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-   Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate-687/)
-   -   Requirement for speaking your name? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1398391-requirement-speaking-your-name.html)

bdschobel Jan 5, 2014 2:38 pm

And when did that become the government's concern?

Bruce

petaluma1 Jan 5, 2014 2:45 pm


Originally Posted by alexmt (Post 22090201)
Since none of those things have legal penalties affecting freedom of movement, no.

Last I checked, the terms of carriage on any commercial plane ticket are clear that they are NOT transferrable to another person.

Why don't you ask people in South Carolina, for example, who have been jailed for non-payment of child support and have had their right to travel abrogated by the state through disallowing the issuance or renewal of passports.

http://www.state.sc.us/dss/csed/enforce.htm



Those COC statements are there purely for the airline's bottom line and have NOTHING to do with preventing terrorism.

FredAnderssen Jan 5, 2014 2:46 pm


Originally Posted by alexmt (Post 22090201)
Last I checked, the terms of carriage on any commercial plane ticket are clear that they are NOT transferrable to another person.

Every step of the way on my last trip, the airline representatives checked my passport and boarding pass before my getting on a plane. I understand that. That's the price I pay for flying those particular airlines, as I'm traveling under their rules.

What does any of this have to do with the TSA?

chollie Jan 5, 2014 2:49 pm


Originally Posted by alexmt (Post 22090201)
Since none of those things have legal penalties affecting freedom of movement, no.

Last I checked, the terms of carriage on any commercial plane ticket are clear that they are NOT transferrable to another person.

What's that got to do with someone traveling under a fake name with matching ID and BP?

And if you don't ask for ID or other proof from an under-18 child, you have no idea if he/she is the individual named on the BP. That's a double risk: they may be traveling under a 'transferred' ticket and they aren't subject to the more stringent screening protocols adults are.

FWIW, I want to reiterate that no one is more cringing and obedient and obsequious than I am at a checkpoint. All "yessir, yes ma'am", avoid eye contact, quiet voice, immediate compliance, when a TDC said "you don't look very cheerful today" I immediately drummed up a smile to avoid trouble, even when I was catching a flight to a hospital death bed', when one snatched my BP/ID back and said 'what do you say now?', I dutifully answered 'thank you, sir'. If they demand that I sing my name three times, clap my hands and touch my toes, I do it.

AllieKat Jan 5, 2014 2:50 pm


Originally Posted by bdschobel (Post 22090224)
And when did that become the government's concern?

Bruce

My understanding is that the TSA is funded by airlines, thus it's also serving as an inspection point for the airlines.

Spiff Jan 5, 2014 2:52 pm


Originally Posted by alexmt (Post 22090302)
My understanding is that the TSA is funded by airlines, thus it's also serving as an inspection point for the airlines.

Your understanding is incorrect. TSA is funded through passenger extortion receipts + taxes taken at gunpoint from the populace. Tony Soprano (RIP) would be proud.

Carl Johnson Jan 5, 2014 3:04 pm


Originally Posted by FredAnderssen (Post 22090106)
Easily occur? Wow, we've named two scenarios which have the probability of occurring exactly how often? One time in a million? And how much manpower have we wasted harassing innocent passengers just to catch a twin sneaking in on his brother's ticket?

The twin scenario may not happen much now, but Chang and Eng Bunker used to do it all the time.

chollie Jan 5, 2014 3:12 pm


Originally Posted by alexmt (Post 22090302)
My understanding is that the TSA is funded by airlines, thus it's also serving as an inspection point for the airlines.

Your understanding is wrong.

Further, why should TSA function as an inspection point for the airlines? Why should I, a private citizen, subsidize the airlines' revenue enforcement policies with my tax dollars?

ND Sol Jan 5, 2014 3:25 pm


Originally Posted by alexmt (Post 22090302)
My understanding is that the TSA is funded by airlines, thus it's also serving as an inspection point for the airlines.

So you should readily be able to show us the C.F.R. that grants the TSA this authority. At the screening checkpoint, I have only found the authority for the TSA to search for WEI.

