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Quote:

Originally Posted by Anglo Large Clawed Otter (Post 9796429)

Just curious, as I'm only KVS so far. Could you please post the routing rules for the UA LAX-ATL $979 HUPMX fare? I'd like to compare how ExpertFlyer displays that against the saved copy of the routing rules I have from back when KVS used to give them. That fare allowed for two transfers each way, so I'm curious as to how ExpertFlyer might display that (as opposed to the "Single Connect" language above).

.bomb also has a copy of the rules and it says max 8 transfers (4 each way). I of course haven't be able to get that to work, or I would abuse the hell out of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anglo Large Clawed Otter (Post 9796397)

For 99.99% of fliers (ignoring those beholden to corporate travel agents - many of which are less competent than the average FTer), a Travel Agent isn't a necessity. It's when you want to quickly and easily book certain types of fares and take full advantage of legal routing rules (as well as numerous other scenarios) that a TA becomes a Godsend. Also, even being a TA sometimes isn't enough. There are certain fares that can only be issued in certain countries. In those cases, it's helpful to know a local TA in that country.

Some of the corporate travel agents I have been forced to interact with have been the type of people who fly once or twice a year for a long weekend in Vegas. The incompetent Amex travel agents for my brother's company dont't know the differences between business class, premium economy, and economy. He ordered a business class itinerary recently, and the TA booked a combination of economy and premium economy. The TA had to rebook the whole itinerary and by the time they did so, had to book into full J instead of a discounted business class fare bucket, costing the company an extra $2000+.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ConciergeMike (Post 9796420)

Travel agents are still alive and well. My mommy happens to be a pretty good one. The Internet hasn't taken over the way it was made out to be. People do still desire a subject-matter expert.

Does your mommy take requests for ticketing of complicated Q-UP Itineraries? :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by colpuck (Post 9796449)

.bomb also has a copy of the rules and it says max 8 transfers (4 each way). I of course haven't be able to get that to work, or I would abuse the hell out of it.

.bomb gives full routing rules, or fare rules? I didn't know they had routing rules there. Not that I would trust anything from .bomb for an instant. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anglo Large Clawed Otter (Post 9796466)

.bomb gives full routing rules, or fare rules? I didn't know they had routing rules there. Not that I would trust anything from .bomb for an instant. :D

I think you answered your own question. :D;) 10 more till 1K status (posting, not Mileage Plus)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anglo Large Clawed Otter (Post 9796429)

I just signed up today for a trial , it is def different than kvs :

Departing ATL on 05/29/08 for LAX
Fare basis code HUPMX
Flying UA

HUPMX 526.00 1052.00 UA ROUTE:0035
VALID SINGLE CONNECT CITIES FROM: ATL TO LAX
ABE ALB AUS BDL BIL BOI BOS BUF BUR CAK CHI CID
CLE CLT CMH COS CRW DAY DEN DFW DSM DTT EWR FAT
GEG GSO HAR HFD HOU ICT IND LAS LNK MIA MKC MKE
MLI MSN MSP MSY NYC OAK OKC OMA ONT ORF ORL PHF
PHL PHX PIT RDU RIC RNO ROA ROC SAN SAT SBA SFO
SJC SLC SMF SNA STL SYR TPA TUL TUS WAS

ADDITIONAL RESTRICTIONS ON ROUTING:
NONE

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolov (Post 9796482)

Hmmm, so it looks like it only offers single-connect points. Still, it does narrow down the guessing a bit. I may have to get an ExpertFlyer subscription as a stop-gap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anglo Large Clawed Otter (Post 9796429)

Just curious, as I'm only KVS so far. Could you please post the routing rules for the UA LAX-ATL $979 HUPMX fare?

rolov, I got something quite different than you. Searching for UA LAX-ATL (picked 6/13/08). The full fare rules are quite lengthy, so here are two relevent sections:

Quote:

