In other news: JFK airport operations announced today that they will create a special room in each terminal to allow TSA personnel and DYKWIA passengers to have pissing contests. Common sense and basic kindness not required.

Like everyone else I disagree.

You missed the key words surrendered and authorized representative. Surrendered means to be forced to give and implies a permanence. I may need to present identification to the TDC that is not surrendering nor is it permanent.


Passports are issued via the State Department. The TSA which is part of the Dept. of Homeland Security have no authority to force a passenger surrendered anything at the check point. One way or another if the TSA takes anything a LEO is going to be called whether by the PAX as in this case or if the TSA thinks a law has been broken.

When a court order someone to surrender their passport there are specific steps they must go through.

it's been a while since I've played NameGame, but my usual response was "yes, I realize you're required to ask my name, and we both acknowledge that you've done that. But I'm not required by law to respond, so since you've completed your required duties, and you can see that my name matches on my BP and ID, I guess we're done here"

It has always resulted with a "have a nice flight" without further escalation.

1)I wonder what the people in line behind you were thinking/saying during this entire episode. I for one would have been livid.
2) you actually called 911 for a non-emergency such as this? You are lucky they were so polite with you.
3) it's not unconstitutional to ask you for your name. I hardly think it would constitute and unreasonable search since the passport and boarding pass already have your name on it. And you don't have a constitutional right to fly on an airplane. You could have simply turned around, left and driven to your destination.
4) the passport is certainly not your property and the TSA agent is an officer of the US government and is certainly entitled to confiscate it. They probably couldn't if you were flying domestic and didn't present it, but if you willingly gave it to them as means of identification, then why would they not have the ability to keep it for a short period?
5) Do you really derive pleasure from abusing TSA employees who are just following their instructions? Whatever you think of these people, they are not likely compensated enough for dealing with air travelers. Abusing people like this when you would never dream of behaving this way in front of a congressman or high level Homeland security official (who is certainly more to blame for these rules than a TSA agent) is likely a sign of poor character.
If mouthing off in a security line is what is seen as courage and civil disobedience, then this country is doomed.
I'm sure Patrick Henry and Martin Luther King would be proud...

In common law theft is unlawful taking, not "intent to keep". Is it not theft in your world if someone takes something with the intent to immediately fence it? I'd e interested to know what jurisdiction you're in where the common law interpretation has been overturned.



You're missing three important points: 1, it isn't relevant in the slightest other than from a "direct threat" POV (TSA checkpoints aren't war zones and statistically have zero threat, so get over that one) and, 2. TSA has no role in being interested in whether someone is "calm and relaxed" for any given pax in and airport as they try to reach their gate, and 3. TSA has no role in law other than to screen for WEI. Matching pax names is a revenue exercise for airlines and nothing more. Asking pax to say their names is a waste of everyone's time as it contributes nothing to the screening of WEI.

TSA has one and only one remit under law and they have spent the past ~12 years busily trying to expand past it.

If I was having the interaction the OP was having with the TSA employees and you were behind me getting livid, I really wouldn't give a damn.


I'm also pleasantly surprised they did not get annoyed.

It's not Unconstitutional to ask, but it would be Unconstitutional to require an answer. It is none of the TSA's business. There is no amendment to the Constitution ceding the right to freely travel to the government. Get your facts straight.

The passport is not up for grabs for anyone who cares to take it. The TSA employee is no officer of the government, regardless of what made-up titles this disgusting, un-American agency has given itself. Regardless, while they may inspect it if voluntarily presented, they may not abscond with it, without the owner's permission.

"I was only following orders." Where have we heard that before? Compared to the crimes committed by TSA employees, the OP's response is hardly that of abuse.

They are over-compensated. They should not have the "jobs" that they do, nor should they be permitted to execute them in the manner that they do. Firing all of them would be a kindness; many, if not most of them belong in prison.

I would dearly love Pissant to present himself at a TSA "security" checkpoint and attempt to execute the disgusting actions of his subordinates. @:-)

I think they would encourage mass civil disobedience, not just the sporadic acts such as the one the OP bravely committed. Patrick Henry might encourage behavior that would be considered "unlawful", not merely civil disobedience.

I really didnt think the OP would care either, he doesn't strike me as the considerate type. I also doubt he would have engaged in this behaior if it was only 20 minutes prior to his flight, either.




I do have my facts straight. I am certain you do not have the constitutional right to travel to your destination by plane. If you dont accept the TSA as agents of the govenment, then they are agents of the airline. They certainly have no obligation to fly you anywhere.
I stand by my original statement: OP's travel was not restricted at all. He had every right to not say another word, leave the area and find alternative means of transport to his destination.




