Mar 11, 2020, 10:13 am
Last edit by: Ocn Vw 1K
In order to reduce noise in the Coronavirus / Covid-19 : general fact-based reporting thread, and to create a central place to invite any member to ask a basic question about the impact of COVID-19 on travel, your moderators have decided to open this separate "lounge" thread for related discussion that isn't strictly fact-based reporting.
Any member who can provide a constructive, helpful answer to a question; or post constructively in reply to a member's point-of-view, is welcome to post.
All FT rules apply, including avoiding personalized, snarky, political, other off-topic, commercial, and repeatedly disruptive content.
Discussion of general economic impacts of Covid-19 belongs in the OMNI forum, not here.
Discussion and critique of political/government actions to aid the economy or which is far more political than related to COVID-19 is for the OMNI/PR forum, not here.
This is a protocol for posting adopted by the forum Moderator team:Please follow this protocol, based on FlyerTalk Rules and long-standing FlyerTalk best practices. Doing so will help keep the thread open, and allow our moderator team to aid members, rather than having to resort to discipline.
•Constructive, respectful posts, views, opinions, questions, and replies, related to the topic are welcome. Avoid commenting on members personally, or posting off-topic or political messages.
•While respectful disagreement of a posted view is allowed, don’t call-out posters to prove their points. FlyerTalk has never required discussion standards at the level of a Ph.D. dissertation defense, or a trial court witness cross-examination.
•After a reasonable exchange of views on a point, please yield the floor so that others may bring up different topics, questions or points.
•Especially important in this time of pandemic, when normal life and travel have been upended: please take regular breaks from the thread.
Please stay healthy,
your FT Coronavirus and Travel Moderator Team.
Any member who can provide a constructive, helpful answer to a question; or post constructively in reply to a member's point-of-view, is welcome to post.
All FT rules apply, including avoiding personalized, snarky, political, other off-topic, commercial, and repeatedly disruptive content.
Discussion of general economic impacts of Covid-19 belongs in the OMNI forum, not here.
Discussion and critique of political/government actions to aid the economy or which is far more political than related to COVID-19 is for the OMNI/PR forum, not here.
This is a protocol for posting adopted by the forum Moderator team:Please follow this protocol, based on FlyerTalk Rules and long-standing FlyerTalk best practices. Doing so will help keep the thread open, and allow our moderator team to aid members, rather than having to resort to discipline.
•Constructive, respectful posts, views, opinions, questions, and replies, related to the topic are welcome. Avoid commenting on members personally, or posting off-topic or political messages.
•While respectful disagreement of a posted view is allowed, don’t call-out posters to prove their points. FlyerTalk has never required discussion standards at the level of a Ph.D. dissertation defense, or a trial court witness cross-examination.
•After a reasonable exchange of views on a point, please yield the floor so that others may bring up different topics, questions or points.
•Especially important in this time of pandemic, when normal life and travel have been upended: please take regular breaks from the thread.
Please stay healthy,
your FT Coronavirus and Travel Moderator Team.
COVID-19: Lounge thread for thoughts, concerns and questions
Mar 17, 2020, 11:11 am
#736
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: RNO
Programs: AA/DL/UA
Posts: 10,780
No, millions and millions of people (just in the U.S.) have been "infected" with fear, hysteria and panic. Very very few have actually been infected and only a handful have died.
The number of people who have already been affected by the actions of our so-called leaders who shut down every business they can has hurt far more people than this stupid virus could ever hope to accomplish.
I'm off work for the rest of the week due to crashing demand. That means less money for me to spend elsewhere, thus spreading the disease (a disease of massive economic disruption).
I am so angry, and sad, at the overreaction and the unfounded fear that we will all die if too many people go to the hospital, that I would sign up to be infected with the coronavirus if everyone else would calm down and carry on with their lives as before. Wash your hands and stay away from sick people... that's free. Staying at home and doing nothing will cause millions of people to go into bankruptcy, homelessness, and starvation. Saying that the cure is worse than the disease is a serious understatement. It's like getting the cold and taking a medicine for it that gives you cancer. Yay no more sniffling, but you lose all your muscle and face years of torture.