Originally Posted by EF

STOPOVERS WITHIN CONTIGUOUS U.S.A. 2 STOPOVERS PERMITTED - 1 IN EACH DIRECTION IN DEN AT USD 55.81 EACH. NOTE - NOT VALID ON NONSTOP ROUTINGS OR ROUTINGS THAT DO NOT HAVE DEN AS AN INTERMEDIATE POINT.
TRANSFERS FOR ONE WAY FARES 4 TRANSFERS PERMITTED. NOTE - FARE BREAK SURFACE SECTORS ARE NOT PERMITTED.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shell nyc (Post 9796511)

rolov, I got something quite different than you. Searching for UA LAX-ATL (picked 6/13/08). The full fare rules are quite lengthy, so here are two relevent sections:

Those look like fare rules, as opposed to routing rules.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anglo Large Clawed Otter (Post 9796505)

Hmmm, so it looks like it only offers single-connect points. Still, it does narrow down the guessing a bit. I may have to get an ExpertFlyer subscription as a stop-gap.

Does this help , its under fare rules and not routing :

TRANSFERS FOR ONE WAY FARES 4 TRANSFERS PERMITTED. NOTE - FARE BREAK SURFACE SECTORS ARE NOT PERMITTED.
PERMITTED COMBINATIONS FOR ONE WAY FARES ADD-ONS NOT PERMITTED. FARES MAY BE COMBINED ON A HALF ROUND TRIP BASIS WITH ANY FARE FOR ANY CARRIER IN ANY RULE AND TARIFF TO FORM SINGLE/DOUBLE OPEN JAWS/2-COMPONENT ROUND TRIPS/MULTI- COMPONENT CIRCLE TRIPS. END-ON-END PERMITTED. VALIDATE ALL FARE COMPONENTS. TRAVEL MUST BE VIA POINT OF COMBINATION. NOTE - THE CITY PAIRS BELOW ARE CONSIDERED THE SAME POINT- BWI-WAS FLL-MIA FLL-PBI MIA-PBI BUR-LAX BUR-ONT BUR-SNA LAX-ONT LAX-SNA ONT-SNA OAK-SFO OAK-SJC SFO-SJC EWR-HVN EWR-ISP EWR-NYC EWR-HPN HVN-ISP HVN-NYC HVN-HPN ISP-NYC ISP-HPN NYC-HPN

Yep, those were the fare rules:

[KVS Availability Tool 3.1.0/Platinum - ZUJ: LAX-ATL/UA/HUPMX/979 USD]

Code:

FIRST CLASS RESTRICTED



[RULE APPLICATION AND OTHER CONDITIONS]

NORMAL/EXCURSION/STATUS FARES APPLICATION CLASS OF SERVICE THESE FARES

APPLY FOR FIRST/BUSINESS/COACH CLASS SERVICE. TYPES OF TRANSPORTATION

THIS RULE ALSO APPLIES TO JOINT TRANSPORTATION. CAPACITY LIMITATIONS

SEATS ARE LIMITED.



[ELIGIBILITY]

NO ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS APPLY.



[DAY/TIME]

NO DAY/TIME TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS APPLY.



[SEASONALITY]

NO SEASONAL TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS APPLY.



[FLIGHT APPLICATION]

