This is a perfect and concise explanation of why people shouldn't answer any of their silly questions. Also, it gets worse, because it's not your answer that counts, it's the TSA worker's memory of your answer that counts. And they can decide to remember it in whatever way makes you seem the most guilty of whatever they are accusing you of doing.

Here's a good video on the subject for anyone who might be interested.

It's always fun to use their own s0uper sekrit acronyms when dealing with TSA employees. :D


Pushing back against front line TSA employees conducting Security Theatre is most certainly constructive.

Where do you get the idea I have not been in contact with my elected representatives? :confused:



TSA employees are just that - employees.

If throughout history everyone did what the government told them to do, we would still be building pyramids.

How much should a TSA employee be earning?

If the head of the DHS or some politician decides to work the checkpoint for PR purposes, I would act the same as I always do, and I don't consider pushing back against Security Theatre "abusing people".


You do realize the TSA has tried to infest these modes of travel too, don't you?


Awesome, thank you for training a TSA employee. :D^


Generally, the TSA employee will hand you off to a CPB officer.


Trained Document Checker: "What is your name?"
PAX: "Are you a BDO, you did you guys just blow another Red Team team test?" :p


Offer you a job as a TSA employee? :eek::D <rimshot>

Totally disagree. U.S. citizens who have produced proof of citizenship and a written customs declaration are not obligated to answer questions in order to re-enter the country.

"Refusenik" is an interesting choice of word, given the meaning/etymology.

A written customs declaration asks many of those exact questions and requires a signature. What happens if you refuse to fill it out or hand them a blank one?

I don't wish to take this thread off topic because I think it is an important subject. But the several comments about being required to answer "more intrusive" questions when returning from an international journey are relevant to the slippery slope, IMHO.

Yes, a written customs declaration form asks more detailed questions, but the concept is the same as the name game when entering some TSA sterile areas. You have answered the questions and signed the form. There is no requirement that you also verbally answer the questions. Invariably, upon return from a foreign trip, those questions stray into other areas which you are not required to answer.

"What were you in [fill in country]?" The declaration form which you completed and signed asks whether the primary purpose of your trip was business, Y or N.

"How long were you in [fill in country]?" The declaration form asks which countries you visited before your return to the US.

The verbal questions, similar to the name game, has the effect of making the encounter more casual. The existence of the uniformed officer asking verbal questions can be intimidating and many people are more likely to answer the additional questions even though they are not required to do anything beyond providing their ID and a completed, signed declaration form.

I realize that some people feel it is not worth the bother to stand up for their rights. That the officer is "just doing his job." But I am concerned that the intrusive behavior continues to progress towards more and more unnecessary questions. And the name game is another brick in the wall.

A US citizen returning to their own country is not required to answer any questions beyond what they have declared on the form. And they are not required to answer them verbally.

Generally either this or failure to answer verbal questions to the agent's satisfaction will result in the US citizen being referred to secondary to "cool his jets" for a number of hours, and him and/or his baggage being very thoroughly searched.

Yes, that seems to be true. There are always those who will abuse their power and attempt to punish and intimidate people who are merely protecting their rights. We see this with the TSA when people are sent to secondary screening for no other reason than failure to "follow orders."

We all have to decide for ourselves what price liberty and freedom.

Absolutely correct, and confirmed by case law. ^ Moreover, a US passport is considered prima facie proof of citizenship; absent an articulable specific basis for believing the passport is forged or otherwise fraudulent, it constitutes an admission pass to the US.

It does. The difference is that answering the questions will determine whether it is honored right now or in an hour or two :(

And, the place I spent my two hours was technically in the US, so I could not say I was denied entry, just "momentarily" detained.

I am surprised that nobody on an IBB for frequent flyers seems to be aware of this, but U.S. citizens are no longer required (or even expected to) fill out a written form.

Indeed, you to not show your passport to anyone. Instead, you go to a computer, scan your passport, click "yes" or "no" to a few questions, are given a form by the computer, and after getting your checked luggage hand that form back to a Customs officer.

(I would imagine that GE works this way, but I don't have it. I entered at JFK this week and went right to the computer.)

More than one "nobody" character on FT. ;) ords and GUWonder are at least two people on FT who have discussed this in detail.

There are those of us on FT who are aware that written declaration forms aren't required to use the APC kiosks.

At JFK only DL's terminal 4 has APC kiosks. I most frequently use the APC kiosks at US CBP Preclearance in Canada and at ORD, with ORD being the first US airport with the machines deployed. GE too does not require the written forms. Both kinds of kiosks involve completion of the electronic form entries that come up on the kiosks. I have been using the APC kiosks at ORD months before DL got them at JFK. Even with APC kiosk use, CBP does look at passports of APC users at least sometimes.

The airline and/or airports have directly funded the APC kiosks.

Let me confess. I have traveled several times to Canada in the the last few years, but all have been by land crossings except for one. In fact, the one time I flew into Canada in this period I was turned away at the border and got a serious escort to my returning flight that did not include a lot of the regular stuff and included a few services that few passengers ever receive.

Therefore, I plead ignorance to the current air travel procedures and was working from a memory of at least ten years ago.

I was given to understand that APC facilities are available at a limited number of ports of entry.