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The 2021/22 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

The 2021/22 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

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Old Jul 5, 22, 6:27 am
  #1681  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
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Hi All,
I've just had a claim incorrectly rejected by BA & before I respond to them I wanted to check the collective wisdom here.

I flew back from Tirana 19th June; flight from London landed 2:20 late into Tirana. After boarding Captain announced the delay was due to a technical issue on the plane at Heathrow delaying departure. We were then delayed by a further 1.5 hrs due to ATC restrictions due to us losing our slot because of the late arrival into Tirana (according to Captain). We ended up landing just over 4 hours late, so we're due compensation.

BA have rejected claim saying the plane leaving LHR was due to baggage system failure in T3 & weather. Captain or crew did not mention either of these factors.

I'm minded to go back and ask for proof that there was no technical issue on departure from LHR; any other advice?

Thanks!
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Old Jul 5, 22, 7:57 am
  #1682  
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Originally Posted by Ells View Post
BA have rejected claim saying the plane leaving LHR was due to baggage system failure in T3 & weather. Captain or crew did not mention either of these factors.

I'm minded to go back and ask for proof that there was no technical issue on departure from LHR; any other advice?
There's no point asking for proof, Customer Relations are not investigating individual complaints in detail. But my reading of your submission is that if there had been no ATC problem (which is often weather related) then you would have been about 2.5 hours late? If so then no compensation would be payable. ATC delays are considered extraordinary circumstances.
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Old Jul 5, 22, 8:33 am
  #1683  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
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Asking for a friend here and having read the wiki and some of this thread, it seem like an unusual situation.

They were scheduled to fly AGP-LHR last week - that flight was cancelled on the day with the code 'CCRY' which I think means lack of crew, and 'Yes' for compensation.
They were rebooked but the only option that day (which they accepted) was AGP-MAD-LHR departing at 17.35 instead of 18.50 on the same day.
Having left more than 1 hour earlier than originally planned, I believe compensation should be due (£175, I think?) and he duly claimed. BA have come back and offered 10,000 Avios instead of money.
So, can somebody confirm, is the claim valid as I think it is, and is £175 right? (I wasn't sure about £ or EUR) and are BA having a laugh with the offer which I value at £100 (assuming one wants airline credit rather than cash!).
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Old Jul 5, 22, 8:33 am
  #1684  
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
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I am dealing with a claim through CEDR at the moment and one of the reasons given was weather. It was a MAN-LHR flight and I know for a fact that there were no weather issues (weather was actually very pleasant). I obtained historical weather data and attached with my response. I can't remember which site I used, there are several e.g. https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/uk/london/historic
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Old Jul 5, 22, 8:57 am
  #1685  
 
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Well, there was an ATC delay but the captain had confirmed that this was due to how late we were running (due to the technical issue at LHR) and had therefore lost our slot. The captain was also great with keeping us informed and at no point referenced weather, so I'm not sure how BA can now be using weather now as the reason...
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Old Jul 5, 22, 9:32 am
  #1686  
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Originally Posted by Ells View Post
Well, there was an ATC delay but the captain had confirmed that this was due to how late we were running (due to the technical issue at LHR) and had therefore lost our slot. The captain was also great with keeping us informed and at no point referenced weather, so I'm not sure how BA can now be using weather now as the reason...
ATC delays happen for many reasons, shortage of staff is a key one at the moment, but poor weather en route or nearby leads to ATC reducing flow rates or holding back slot times. Clearly if you think that without the technical issue there would have been no ATC led delays then you have a case, but you won't get BA to dig into that this side of CEDR or MCOL. If BA is able to argue persuasively that the delay was due to a combination of both factors then it's much harder to be successful with an EC261 claim.
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Old Jul 5, 22, 9:34 am
  #1687  
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Originally Posted by volar View Post
They were rebooked but the only option that day (which they accepted) was AGP-MAD-LHR departing at 17.35 instead of 18.50 on the same day.
With cancellation we need both the original departure time, the rebooked departure time, the original arrival time and the rebooked arrival time, in order to work out the sums.
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Old Jul 5, 22, 9:38 am
  #1688  
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Originally Posted by burb View Post
Hello, I have had a quick look but couldnít see anything related and was wondering if someone could please let me know where I would stand on compensation for the over 4 hour delay on BA275 LHR to LAS from this past Wednesday (29 June) as it left the tarmac in London at 9:32pm UK arriving in Vegas at 23:22 local time (delay was 4 hours and 2 minutes).