THE FARE COMPONENT MUST NOT BE ON ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING UA FLIGHTS

04 THROUGH 06 UA FLIGHTS 08 THROUGH 12 UA FLIGHTS 14 THROUGH 19 UA

FLIGHTS 21 THROUGH 23 UA FLIGHTS 26 THROUGH 29 UA FLIGHTS 32 THROUGH

34 UA FLIGHT 47 UA FLIGHT 50 UA FLIGHTS 53 THROUGH 54 UA FLIGHT 58

UA FLIGHT 68 UA FLIGHT 82 UA FLIGHT 84 UA FLIGHT 87 UA FLIGHT 100 UA

FLIGHT 106 UA FLIGHT 134 UA FLIGHTS 136 THROUGH 137 UA FLIGHT 149 UA

FLIGHT 158 UA FLIGHT 194 UA FLIGHT 225 UA FLIGHT 233 UA FLIGHTS 243 THROUGH

245 UA FLIGHT 253 UA FLIGHT 256 UA FLIGHT 301 UA FLIGHT 316 UA

FLIGHT 340 UA FLIGHT 395 UA FLIGHT 461 UA FLIGHT 595 UA FLIGHT 722 UA

FLIGHT 831 UA FLIGHT 837 UA FLIGHTS 839 THROUGH 840 UA FLIGHT 842 UA

FLIGHT 852 UA FLIGHTS 862 THROUGH 863 UA FLIGHT 867 UA FLIGHT 869 UA

FLIGHTS 871 THROUGH 872 UA FLIGHTS 877 THROUGH 878 UA FLIGHTS 892 THROUGH

893 UA FLIGHTS 902 THROUGH 903 UA FLIGHTS 907 THROUGH 908 UA FLIGHTS

909 THROUGH 910 UA FLIGHT 914. AND THE FARE COMPONENT MUST NOT

BE ON ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING UA FLIGHT 941 UA FLIGHTS 946 THROUGH

947 UA FLIGHTS 950 THROUGH 951 UA FLIGHT 959 UA FLIGHT 967 UA FLIGHT

982 UA FLIGHT 1192 UA FLIGHT 1223 UA FLIGHT 1235.



[ADVANCE RESERVATIONS/TICKETING]

CONFIRMED RESERVATIONS ARE REQUIRED FOR ALL SECTORS. TICKETING MUST BE

COMPLETED WITHIN 1 DAY AFTER RESERVATIONS ARE MADE. NOTE - TEXT BELOW

NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THE TKTG AFTER RES REQ WILL NOT APPL

WHEN FARES ARE COMB W/OTHER FARES TO CONST THRU INTL TRANS T/F PTS OUTSIDE

THE US/CA/MX/BM/BS/WEST INDIES PROVIDED AT LEAST ONE INTERNATIONAL

SEGMENT OUTSIDE OF THIS AREA IS VIA UA.



[MINIMUM STAY]

NO MINIMUM STAY REQUIREMENTS APPLY.



[MAXIMUM STAY]

NO MAXIMUM STAY REQUIREMENTS APPLY.



[STOPOVERS]

2 STOPOVERS PERMITTED - 1 IN EACH DIRECTION IN DEN AT USD 55.81. NOTE

- TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. NOT VALID ON NONSTOP ROUTINGS

OR ROUTINGS THAT DO NOT HAVE DEN AS AN INTERMEDIATE POINT.



[TRANSFERS]

4 TRANSFERS PERMITTED ON THE PRICING UNIT. FARE BREAK AND EMBEDDED SURFACE

SECTORS PERMITTED ON THE FARE COMPONENT. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED

FOR AUTOPRICING. FARE BREAK SURFACE SECTORS ARE NOT PERMITTED.



[COMBINATIONS]

ADD-ONS NOT PERMITTED. FARES MAY BE COMBINED ON A HALF ROUND TRIP BASIS

WITH ANY FARE FOR ANY CARRIER IN ANY RULE AND TARIFF TO FORM SINGLE/DOUBLE

OPEN JAWS/2-COMPONENT ROUND TRIPS/ MULTI-COMPONENT CIRCLE TRIPS.

END-ON-END PERMITTED. VALIDATE ALL FARE COMPONENTS. TRAVEL MUST BE

VIA POINT OF COMBINATION. NOTE - THE CITY PAIRS BELOW ARE CONSIDERED

THE SAME POINT - BUR-LAX  BUR-ONT  BUR-SNA  BWI-WAS  EWR-HPN EWR-HVN

 EWR-ISP  EWR-NYC  FLL-MIA  FLL-PBI HVN-HPN  HVN-ISP  HVN-NYC  ISP-HPN

 ISP-NYC LAX-ONT  LAX-SNA  MIA-PBI  NYC-HPN  OAK-SFO OAK-SJC  ONT-SNA

 SFO-SJC



[BLACKOUT DATES]

NO BLACKOUT DATES APPLY.



