainable market for "luxury"-tinted air travel on short haul routes.

The market conditions in Europe just won't support a "premium" product of the type you are implying (I presume you mean more than just having a free baggage allowance as "premium"). Perhaps the time will come, too, when the Gulf and South-East Asian airlines are seeing at least their short-haul traffic being cannibalised by low cost competitors (though for the Gulf airlines this is unlikely, as the main superconnectors are instead focusing on their long-haul networks) and have to respond in a similar way to the European airlines who are much further along that curve.

jackylek

Is doesnt help much if we just complaining in the forum here... better to take action so KL / AF see that their FF traveller can join force together. SAS Eurobonus change their milage accrual from 25% to 100% points system again, because they realize many of their FF traveller didnt care much about loyal to SAS with the low milage accrual. One person cant do much alone , but if we stand together ... pretty sure KL / AF will do something . Not just about this luggage new rule, but that the whole airline service and their Frequent Flyer Program is just going wrong direction . Is turning to a LCC model what AF and KL is doing .

psollitt

Just spoke to FB .. And according to the agent i spoke with , They HAVE heard the rumours about elite plus members loosing all free lounge access on European flights in economy so only paid lounge access ... But no decision has finally been made regarding this .. I cannot believe they would be THAT stupid !!!! Can they ???

Gajan

I doubt that is going to happen to be honest as that would go against Skyteam policy..