The number of people who have already been affected by the actions of our so-called leaders who shut down every business they can has hurt far more people than this stupid virus could ever hope to accomplish.
I'm off work for the rest of the week due to crashing demand. That means less money for me to spend elsewhere, thus spreading the disease (a disease of massive economic disruption).
I am so angry, and sad, at the overreaction and the unfounded fear that we will all die if too many people go to the hospital, that I would sign up to be infected with the coronavirus if everyone else would calm down and carry on with their lives as before. Wash your hands and stay away from sick people... that's free. Staying at home and doing nothing will cause millions of people to go into bankruptcy, homelessness, and starvation. Saying that the cure is worse than the disease is a serious understatement. It's like getting the cold and taking a medicine for it that gives you cancer. Yay no more sniffling, but you lose all your muscle and face years of torture.
Mar 17, 2020, 11:15 am
#737
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
No, millions and millions of people (just in the U.S.) have been "infected" with fear, hysteria and panic. Very very few have actually been infected and only a handful have died.
The number of people who have already been affected by the actions of our so-called leaders who shut down every business they can has hurt far more people than this stupid virus could ever hope to accomplish.
I'm off work for the rest of the week due to crashing demand. That means less money for me to spend elsewhere, thus spreading the disease (a disease of massive economic disruption).
I am so angry, and sad, at the overreaction and the unfounded fear that we will all die if too many people go to the hospital, that I would sign up to be infected with the coronavirus if everyone else would calm down and carry on with their lives as before. Wash your hands and stay away from sick people... that's free. Staying at home and doing nothing will cause millions of people to go into bankruptcy, homelessness, and starvation. Saying that the cure is worse than the disease is a serious understatement. It's like getting the cold and taking a medicine for it that gives you cancer. Yay no more sniffling, but you lose all your muscle and face years of torture.
The number of people who have already been affected by the actions of our so-called leaders who shut down every business they can has hurt far more people than this stupid virus could ever hope to accomplish.
I'm off work for the rest of the week due to crashing demand. That means less money for me to spend elsewhere, thus spreading the disease (a disease of massive economic disruption).
I am so angry, and sad, at the overreaction and the unfounded fear that we will all die if too many people go to the hospital, that I would sign up to be infected with the coronavirus if everyone else would calm down and carry on with their lives as before. Wash your hands and stay away from sick people... that's free. Staying at home and doing nothing will cause millions of people to go into bankruptcy, homelessness, and starvation. Saying that the cure is worse than the disease is a serious understatement. It's like getting the cold and taking a medicine for it that gives you cancer. Yay no more sniffling, but you lose all your muscle and face years of torture.
And, yes, I am concerned that the economic damage from this situation will have adverse consequences for the healthcare system too. But that’s one of the concerns that are part of this situation, and not the only one. There are some great books and papers written on the various impacts the Black Death had on human development. This isn’t the Black Death, but there are lessons to be learned by studying history and not discounting the damage that can be done by spreading diseases.
Mar 17, 2020, 11:23 am
#738
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,131
Maybe I'm not smart enough to fully understand the problems we face. I get slowing the curve so medical providers aren't completely overwhelmed and limiting movement/contact for a couple of weeks. But what happens after a few weeks? If we try to resume our normal lives at that point won't we just repeat the infection rates with growing numbers exposed to the virus? Repeat....Repeat......
Mar 17, 2020, 11:27 am
#739
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Programs: KL Gold, SQ KF Gold, CX Green
Posts: 9,418
Maybe I'm not smart enough to fully understand the problems we face. I get slowing the curve so medical providers aren't completely overwhelmed and limiting movement/contact for a couple of weeks. But what happens after a few weeks? If we try to resume our normal lives at that point won't we just repeat the infection rates with growing numbers exposed to the virus? Repeat....Repeat......
Mar 17, 2020, 11:27 am
#740
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2015
Location: BOS, YVR, ZRH
Programs: *G
Posts: 17,411
No, millions and millions of people (just in the U.S.) have been "infected" with fear, hysteria and panic. Very very few have actually been infected and only a handful have died.
The number of people who have already been affected by the actions of our so-called leaders who shut down every business they can has hurt far more people than this stupid virus could ever hope to accomplish.