[SURCHARGES]

FUEL SURCHARGE OF USD 13.95 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE

FARE. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THE SURCHARGE

APPLIES IN ADDITION TO ALL OTHER CHARGES AND IS NOT SUBJECT

TO ANY DISCOUNT. ---- RULES GOVERNING FARES FOR TRAVEL ON A SEGMENT ON

WHICH A SURCHARGE APPLIES WILL ALSO GOVERN THE SURCHARGE. EXCEPTION

- THE FOLLOWING PASSENGERS ARE EXEMPT FROM THESE CHARGES- 1.  PASSENGERS

WHO ARE TRAVELING ON ANY UA FREE TICKET OR ON UA/OTHER AIRLINES

EMPLOYEE REDUCED FARE TICKETS. 2.  PASSENGERS TRAVELING ON FARES EXCLUDED

WITH CATEGORY 12 - SURCHARGE - IN THE FARE RULES.



[ACCOMPANIED TRAVEL]

ACCOMPANIED TRAVEL NOT REQUIRED.



[TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS]

NO TRAVEL DATE RESTRICTIONS APPLY.



[SALES RESTRICTIONS]

TICKETS MAY BE ISSUED BY MAIL.



[PENALTIES]

NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. - TICKETS MUST BE REISSUED

WHEN ANY VOLUNTARY CHANGE IS  MADE. . 1. WHOLLY UNUSED TICKETS

- CHANGES TO ORIGINATING FLIGHT - WHOLLY UNUSED TICKETS ARE FULLY REFUNDABLE.

CHANGES ARE PERMITTED AT ANYTIME. IF CHANGE IS MADE TO ORIGIN/DESTINATION/STOP-

OVER POINT/BOOKING CODE OR CHANGE VIOLATES RULES

OF ORIGINALLY TICKETED FARE-TICKET MUST BE REPRICED AT CURRENT FARES

APPLICABLE TO CHANGED ITINERARY.  CHANGES MUST BE MADE AND TICKET REISSUED

BY THE ADVANCE PURCHASE OF THE NEW FARE. A. IF NEW FARE IS HIGHER

IN VALUE - COLLECT FARE DIFFERENCE B. IF NEW FARE IS LOWER IN VALUE

- THE RESIDUAL AMOUNT WILL BE REFUNDED TO ORIGINAL FORM OF PAYMENT.

2. WHOLLY UNUSED TICKETS - CHANGES TO OTHER THAN THE ORIGINATING FLIGHT

WITH NO CHANGE TO ORIGIN/DESTINATION/STOPOVER POINTS - CHANGES TO

OTHER THAN THE ORIGINATING FLIGHT MAY BE MADE ANYTIME WITHOUT REGARD

TO THE ADVANCE PURCHASE REQUIREMENT PROVIDED CHANGE MEETS ALL OTHER

RULES OF THE TICKETED FARE AND ORIGINAL BOOKING CODE IS AVAILABLE. IF

CHANGE IS MADE TO ORIGIN/DESTINATION/ STOPOVER POINT/BOOKING CODE OR

CHANGE VIOLATES MIN/MAX REQUIREMENT OF ORIGINAL TICKETED FARE - TICKET

MUST BE REPRICED USING CURRENT FARES APPLICABLE TO CHANGED ITINERARY.

 CHANGES MUST BE MADE AND TICKET REISSUED BY THE ADVANCE PURCHASE

OF THE NEW FARE. A. IF NEW FARE IS HIGHER IN VALUE - COLLECT FARE DIFFERENCE.

