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colpuck Jul 18, 2009 10:01 am


Originally Posted by fozz (Post 12085730)
And 13 varieties of 757s!!

hmmm maybe that is what LK is going to do. LK runs the clock on his non-compete clause in private equity and then brings some adult supervision to DL.

fozz Jul 18, 2009 10:03 am


Originally Posted by Mackieman (Post 12085719)
I thought that too about NW a couple of years ago, but if I remember right I was educated by the Wizard of Fozz concerning the DC9, in that NW actually owned the aircraft outright and did not have any payments due on them. That made their operating costs significantly lower than other aircraft that were either leased or had lien holders, even with the godawful amount of fuel they guzzle. I wonder if DL keeps them around on the semi-regional routes until the market turns around.

While that is very true, the reality is DL has way too many aircraft and will likely start parking some soon.

My bet is the first ones to go are the 757s and DC9s. They already sold a bunch of 757s at the end of last year but they still have many more.

DL, also trying to go for the world-class airline, has enough of an ego to go buy all new aircraft and not think about the economics of keeping the DC9s.

fozz Jul 18, 2009 10:05 am


Originally Posted by colpuck (Post 12085747)
hmmm maybe that is what LK is going to do. LK runs the clock on his non-compete clause in private equity and then brings some adult supervision to DL.

Could you imagine the headache in going from 40-50 something configs to 4? :)

Mackieman Jul 18, 2009 10:05 am


Originally Posted by fozz (Post 12085756)
While that is very true, the reality is DL has way too many aircraft and will likely start parking some soon.

My bet is the first ones to go are the 757s and DC9s. They already sold a bunch of 757s at the end of last year but they still have many more.

DL, also trying to go for the world-class airline, has enough of an ego to go buy all new aircraft and not think about the economics of keeping the DC9s.

I suppose that's true. But which of the 757 fleet would they want to get rid of? Their transcon 757 is fairly nice with the AVOD. Perhaps the old TWA birds?

Xyzzy Jul 18, 2009 10:13 am


Originally Posted by sbm12 (Post 12084064)
Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8830/4.2.2 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)

Mother nature went for a jog this afternoon in NYC. Tonight she hung her sweat socks over the city to dry them out.

It is disgusting outside here.

I had to go to EWR last night. The weather was absolutely disgusting.

It's quite nice this afternoon, though.

ConciergeMike Jul 18, 2009 10:16 am


Originally Posted by colpuck (Post 12085717)
I remembered when you wrote that. Personally, I don't even think it is nice. The whole airport needs to be shutdown, torn down, and re-built from the ground up. I am thinking something like an AMS one terminal concept.

Between the needs for widebodies, the FIS/Customs needs, the baggage handling operations, and ramp space, etc. it would not surprise me in the least if someone tried to rebuild the capacity of JFK into an AMS-style concept and ended up with a building that came close to rivaling the Boeing building for sheer volume of interior space. That said, it will never happen but it would be a fascinating exercise.


Originally Posted by fozz (Post 12085745)
It honestly depends where in JFK you are.

T4 is really nice, though the lounges are not airside. T7 I really like. T1, T5 and T8 are relatively new so they are quite nice from what I hear.

The lack of one big terminal is nice in that it provides a bit more of an intimate feel.

Now, T2 and T3 should be blown to bits. Part of the problem with JFK is DL as they are WAY bigger than their facilities allows.

B6 and AA built new terminals before they went expansion crazy. DL just decided to use apron space and steady-stairs. :rolleyes:

I've heard that T5 turned out beautiful when it was finished out. I have no other useful comments about JFK, but having been on sbm12's T5 construction tour, you could tell even before it was finished that it would be both beautiful and functional.

I disagree about the intimate feel. In AMS, I didn't at all feel like it was impersonal or not intimate in some way. The halls are so wide and layout so logical that I didn't at all feel like I was a cog in the machine.


Originally Posted by fozz (Post 12085756)
DL, also trying to go for the world-class airline, has enough of an ego to go buy all new aircraft and not think about the economics of keeping the DC9s.

Is it ego or is it hubris? I would vote Column B on that one, personally. It's also like DL thinks they have some kind of Manifest Destiny to fly everywhere no matter the logic of doing so.

ConciergeMike Jul 18, 2009 10:20 am

I'm channel surfing before I sit and study for the afternoon, and I would really like to know who at HGTV thought it was a good idea to give Keyshawn Johnson an interior design show?