I'm off work for the rest of the week due to crashing demand. That means less money for me to spend elsewhere, thus spreading the disease (a disease of massive economic disruption).
I am so angry, and sad, at the overreaction and the unfounded fear that we will all die if too many people go to the hospital, that I would sign up to be infected with the coronavirus if everyone else would calm down and carry on with their lives as before. Wash your hands and stay away from sick people... that's free. Staying at home and doing nothing will cause millions of people to go into bankruptcy, homelessness, and starvation. Saying that the cure is worse than the disease is a serious understatement. It's like getting the cold and taking a medicine for it that gives you cancer. Yay no more sniffling, but you lose all your muscle and face years of torture.
The number of people who have already been affected by the actions of our so-called leaders who shut down every business they can has hurt far more people than this stupid virus could ever hope to accomplish.
I'm off work for the rest of the week due to crashing demand. That means less money for me to spend elsewhere, thus spreading the disease (a disease of massive economic disruption).
I am so angry, and sad, at the overreaction and the unfounded fear that we will all die if too many people go to the hospital, that I would sign up to be infected with the coronavirus if everyone else would calm down and carry on with their lives as before. Wash your hands and stay away from sick people... that's free. Staying at home and doing nothing will cause millions of people to go into bankruptcy, homelessness, and starvation. Saying that the cure is worse than the disease is a serious understatement. It's like getting the cold and taking a medicine for it that gives you cancer. Yay no more sniffling, but you lose all your muscle and face years of torture.
Give the ignorant one some time. This is FT, we can't expect everyone to understand everything.
Mar 17, 2020, 11:29 am
#741
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NY Metro Area
Programs: AA 2MM Yay!, UA MM, Costco General Member
Posts: 49,053
No, millions and millions of people (just in the U.S.) have been "infected" with fear, hysteria and panic. Very very few have actually been infected and only a handful have died.
The number of people who have already been affected by the actions of our so-called leaders who shut down every business they can has hurt far more people than this stupid virus could ever hope to accomplish.
I'm off work for the rest of the week due to crashing demand. That means less money for me to spend elsewhere, thus spreading the disease (a disease of massive economic disruption).
I am so angry, and sad, at the overreaction and the unfounded fear that we will all die if too many people go to the hospital, that I would sign up to be infected with the coronavirus if everyone else would calm down and carry on with their lives as before. Wash your hands and stay away from sick people... that's free. Staying at home and doing nothing will cause millions of people to go into bankruptcy, homelessness, and starvation. Saying that the cure is worse than the disease is a serious understatement. It's like getting the cold and taking a medicine for it that gives you cancer. Yay no more sniffling, but you lose all your muscle and face years of torture.
The number of people who have already been affected by the actions of our so-called leaders who shut down every business they can has hurt far more people than this stupid virus could ever hope to accomplish.
I'm off work for the rest of the week due to crashing demand. That means less money for me to spend elsewhere, thus spreading the disease (a disease of massive economic disruption).
I am so angry, and sad, at the overreaction and the unfounded fear that we will all die if too many people go to the hospital, that I would sign up to be infected with the coronavirus if everyone else would calm down and carry on with their lives as before. Wash your hands and stay away from sick people... that's free. Staying at home and doing nothing will cause millions of people to go into bankruptcy, homelessness, and starvation. Saying that the cure is worse than the disease is a serious understatement. It's like getting the cold and taking a medicine for it that gives you cancer. Yay no more sniffling, but you lose all your muscle and face years of torture.
Mar 17, 2020, 11:32 am
#742
Join Date: Mar 2005
Programs: Continental Onepass, Hilton, Marriott, USAir and now UA
Posts: 6,447
No, millions and millions of people (just in the U.S.) have been "infected" with fear, hysteria and panic. Very very few have actually been infected and only a handful have died.
The number of people who have already been affected by the actions of our so-called leaders who shut down every business they can has hurt far more people than this stupid virus could ever hope to accomplish.
I'm off work for the rest of the week due to crashing demand. That means less money for me to spend elsewhere, thus spreading the disease (a disease of massive economic disruption).