B. IF NEW FARE IS LOWER IN VALUE - THE RESIDUAL AMOUNT WILL

BE REFUNDED TO ORIGINAL FORM OF PAYMENT. 3. PARTIALLY USED TICKETS -

NO CHANGE TO ORIGIN/DESTINATION/STOPOVER POINTS CHANGES MAY BE MADE

TO OTHER THAN THE ORIG- INATING FLIGHT ANYTIME WITHOUT REGARD TO THE

ADVANCE PURCHASE REQUIREMENT PROVIDED CHANGE MEETS ALL OTHER RULES OF

THE TICKETED FARE AND ORIGINAL BOOKING CODE IS AVAILABLE. 4. PARTIALLY

USED TICKETS - CHANGE TO ORIGIN/DESTINATION/STOPOVER POINTS - IF CHANGE

IS MADE TO ORIGIN/DESTINATION/ STOPOVER POINTS OR IF CHANGE VIOLATES

MIN/MAX REQUIREMENT OF ORIGINALLY TICKETED FARE OR ORIGINAL BOOKING

CODE IS NOT AVAILABLE - SUBTRACT THE CURRENT APPLICABLE FARE FOR

PREVIOUSLY FLOWN SEGMENTS AND REFUND ANY RESIDUAL AMOUNT TO ORIGINAL

FORM OF PAYMENT.  ANY CURRENT APPLICABLE FARE MAY BE USED TO CALCULATE

PREVIOUSLY FLOWN SEGMENT INCLUDING FARE MEETING SAME QUALIFICATIONS

SUCH AS ADVANCE PURCHASE OR DAY OF WEEK APPLICATION OF ORIGINAL FARE.

 NEW FARE MUST BE EQUAL TO OR HIGHER THAN THE BOOKING CODE OF THE

ORIGINALLY FLOWN FARE BASED ON THE FOLLOWING HEIRARCHY. ISSUE NEW TICKET

FOR CONTINUING/ RETURN ITINERARY. F/P/A/C/D/Z/Y/B/M/E/U/H/Q/V/W/S/T

---- WHEN THESE FARES ARE COMBINED ON A HALF ROUND TRIP BASIS WITH

PENALTY OR RESTRICTED FARES TO FORM A RT/CT/OJ ITINERARY THE MOST RESTRICTIVE

PROVISIONS WILL APPLY. EXCEPTION - FARES COMBINED END-ON-END

ON THE TICKET//IE FARES THAT COULD STAND ALONE IF ISSUED ON A SEPARATE

TICKET// MAY BE CHANGED SEPARATELY. ---- SAME DAY CONFIRMED TRAVEL

PASSENGERS HOLDING CONFIRMED RESERVATIONS AND TICKETS FOR REFUNDABLE

FARES MAY CONFIRM AN ALTERNATE SAME-DAY FLIGHT FREE OF CHARGE BASED

ON THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS- -NEW FLIGHT IS WITHIN 4 HOURS OF CHECK-IN

AT EASY CHECK-IN UNIT OR AIRPORT TICKET COUNTER -3 HOURS FOR TRAVEL

ON/AFTER 15MAY08- - NO CHANGE TO ORIGIN/DESTINATION/STOPOVER CONNECTION

POINTS. - ALL TRAVEL IS ON UA..UAX AND TED. - CHANGES ARE PERMITTED

TO THE OUTBOUND OR CONTINUING/RETURN FLIGHTS. - CONFIRMATION IS SUBJECT

TO THE SAME CABIN AVAILABILITY. - IF REQUESTED CHANGE IS NOT APPLICABLE

FOR THE FARE PURCHASED //I.E. INVALID ROUTING /AIRPORT/BOOKING

CLASS/ETC.// CONFIRMED SAME DAY FLIGHT CHANGES DOES NOT APPLY. -

THE CUSTOMER MAY UPGRADE TO A FARE THAT DOES PERMIT THOSE CHANGES USING

THE NORMAL REISSUE PROCEDURES PER RULES OF THE ORIGINAL FARE. - IF

MULTIPLE CHANGES ARE MADE AT THE SAME TIME CONFIRMED SAME DAY FLIGHT

CHANGES DOES NOT APPLY. - NORMAL REISSUE PROCEDURES PER RULES OF THE

ORIGINAL FARE APPLY. - IF THE REQUEST IS MADE MORE THAN 4 HOURS IN ADVANCE

OF THE ALTERNATE FLIGHT -3 HOURS FOR TRAVEL ON/AFTER 15MAY08-

CONFIRMED SAME DAY FLIGHT CHANGES DOES NOT APPLY. - NORMAL REISSUE PROCEDURES

PER RULES OF THE ORIGINAL FARE APPLY.



