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Steph3n May 11, 2010 11:03 am


Originally Posted by Hartmann (Post 13937721)
It looks like AF is thinking about pulling a page from Steph3n's AirlineMogul play book: http://www.usatoday.com/travel/fligh...=Google+Reader

:D what a failure that A380 purchase was x50. Even with that, I was unable to really hurt my value, in a short time.

on the other hand in AM the routes like this were actually the most profitable, the long hauls I intended it for were the suck.

uncertaintraveler May 11, 2010 11:05 am


Originally Posted by photog72 (Post 13938258)
So you never clicked on the link to read? :p Do you need cliff notes? :cool: Will this help? ;)

I'm wary of clicking on embedded links while on a work computer.


Originally Posted by photog72 (Post 13938258)
Would you want hospital food EVERY DAY?

Some hospital food isn't all that bad, and repetitive eating doesn't really bother me. I made it through law school eating, for a relatively extended period of time, not much beyond rice and hot dogs for dinner and peanut butter straight out of a jar for lunch.

Hartmann May 11, 2010 11:06 am


Originally Posted by Anglo Large Clawed Otter (Post 13938420)
I think CO's change of policy on LIM is silly. IIRC, LIM was originally switched to EUA eligibility because it couldn't support BF service or pricing. Now they're switching it back to a BF-esque upgrade scheme, without the true BF service. :rolleyes:

I doubt that the change will result in an appreciable number of people purchasing International Business fares to LIM outright. If they weren't buying them several years ago, when the economy was notably healthier, I doubt there's going to be a run on them now. The smart move would be to make LIM Y/B/M instant EUA eligible, while imposing a Hawaii-style Rev-Up fee within 24 hours of departure for other fares.

I'm guessing they want to grab revenue from those who have avoided buying a J ticket, even though their corporate policy would allow for it, knowing that they could get an EUA.

Another one of Smisek's fine choices.

Anglo Large Clawed Otter May 11, 2010 11:11 am


Originally Posted by Hartmann (Post 13938457)
I'm guessing they want to grab revenue from those who have avoided buying a J ticket, even though their corporate policy would allow for it, knowing that they could get an EUA.

Another one of Smisek's fine choices.

As others have mentioned in the thread, the BF cabin to LIM used to go out near-empty on a regular basis, even during the roaring economic boom of the late 90s. That's why CO made LIM an EUA route in the first place. There was no demand for BF tickets to LIM then, and I doubt that the situation has improved appreciably since then. There just isn't a ton of business travel to Lima (at least, not enough, and not regularly enough, to support it as a true BF market).

If CO wants to make some additional revenue, Y/B/M EUAs in concert with a 24-Hour Rev-Up would probably generate more revenue, more consistently, than a once in a blue moon sale of an undiscounted BF ticket. [/Armchair QB]

ssullivan May 11, 2010 11:11 am

Work today is beyond ****** up. :mad:

fozz May 11, 2010 11:18 am


Originally Posted by Anglo Large Clawed Otter (Post 13938420)
I think CO's change of policy on LIM is silly. IIRC, LIM was originally switched to EUA eligibility because it couldn't support BF service or pricing. Now they're switching it back to a BF-esque upgrade scheme, without the true BF service. :rolleyes:

I doubt that the change will result in an appreciable number of people purchasing International Business fares to LIM outright. If they weren't buying them several years ago, when the economy was notably healthier, I doubt there's going to be a run on them now. The smart move would be to make LIM Y/B/M instant EUA eligible, while imposing a Hawaii-style Rev-Up fee within 24 hours of departure for other fares.

I suppose we'll see.

I suspect the motivation is that the route now has new seats and that was likely the cincher.

Hartmann May 11, 2010 11:19 am


Originally Posted by Anglo Large Clawed Otter (Post 13938480)
As others have mentioned in the thread, the BF cabin to LIM used to go out near-empty on a regular basis, even during the roaring economic boom of the late 90s. That's why CO made LIM an EUA route in the first place. There was no demand for BF tickets to LIM then, and I doubt that the situation has improved appreciably since then. There just isn't a ton of business travel to Lima (at least, not enough, and not regularly enough, to support it as a true BF market).

If CO wants to make some additional revenue, Y/B/M EUAs in concert with a 24-Hour Rev-Up would probably generate more revenue, more consistently, than a once in a blue moon sale of an undiscounted BF ticket. [/Armchair QB]

Oh, I'm not disagreeing with you, I was just posting my theory of why they chose to go this route.

I would be fine with your proposed way of handling the route. I doubt CO will adopt it since it would be an anomaly in the system.

The 73G has the range to do IAH-LIM... If loads don't pan out for the front cabin, I wonder if they'll bump it down to a 73G and offer EUA again.

ConciergeMike May 11, 2010 11:19 am

Anyone think the change in LIM is due to it being a new market for the UA people?

fozz May 11, 2010 11:22 am


Originally Posted by ConciergeMike (Post 13938539)
Anyone think the change in LIM is due to it being a new market for the UA people?

I think it's too soon for that.

ConciergeMike May 11, 2010 11:25 am


Originally Posted by fozz (Post 13938562)
I think it's too soon for that.

I had failed to consider your angle re: flat seats. That's as a good a reason as I can think of. Where else do 752's typically go that isn't mainland US that we might see this for?

ConciergeMike May 11, 2010 11:27 am


Originally Posted by Hartmann (Post 13938536)
The 73G has the range to do IAH-LIM... If loads don't pan out for the front cabin, I wonder if they'll bump it down to a 73G and offer EUA again.

To go from a 752 to a 73G says absolutely nothing good about the numbers of a given route. That's a cut of ~50 seats, no?

Hartmann May 11, 2010 11:31 am


Originally Posted by ConciergeMike (Post 13938601)
To go from a 752 to a 73G says absolutely nothing good about the numbers of a given route. That's a cut of ~50 seats, no?

Yeah, it's ~50 seats, so maybe they'll just overbook the 752 and OpUp elites at the gate.

ConciergeMike May 11, 2010 11:34 am


Originally Posted by Hartmann (Post 13938618)
Yeah, it's ~50 seats, so maybe they'll just overbook the 752 and OpUp elites at the gate.

Doesn't that idea run in total contradiction to what they are trying to achieve? If The Wizard is right, and a guarantee of flat seats are the driver behind the change, running a ghetto EUA process at the gate does nothing to earn a revenue premium.

Hartmann May 11, 2010 11:38 am


Originally Posted by ConciergeMike (Post 13938644)
Doesn't that idea run in total contradiction to what they are trying to achieve? If The Wizard is right, and a guarantee of flat seats are the driver behind the change, running a ghetto EUA process at the gate does nothing to earn a revenue premium.

It encourages people to buy F/mileage upgrade if they want to ensure themselves a seat in the front. If the Y cabin isn't full then no opup.

Anglo Large Clawed Otter May 11, 2010 11:39 am

CO could also guarantee flat seats to BOG, MGA, GUA, etc. Doesn't mean that a substantial number of customers will pay a premium for the seats if there is insufficient business-travel demand to the destination.

I don't see CO rushing to save EWR-BRS because 752s are switching to lie-flat. The change in amenities won't create demand that isn't there.

LIM is a leisure destination that derives its revenue from passengers paying silly-high fares from most markets ($750+ on the nonstops, and usually over $500, even on a "good deal").


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