RadioGirl Jan 5, 2014 6:49 pm

In addition to the (numerous, excellent) points made by jkhuggins and WillCAD in post #172 and #173, the name game also gives TSA employees an (additional :rolleyes:) opportunity to harrass non-English speakers. :td:

Airport security in other countries does not require passengers to say their name (or even, in many countries, to show an ID) and so the demand at a US airport comes unexpectedly for a foreign visitor. The passenger may reply with "What?" or "Excuse me?" or "I don't understand" in their own language, rather than saying their name. And then there's going to be a time-wasting argument.

Originally Posted by petaluma1 (Post 22087950)
My last name can be and is pronounced at least 5 different ways. Unless one's last name is Smith or Jones or some other common name, there are different ways to pronounce hundreds of surnames. Do you really expect a document-checking screener to know the correct pronunciation of Kovačević or Djurhuus or Koskinen? These are all common surnames in their "countries of origin."

A TDC will never know if I'm stating my name correctly or not.

And this would be compounded if Mr Koskinen and Mrs Djurhuus had a limited grasp of English or was hard of hearing.

Many Gaelic, Scottish or English names are also counterintuitive. I can easily imagine the TDC thinking they've made the "big catch" because the ID says "Niamh Featherstonhaugh" and the person says "neeve fan-shaw".

To TSA, the foreign visitors or people with difficult names are only a minority (and suspicious anyway) and so the inconvenience to them can be ignored. But Niamh and St John Dalziel, and Siobhan Cholmondeley have to put up with this idiotic process every time they fly.

Ghadji1 Jan 5, 2014 7:00 pm

Refused to say my name, got through anyway
 
When I travel in Australia I don't have to show my ID, say my name, NOR show my boarding pass to get through security. How many terror attacks have occurred in an Aussie airport? Or Aussie soil for that matter?

RadioGirl Jan 5, 2014 8:15 pm


Originally Posted by Ghadji1 (Post 22091760)
When I travel in Australia I don't have to show my ID, say my name, NOR show my boarding pass to get through security. How many terror attacks have occurred in an Aussie airport? Or Aussie soil for that matter?

For domestic travel within Australia, I print my BP online or from a kiosk, drop my checked bag at an automated station, go through security without showing any papers, wordlessly hand my BP to an airline agent who scans the barcode, and board the plane, where the FA glances at the BP long enough to tell me where my seat is. In other words, from the moment I arrive at airport A to the moment I leave airport B, NO ONE checks my ID and NO ONE asks me any official questions.

The most intense human interaction in the entire airport process is the Qantas Club attendant checking my membership card. :D

And I can do it with my shoes on, and with 7 kilograms of water, wine, shampoo, snow globes or cupcakes in my carry-on. ^^

There are some small airports in Australia which have no security checks. Passengers arriving from such ports at, say, SYD, go through security on arrival before entering the terminal.

(But I am disappointed that Australian int'l airports have been infested with the NoS, which appears to be a gesture to the Americans.)

Schmurrr Jan 5, 2014 10:11 pm


Originally Posted by bdschobel (Post 22087864)
Are you serious? Teenagers don't train for their mission. Sometimes they arrive at the bar already drunk. The stakes are much lower for a teenager who gets caught. What, the bar refuses to serve him? The terrorist may go to Guantanamo for the rest of his life. There is simply no comparison between these two types of people. And you should know that. :(

I am pretty sure the bouncers apply the technique selectively, too. You know, based on things like actual data and risk assessment.

bdschobel Jan 6, 2014 2:11 am


Originally Posted by alexmt (Post 22090302)
My understanding is that the TSA is funded by airlines, thus it's also serving as an inspection point for the airlines.

Your understanding of so many things is so wrong! You write like an adult -- that's a compliment -- but I'm going to repeat another poster's question: "How old are you?" Your naivete about how the world works is child-like.

Bruce

AllieKat Jan 6, 2014 4:12 am


Originally Posted by bdschobel (Post 22093439)
Your understanding of so many things is so wrong! You write like an adult -- that's a compliment -- but I'm going to repeat another poster's question: "How old are you?" Your naivete about how the world works is child-like.

Bruce

I'm in my late 20's and not uneducated at all, I'm an MBA student and I've lived in nine cites.


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