[HIP/MILEAGE EXCEPTIONS]

NO HIP OR MILEAGE EXCEPTIONS APPLY.



[TICKET ENDORSEMENTS]

TICKET ENDORSEMENT NOT REQUIRED.



[CHILDREN DISCOUNTS]

1ST INF/INFANT WITHOUT A SEAT PSGR UNDER 2 - NO CHARGE. MUST BE ACCOMPANIED

ON ALL FLIGHTS IN THE SAME COMPARTMENT BY ADULT PSGR 18 OR OLDER.

OR - INS/INFANT WITH A SEAT PSGR UNDER 2 - CHARGE 100 PERCENT OF THE

FARE. MUST BE ACCOMPANIED ON ALL FLIGHTS IN THE SAME COMPARTMENT BY

ADULT PSGR 18 OR OLDER.



[TOUR CONDUCTOR DISCOUNTS]

NO DISCOUNTS FOR TOUR CONDUCTORS.



[AGENT DISCOUNTS]

NO DISCOUNTS FOR SALE AGENTS.



[ALL OTHER DISCOUNTS]

NO DISCOUNTS FOR OTHERS.



[MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS]

THIS FARE MAY NOT BE USED TO CALCULATE A DIFFERENTIAL.



[FARE BY RULE]

NOT APPLICABLE.



[GROUPS]

NO GROUP PROVISIONS APPLY.



[TOURS]

NO TOUR PROVISIONS APPLY.



[VISIT ANOTHER COUNTRY]

NO VISIT ANOTHER COUNTRY PROVISIONS APPLY.



[DEPOSITS]

NO DEPOSIT PROVISIONS APPLY.



[NEGOTIATED FARES]

NOT APPLICABLE. IC.INTERNATIONAL CONSTRUCTION NOT A CONSTRUCTED FARE

They're helpful, but routing rules are a different beast altogether.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anglo Large Clawed Otter (Post 9796518)

Those look like fare rules, as opposed to routing rules.

That's what I was thinking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shell nyc (Post 9796511)

rolov, I got something quite different than you. Searching for UA LAX-ATL (picked 6/13/08). The full fare rules are quite lengthy, so here are two relevent sections:

You must have clicked on the icon which looks like a sheet of paper
the symbol with the dots displays the routing rules .

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anglo Large Clawed Otter (Post 9796518)

Those look like fare rules, as opposed to routing rules.

Oops, you're right...those are fare rules. Not sure how to get routing rules on EF.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolov (Post 9796540)

You must have clicked on the icon which looks like a sheet of paper
the symbol with the dots displays the routing rules .

I went to the "Fare Information" tab and put in the flight/fare code info.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolov (Post 9796521)

Does this help , its under fare rules and not routing :

NOTE - THE CITY PAIRS BELOW ARE CONSIDERED THE SAME POINT- BWI-WAS FLL-MIA FLL-PBI MIA-PBI BUR-LAX BUR-ONT BUR-SNA LAX-ONT LAX-SNA ONT-SNA OAK-SFO OAK-SJC SFO-SJC EWR-HVN EWR-ISP EWR-NYC EWR-HPN HVN-ISP HVN-NYC HVN-HPN ISP-NYC ISP-HPN NYC-HPN

IIRC, what that tells you are which cities are basically considered "the same" for the purposes of that fare. So, given those city pairs above, if you could route xxx-EWR-yyy, you should also be able to route xxx-HPN-yyy (assuming such flights existed, and had availability in the fare bucket you were targeting).