I am so angry, and sad, at the overreaction and the unfounded fear that we will all die if too many people go to the hospital, that I would sign up to be infected with the coronavirus if everyone else would calm down and carry on with their lives as before. Wash your hands and stay away from sick people... that's free. Staying at home and doing nothing will cause millions of people to go into bankruptcy, homelessness, and starvation. Saying that the cure is worse than the disease is a serious understatement. It's like getting the cold and taking a medicine for it that gives you cancer. Yay no more sniffling, but you lose all your muscle and face years of torture.
The number of people who have already been affected by the actions of our so-called leaders who shut down every business they can has hurt far more people than this stupid virus could ever hope to accomplish.
I'm off work for the rest of the week due to crashing demand. That means less money for me to spend elsewhere, thus spreading the disease (a disease of massive economic disruption).
I am so angry, and sad, at the overreaction and the unfounded fear that we will all die if too many people go to the hospital, that I would sign up to be infected with the coronavirus if everyone else would calm down and carry on with their lives as before. Wash your hands and stay away from sick people... that's free. Staying at home and doing nothing will cause millions of people to go into bankruptcy, homelessness, and starvation. Saying that the cure is worse than the disease is a serious understatement. It's like getting the cold and taking a medicine for it that gives you cancer. Yay no more sniffling, but you lose all your muscle and face years of torture.
Mar 17, 2020, 11:54 am
#743
Join Date: May 2012
Location: BKK/SIN/YYZ/YUL
Programs: DL, AC, Bonvoy, Accor, Hilton
Posts: 2,924
No, millions and millions of people (just in the U.S.) have been "infected" with fear, hysteria and panic. Very very few have actually been infected and only a handful have died.
The number of people who have already been affected by the actions of our so-called leaders who shut down every business they can has hurt far more people than this stupid virus could ever hope to accomplish.
I'm off work for the rest of the week due to crashing demand. That means less money for me to spend elsewhere, thus spreading the disease (a disease of massive economic disruption).
I am so angry, and sad, at the overreaction and the unfounded fear that we will all die if too many people go to the hospital, that I would sign up to be infected with the coronavirus if everyone else would calm down and carry on with their lives as before. Wash your hands and stay away from sick people... that's free. Staying at home and doing nothing will cause millions of people to go into bankruptcy, homelessness, and starvation. Saying that the cure is worse than the disease is a serious understatement. It's like getting the cold and taking a medicine for it that gives you cancer. Yay no more sniffling, but you lose all your muscle and face years of torture.
The number of people who have already been affected by the actions of our so-called leaders who shut down every business they can has hurt far more people than this stupid virus could ever hope to accomplish.
I'm off work for the rest of the week due to crashing demand. That means less money for me to spend elsewhere, thus spreading the disease (a disease of massive economic disruption).
I am so angry, and sad, at the overreaction and the unfounded fear that we will all die if too many people go to the hospital, that I would sign up to be infected with the coronavirus if everyone else would calm down and carry on with their lives as before. Wash your hands and stay away from sick people... that's free. Staying at home and doing nothing will cause millions of people to go into bankruptcy, homelessness, and starvation. Saying that the cure is worse than the disease is a serious understatement. It's like getting the cold and taking a medicine for it that gives you cancer. Yay no more sniffling, but you lose all your muscle and face years of torture.
You call it an over reaction and unfounded fear. The medical personnel in northern Italy now forced to select those who will live and those who will die have a different view. You don't get it do you? Hospital beds are limited. There are not enough respirators available to answer the need. Federal, and state governments have not yet started to create the additional bed capacity that will be needed. The failure to appreciate the highly infectious nature of this disease, to generate the diagnostic test capacity to identify active cases and carriers and to isolate them is what has brought us to this state.
This is an infection that will cripple the nation's medical care ability. You don't appreciate that hospitals now have to delay anything but emergency procedures. because of that there will be collateral damage. Beds have to be made available. More importantly, people who undergo procedures are at risk of becoming infected. In an attempt to calm people inadequate information has been provided. We are told that those with chronic health conditions and over the age of 60 are at risk of complication. That's nice. Well, 10% of the US population is diabetic. That's 34 million people. Maybe some have other diseases or are elderly. If only 10% have a serious infection that is 3 million people. Add in those living with cancer, or kidney disease or lupus etc. Guess what, the vulnerable US population once you filter out concurrent illnesses, conditions and age is probably at least 60 million if not more. (there are 50 million people over the age of 65). The US healthcare system cannot handle the numbers even if only 10% become ill. There are not enough beds, or medical personnel.