Olton Hall Jul 18, 2009 10:24 am

Afternoon Box

Originally Posted by ConciergeMike (Post 12085527)
Coffee use is imminent...I'll be in my fully human state in about 30 minutes.

It's taking me hours to feel human today. At least I don't feel like microwaved s anymore.


Originally Posted by fozz (Post 12085745)
It honestly depends where in JFK you are.

T4 is really nice, though the lounges are not airside. T7 I really like. T1, T5 and T8 are relatively new so they are quite nice from what I hear.

I had the fun of working on someo the airside design of T8. Project was slowed down long before 9-11.


Originally Posted by Mackieman (Post 12085761)
I suppose that's true. But which of the 757 fleet would they want to get rid of? Their transcon 757 is fairly nice with the AVOD. Perhaps the old TWA birds?

Some of the NW 757's are up there in age.

cheepneezy Jul 18, 2009 10:25 am


Originally Posted by ConciergeMike (Post 12085801)
I'm channel surfing before I sit and study for the afternoon, and I would really like to know who at HGTV thought it was a good idea to give Keyshawn Johnson an interior design show?

The same genius who hired Drew Lachey.

fozz Jul 18, 2009 10:28 am


Originally Posted by Mackieman (Post 12085761)
I suppose that's true. But which of the 757 fleet would they want to get rid of? Their transcon 757 is fairly nice with the AVOD. Perhaps the old TWA birds?

The old TWA birds are the newest ones in the fleet and are the ones with AVOD and winglets along with ETOPS certs, so those aren't going.

Likely some of the NW 752s. They are some of the oldest 752s out there so it's about time they go out to pasture... or a third world country.

icurhere2 Jul 18, 2009 10:29 am


Originally Posted by ConciergeMike (Post 12085801)
I'm channel surfing before I sit and study for the afternoon, and I would really like to know who at HGTV thought it was a good idea to give Keyshawn Johnson an interior design show?

I don't know how to respond to this.

colpuck Jul 18, 2009 10:31 am


Originally Posted by fozz (Post 12085825)
Likely some of the NW 752s. They are some of the oldest 752s out there so it's about time they go out to pasture... or a third world country.

They could go to Air Astana, I hear they operate the type (and sacrifice goats to them).

Olton Hall Jul 18, 2009 10:32 am


Originally Posted by ConciergeMike (Post 12085801)
I'm channel surfing before I sit and study for the afternoon, and I would really like to know who at HGTV thought it was a good idea to give Keyshawn Johnson an interior design show?

I think the producers and casting directors are living in some dream world. They always go for the load d bags to host shows and what are the shows that do well? The ones with the funny, geeky, normal people. Example, Myth Busters.

ConciergeMike Jul 18, 2009 10:33 am


Originally Posted by colpuck (Post 12085838)
They could go to Air Astana, I hear they operate the type (and sacrifice goats to them).

There was the story in the travel trades a few years ago about the Nepalese airline that took delivery of a new 757 and upon it taxiing in a goat was slaughtered and its blood poured over the front landing gear as a plea to the gods for success.

fozz Jul 18, 2009 10:35 am


Originally Posted by ConciergeMike (Post 12085791)

I disagree about the intimate feel. In AMS, I didn't at all feel like it was impersonal or not intimate in some way. The halls are so wide and layout so logical that I didn't at all feel like I was a cog in the machine.

AMS is a great airport. But, I personally believe the TSA will be the biggest obstacle in one big terminal. They don't like them. Why? When they feel like exercising their authority (insert Cartman badge here) and closing down a security checkpoint due to a "breach" they would possibly have to shutdown the entire airport.

Additionally, at JFK, i'm not sure if the land they have would efficiently accommodate such a design.

Personally, i'm still waiting for them to tear down the Pan Am hangars and build a terminal there. Maybe DL can have its very own "North" terminal. :D



Originally Posted by ConciergeMike (Post 12085791)
Is it ego or is it hubris? I would vote Column B on that one, personally. It's also like DL thinks they have some kind of Manifest Destiny to fly everywhere no matter the logic of doing so.

You're likely more on point with hubris.

The SYD flights don't seem to be doing too well. One day advance purchase for LAX-SYD under $600. The flights are going out weight restricted and they have developed the UA syndrome of being late. Last Sundays flight was three hours late.


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