Are you serious? Teenagers don't train for their mission. Sometimes they arrive at the bar already drunk. The stakes are much lower for a teenager who gets caught. What, the bar refuses to serve him? The terrorist may go to Guantanamo for the rest of his life. There is simply no comparison between these two types of people. And you should know that. :(

Bruce

How many of these "terrorists" train that well for their mission? Look at the absurdly stupid things some do - wires coming out of shoes, a liquid bomb plot that could have never worked according to those who've seriously studied it, etc. The terror plots that are uncovered tend to be half-baked ridiculous stupidity.

Yeah, OK, I give up. If only we had asked these guys to say their names. Then they would have been stopped at the checkpoint. :rolleyes:

Bruce

I didn't claim that, I don't even know if they used fake ID. I claimed that someone who isn't all there and has a homemade bomb, and isn't really a professional terrorist, per se MIGHT be stopped by a simple non-intrusive exercise even your local bar/nightclub will put you through.

Obviously, someone highly trained won't get caught but that's just NOT most of the recent terror plots that have been unveiled.

My last name can be and is pronounced at least 5 different ways. Unless one's last name is Smith or Jones or some other common name, there are different ways to pronounce hundreds of surnames. Do you really expect a document-checking screener to know the correct pronunciation of Kovačević or Djurhuus or Koskinen? These are all common surnames in their "countries of origin."

A TDC will never know if I'm stating my name correctly or not.

But that's not the goal, the goal is just to see if you know what name is on your ID.

People in Isreal do value their liberty, in fact they would know more about being deprived of there liberty than the majority of American Citizens.

Yes 911 was a deplorable event, but people in Isreal live with terrorist actions on an almost daily basis,. most of it is nor reported in the mainstream media as the mainstream media has an anti semetic bias.

I travel with EL AL a lot - and their security procedures are well thought out, well executed and not the ridiculous petty absurd I'm in a uniform with a badge tin pot authority that most TSA screeners have.

I am a blonde blue eyed Australian who does not fit the profile of someone who would travel to Israel, and once I get past that barrier, normally by answering the questions put to me in English in Hebrew, and maybe by producing my Israeli ID, its all over and done with politely and efficiently.

Homeland security is justified but the screening processes are nutz

So you're saying you need to be a local and answer in Hebrew to not be harassed in Israel? That seems more blatantly racist than anything that happens here in the States.

Dovster are you homophobic?

That's really missing the point. Neither the Israelis nor sensible Americans care very much about "racism" when their lives are at stake -- for real, as they are in Israel every day. Israelis want their security -- everywhere, not merely at airports -- to be effective. They want terrorists to be stopped before they can act, and they want innocent lives to be protected. In America, in marked contrast, the threats are far less immediate and real, and the "security" is mostly theater, designed to placate ignorant masses, not truly protect us from anything. The high-level folks who run American security know full well that the threat level is very low, so they can afford to engage in the sort of meaningless nonsense that TSA does day in and day out. In Israel, they simply can't afford to do that.

Bruce

I am not saying that you need to be local or fluent in Hebrew to pass EL AL security.

They are using the profiling method - which is working out who you are and why you are travelling in the pattern that meets an acceptable profile.

By answering in Hebrew and having local ID it changes their perception of the original perception they had of me.

As a blonde Blue Eyed Australian I could be a bona fide tourist going to Israel to visit the sights, or to do business, and as long as I answer the questions truthfully I will fit the profile of a tourist or business persons.

However the way I answer the questions (again truthfully) indicates that I am a regular visitor to Israel, that I have a valid reason to travel on EL AL and a valid Reason to travel to Israel, and that reason is friendly to the people of Israel and the original reason why EL AL has such strict security procedures.

May I add that as a person who has been hijacked by terrorists who had an anti semetic agenda I have nil issue with EL AL security procedures.

I do exercise my democratic right to choose which airline I fly on, and always choose to fly in and out of Tel Aviv on EL AL

Let's see -- I spent three years in the U.S. Army, including one in Vietnam. I also spent 15 years in the Israeli Army reserves, doing 30 days per year active duty.

I realize that these experiences might not compare with the heroics involved in refusing to say your name, but I do think they show that I value my liberty -- at least enough to put my life on the line.

You tell me: I presume that heterosexuals would be more likely to enjoy sexually touching members of the opposite sex and that homosexuals would be more likely to enjoy sexual touching people of the same sex.

Does that make me homophobic?

Only you can answer that question Dovster

A screener would never know if I am giving him the right name or not should I choose to mispronounce it. Heck, I could bring a certain close relative's ID and have my ticket in that name and I can guarantee you that the screener would never know I'm not that person.

If you don't believe that someone deliberately trying to get through a checkpoint with fraudulent ID doesn't know the name that's on that ID, then you are obtuse and/or extremely naive and I have a bridge I'd like to offer to you.

You must be joking.

Are you seriously trying to equate an underage American teenager - or college student - who is trying to score some booze with a fake ID, to a fanatical suicide bomber or hijacker who is attempting to kill hundreds of people in an act of blazing suicidal murder?

Well, maybe you know better than I. After all, I have never been either of those two things, so I don't have first-hand experience.

But my gut reaction is that there is, ahem, a TINY bit of difference in the physical, mental, and emotional states of those two types of people that would radically change their reactions to the Name Game.

What the heck, if you feel comfortable knuckling under to abuse of power because you think it MIGHT stop a terrorist who is traveling under a phony ID and is too stupid to remember his assumed name - not to mention the ridiculous idea that a TSO would even recognize the fact that the name doesn't match the ID - then have at it. Feel free to shout your name and destination from the rooftops. Why not add a few other details in there, like your home address and phone number, and the deactivation code to your home alarm system? It's all for your safety!