You talk of financial costs. Consider the costs of caring for these patients. If elderly, many will be medicare/medicaid costs. Others may fall under retirement plan healthcare benefits. Who will pay for that? Many of these people will have family, family who will have to take time off to care or to worry about these patients.
It therefore becomes a cost benefit exercise: A few short months of slowdown to save millions of people and billions of dollars in costs, a slowdown that will be compensated for when the situation calms and activity resumes.
If you are at home doing nothing, then that is a reflection on your life. I am working from home. Others are upgrading their skills doing continuing education or reading up on work related skills. If you are bored, consider volunteering to help those who are isolated. It's time to focus on the greater good which benefits us all instead of on your on individual desires.
Mar 17, 2020, 12:00 pm
#744
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 733
I'd like to travel in the US but I'm not sure where because I don't know where I will find restaurants that are open.
Mar 17, 2020, 12:06 pm
#745
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Virginia City Highlands
Programs: Nothing anymore after 20 years
Posts: 6,900
Very simple yes/no question - should people infected by this virus being treated by healthcare system?
Mar 17, 2020, 12:14 pm
#746
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: PHX
Programs: Delta DM, Marriott Lifetime Titanium, HHonrs Diamond
Posts: 1,336
CBS News interview with Dr. Deborah Birx, the White House coronavirus response coordinator. Please watch especially if you feel it is not your problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkQAM3rHcbQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkQAM3rHcbQ
Imploring the youth of America to stay home and protect the people that they think caused global warming and the 2008 crash will get her nowhere.
What people in public health need to do is say, if you are 20 and smoke or vape, you could have the mortality of a 60+ year-old yourself if your get this.
Lung compromise of any kind and at any age makes this harder to treat. That includes getting the flu and this at the same time.
Mar 17, 2020, 12:19 pm
#747
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Virginia City Highlands
Programs: Nothing anymore after 20 years
Posts: 6,900
One takeover from this situation will be that once this is over, we will never look at healthcare as an industry and profession the same way as it was before.
I expect there will be wide ranged discussion in the society what is healthcare for society and for an individual and what kind of obligation the healthcare system has toward an individual and visa versa.
P.S. Absolutely not joking - if any of you have connection to policymakers, tell them that they need to establish a special award or set of awards now which should go to individuals and businesses for their outstanding dedication to bring this pandemic under control. And people given such award need to be treated like national heroes. No more, no less.
I expect there will be wide ranged discussion in the society what is healthcare for society and for an individual and what kind of obligation the healthcare system has toward an individual and visa versa.
P.S. Absolutely not joking - if any of you have connection to policymakers, tell them that they need to establish a special award or set of awards now which should go to individuals and businesses for their outstanding dedication to bring this pandemic under control. And people given such award need to be treated like national heroes. No more, no less.
Mar 17, 2020, 12:20 pm
#748
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Pacific Northwest
Programs: UA Gold 1MM, AS 75k, AA Plat, Bonvoyed Gold, Honors Dia, Hyatt Explorer, IHG Plat, ...
Posts: 16,859
What people in public health need to do is say, if you are 20 and smoke or vape, you could have the mortality of a 60+ year-old yourself if your get this.
Lung compromise of any kind and at any age makes this harder to treat. That includes getting the flu and this at the same time.
Lung compromise of any kind and at any age makes this harder to treat. That includes getting the flu and this at the same time.
I also don’t know that that age group is likely to watch CBS Evening News...
Mar 17, 2020, 12:22 pm
#749
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Seat 1A, Juice pretty much everywhere, Mucci des Coins Exotiques
Posts: 34,339
I think it is a good thing that most people are no longer paying attention to the doomsayers.
Mar 17, 2020, 12:26 pm
#750
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NY Metro Area
Programs: AA 2MM Yay!, UA MM, Costco General Member
Posts: 49,053
If people ignore that many people will die. Do you just not get it? Or do you not care if a lot of older, sicker people die? I'm trying to understand. The numbers were clear a month ago. Italy was clear weeks ago. I'm not following.