The OP voluntarily gave it to the TSA staff and was in plain sight during the encounter. This is not absconding with it and it is certainly not theft. This is an example of someone who wants to continue his pissing match with TSA.


Are we really comparing this to the Nazis? Seriously?

The fact of the matter is that most people who behave in this manner view the TSA employees as inferior, uneducated, whatever. All I was pointing out that treating these people badly is a sign of poor character. It's like the guy who yells at the cashier in Burger King. Sure you might have a an actual complaint, but why?


Firefighters are brave, the woman who was shot by the Taliban for going to school was brave. This guy is an overzealous DYKWIA. In fact, I have my doubts as to whether this actually happened.

Perhaps if more people harassed screeners change could be effected.


You have no idea whether or not the either the OP or any of us have contacted our MOCs. I, for one, do so on a regular basis and I know there are others who do the same while still "picking fights" at checkpoints.



Are you a BDO? I imagine that most people going through a TSA checkpoint are NOT "calm and relaxed."

I just stand there like I can't hear and eventually they wave me through.

So I am curious, did OP follow up with any sort of formal written complaint, or just walk away when all this was said and done? If you're going to go through all this to prove a point and follow through with an official complaint, then fine. If not, then the entire episode is a waste of effort on all sides.

That would be the definition of larceny, not theft. Theft it still with intent to deprive the rightful owner of his ownership, which isn't at all clear from the post anyone tried to do.


That's certainly your opinion and you are entitled to it.

I doubt that very much.

Definitely I'm not. I can just note that El Al seem to have a procedure that in Europe at least includes more in depth questionings than do the TSA and people are required to answer them and their job is to assess people.

People in Israel must not value their liberty like we do here...

So you think he's inconsiderate because he stands up to bullying behavior which has nothing to do with security? I think he's quite brave. Do a search for those who stand up to the TSA when it comes to traveling with breast milk, colostomy bags, are wheelchair bound, or have small children. Do you also think they're being inconsiderate for standing up to the TSA?

How are you so certain? Can you quote any pertinent legal precedent for your certainty? Does one have the constitutional right to travel at all in the U.S., in your opinion? If so, by what means? Bus, car, train, bicycle, by foot?

Of course they're agents of the government, but not those with authority to do whatever they want. For example, they don't have the authority to arrest as other agents (LEOs) have.

Then by the very definition, he would have been restricted. Time to destination can also be seen as a restriction, and obviously not allowing him to board a plane is restricting one possibility for him to travel. As an example, how would you get to Hawaii if you weren't allowed to board a plane? Can the government restrict boat travel as well?

If someone walks away with something of mine, then it certainly is theft. The assumption is that the TSO is going to look at the passport, not walk away with it. You said that the OP had the right to leave the area. How was he to do this when his items were taken from him?

There's a huge difference between being a TSA employee and being a Burger King employee: working at Burger King is an honorable profession and requires a modicum of intelligence.

Being brave is not a binary proposition. There are many levels of being brave, and the OP, though not as brave as the people you mentioned, has a certain amount of bravery.

Why would you doubt it? According to you, this person wasn't even brave. He/she could have embellished the story to impress even you, but didn't. If you don't think it happened because you believe the TSA isn't capable of such outlandish things, check out the sock puppet whose gun was confiscated on another thread here.

Monkey. It was a sock monkey.

The sock puppets are the ones posting in support of the TSA. ;)

I don't. I think a guy showing his ... because he was asked to say his name is. These are not equivalent things.



I am not a constituional scholar and I don't have legal precedent to cite because, well, this is an internet message board and not a courtroom.
I have the right to travel, but not the right to expect someone to take me there. Buy my own plane, I can within reason do what I want, Fly on someone esle's plane, follow their rules.



Buy or charter your own plane. get on a boat. Buy a boat. build a raft. You have a choice. Trade the convenience of air travel for some inconvenience at a checkpoint. It annoys me, it is security theater. i get angry just when i see the line. But a violation of my constitutional rights? No way...



It's not theft if you willingly give it to them, they keep it in plain sight and give it back to you after a short time. In no jurisdiction would this be prosecuted.



Everyone displays a certain amount of bravery, even getting up and going to work every day. i just don't believe this behavior reaches the threshold to be commented on as such.

I'll give you this one. why would someone make up a story that makes them look like an idiot who is behaving like a petuant child. I take it back.