Darn. I just made fresh popcorn. I am sure it was a good read.

At least you made it to 34,664.

You can guess all you want. At least that's still permissible in this country.

But if you believe in what the TSA is doing, then you have no idea about any aspect of security.

Actually, the retired military ID card should have two dates: the card itself should be "INDEF" while the reverse, for medical care, should have the date you become eligible for Medicare. That was my case a number of years ago when I reached 65. I still have the ID card with "INDEF" but expired medical benefits.

Here is Korea, we have been told that photcopying a CAC has become a serious problem in that fake military/civilian employee ID cards have been made using color photocopiers with others' photos. We have been told that 18 U.S.C. § 701 allows for only very limited copying of ID cards, especially the CAC.

I have only been asked my name once by TSA, to which I responded with all three of my given names (my passport only has my first and "middle", not my third name). The agent didn't even blink and let me go.

OP wasn't trying to be the "keeper" of YOUR rights, he was attempting to freely exercise HIS OWN rights. Who are you to criticize?

Personal attacks (such as asserting that someone "must really be one unhappy person") tend to be the last resort of those for whom facts fail to prove a point. Kudos! You've proved with only one post that you have no factual basis for your opinions. Usually it takes a bunch of posts from someone for that to come to light.

How do you know? Are you privy to the education, background, and experiences of the various posted whom you are criticizing?

And while we're at it, how do you know what's in those intel memos? Are you privy to the Presidential Daily Briefings?*

Maybe you're the one who needs to get over yourself; you do NOT know whether or not the gubment knows more than the people you're tearing into - because you A) don't know what the gubment knows, and B) don't know anything about the people you're tearing into.

How much DO you know?

*NOTE: I know for a fact that you don't have access to any Classified material, because if you did, you wouldn't be arguing about it on an IBB in violation of your security clearance.

**PPS: None of the front-line TSOs have security clearances, either, so they don't know any of this top-level stuff you're spouting about and are generally less-informed than the general public whom they are ostensibly charged with protecting.

Hoooooooooooold on there, Babalooey! I'LL do the thin'in' around here!

Aren't YOU also sitting behind your computer pontificating?

Do you honestly consider being asked to say your name suffering?

I was given three boarding passes at TLV. One for my segment to JFK, one for JFK-ATL, and one for ATL-LAS. All were marked TSA Pre-Check (yes, including the TLV-JFK BP, which makes no sense at all).

When I got to JFK, I had to go through security again. I made a mistake and handed them my ATL-LAS BP, instead of the JFK-ATL one. Nobody paid attention, and the pass was marked with a red "E" which (at JFK at least) confirms my Pre-Check status.

Clearly the TSA did not notice that my boarding pass is invalid for getting into the sterile area at JFK. If, as a result of this, the TSA were to institute a rule that checkers had to ask where I am flying from/to and then to look at my BP to confirm it, would I "suffer" from answering that question?

Point taken. Perhaps we should substitute the phrase "Put up with another layer of theatre" for that w:rolleyes:rd. The point is that it's not doing us any good or making us any safer -- It's just giving the Thousands Standing Around more busy work that distracts them from looking for things that could actually harm us.

You're right. Much (no, not all) of what the TSA does is meaningless in terms of providing actual security. I know that, you know that, and I truly believe that TSA management knows that.

Israeli-type security, which is based on the concept of looking for terrorists instead of looking for weapons, is much more effective but for many reasons, including cultural ones, is not workable in the US.

Post 9/11, the government was left with three choices:

a. Institute a true security program, a la Israel. As noted above, this would not be possible in the US.

b. Put on a good dog and pony act which will restore confidence in airport security even if it a sham.

c. Keep the status quo and wind up shutting down the airports because there won't be enough people willing to fly.

They chose "B" because it was the only realistic possibility. To make it look good, more and more requirements were put into place, the couple-of-flights-per-year crowd (who are the ones who really fill up the airplanes) felt safe, and the ding-a-lings (like a poster here who claimed that she was "raped" because a magnetic wand touched her) were sensibly ignored by most people.

Then, however, the TSA did what most government agencies wind up doing -- it went overboard. When you have mass numbers of ordinary citizens getting felt up because they want to visit grandma (or grandma getting patted down all over because she is visiting the little ones), the reaction is not going to be a good one.

Joe Six Pack, Mrs. Six Pack, and all the little Six Packs started screaming. Politicos heard this and realized that while the Six Packs couldn't vote the TSA out of office, they could kick out their Congressmen and Senators.

The politicos are the ones who control the TSA budget and when they are unhappy, the TSA gets worried. At that point, and it is a fairly recent one, the TSA started backtracking. First it instituted Pre Check on a very limited scale and it is now giving it to everybody and his brother. In fact, a number of posters have complained that the Pre Check lines are taking longer than the regular ones.

The initial, limited, checks that the TSA performed were necessary to restore confidence. Very few people, with the exception of a few fanatics here on TS&S, complained when they were wanded because they beeped when going through the metal detectors.

Had the TSA stayed at that level (as have most countries throughout the world) the fanatics would still be here complaining but they would have remained laughable jokes. Unfortunately, it did not and everybody is the worse for it -- including the TSA itself.

There was another post-9/11 option:

d. Reinforce and lock cockpit doors to prevent hijacking. Cease advocating complete cooperation with attempted hijackers. Standardize screening methodology nationwide for all contractors. Screen 100% of cargo. Use sniffer dogs and ETD swabs and portals to look for explosives. Find and neutralize (kill or capture) Osama bin Laden and his high-level associates, who were responsible for planning and financing 9/11. And most of all, DON'T PANIC!

Instead, we established a massive federal agency who seem to think that no invasive, abusive, completely ineffective pseudo-security measure is too invasive or abusive, and turned over airport screening to a work force of 60,000 minimum wage flunkies with a couple of weeks of training and a Dirty Harry/Jack Bauer/Officer Barbrady/Barney Fife "respect my authoritah!" attitude and a shiny tin badge to match.

In short, as a nation we panicked, and that panic eventually morphed into rampant, neurotic paranoia, which played us into our enemies' hands.

We beat the Soviets in the Cold War. Now we're on the verge of becoming the Soviets.

Thing is, TSA and (most) US Gov don't think it's a sham.

I don't think that's true. I'm convinced that a number of them know full well it's a sham, but refuse to speak up for fear of losing their meal ticket and grope/theft privileges.

This. ^

Who needs to go to prison for fun times when you can get paid to commit sexual assault and steal at the checkpoint?

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner. ^^

Are the two of you contending that a disproportionate number of TSA screeners are gay or bi-sexual?

If not, I can't understand what you have posted.

I don't consider myself to be particularly naive but I am unaware of heterosexuals who get pleasure from groping/sexually assaulting people of the same gender.

With some very rare exceptions (specifically when there are only people of one gender on duty), opposite sex patdowns are not permitted. I know this for a fact as I have requested them on a few occasions.

I don't think those who are doing the groping do so in order to get sexual gratification. However; I am convinced that many TSA employees do enjoy the gropes because of the sense of power it give them. Being able to violate another person's privacy and personal dignity with impunity serves, for many TSA employees, to inflate their sense of importance and power. Bullying behavior is almost always about an insecure person seeking ways to demean others in an attempt to compensate for his own inadequacy. TSA provides a dream job for such people.

It'll become clear when you understand that sexual assault isn't primarily committed solely for sexual gratification.

It's a power-trippy thing.