No explanation has been given.
That is highly unusual. There is usually a pre-flight briefing from the flight deck and I can't recall a single delay over 10 minutes where the flight deck has not given chapter and verse as to any delays. If it happens again, ask the cabin crew, ideally the IFL or IFM, exactly what went on. We sometimes get some clues on the dispatch system but after about 2 or 3 days the information gets scrubbed. In this situation I would just claim. It's not actually your job to prove the claim, it's BA's job to dis-prove it.
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Old Jul 5, 22, 9:41 am
  #1689  
 
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Thanks for the response; will give it a go and see where it ends up
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Old Jul 5, 22, 10:15 am
  #1690  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
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Iím sorry for my ignorance but I just thought Iíd check with the collective wisdom here.

Back in March my return sector AMS-LHR was cancelled a few hours prior to departure due to the lack of staff below the wing at LHR. It was a total cancellation of the round trip for the aircraft and it stayed in LHR.

At the time I made a post about following the wisdom here to get myself out of the pickle at BAís expense as per my rights. The letter issued by agents acting for BA and issued by BA made zero reference to compensation for the cancellation, just that we should spend and claim for hotels, etc etc

My question is this. Even though I was able to be rebooked to depart that evening on KLM instead, and in Business, am I entitled to compensation for the cancellation?

the original BA AMS LHR was scheduled 2055-2115. The rebooking had me departing 2035 and I arrived on the gate at LHR at 2048, so just under 30 mins prior to when I should have arrived. Now obviously that is a win on its own, but as per the regulation, is it eligible for compensation reduced to 50% due to the timings?

Last edited by ACARS; Jul 5, 22 at 10:28 am
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Old Jul 5, 22, 10:16 am
  #1691  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
That is highly unusual. There is usually a pre-flight briefing from the flight deck and I can't recall a single delay over 10 minutes where the flight deck has not given chapter and verse as to any delays. If it happens again, ask the cabin crew, ideally the IFL or IFM, exactly what went on. We sometimes get some clues on the dispatch system but after about 2 or 3 days the information gets scrubbed. In this situation I would just claim. It's not actually your job to prove the claim, it's BA's job to dis-prove it.
thanks for the response, much appreciated 🙂
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Old Jul 5, 22, 10:33 am
  #1692  
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Originally Posted by ACARS View Post
the original BA AMS LHR was scheduled 2055-2115. The rebooking had me departing 2035 and I arrived on the gate at LHR at 2048, so just under 30 mins prior to when I should have arrived. Now obviously that is a win on its own, but as per the regulation, is it eligible for compensation reduced to 50% due to the timings?
If you were rebooked by BA to KLM off a cancelled service, what matters isn't so much your actual times for the rebooked service, but the scheduled times. So what I would need is the scheduled times of the new (KLM) flight. It doesn't like in scope from the clues given.
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Old Jul 5, 22, 11:35 am
  #1693  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
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As a data point for you all, I just received an email from BA Customer Relations after a 25-day wait stating they will pay £517.47 in EU rules compensation for cancellation of BA212 on 8-June. They also agreed to cover £575.28 in out of pocket expenses (mostly hotel- there was an NBA final on...).

They told me my request for a refund due to downgrade from CW to Y on the rebooked flight (the next day) has been passed on to the Refunds team. I had also asked for Tier points for the booked journey in CW to be credited and they referred me to the Executive Club Service Centre for that. BTW, am I entitled to CW Tier points if I flew in Y due to a forced downgrade?
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Old Jul 5, 22, 11:39 am
  #1694  
 
Join Date: Nov 2021
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What a lovely day... and lovely helpful posts on here, that I should really read to the end of the topic before responding...

** Edited to remove self-incriminating evidence of rashness and stupidity

Last edited by sayling; Jul 5, 22 at 11:45 am Reason: ** Edited to remove self-incriminating evidence of rashness and stupidity
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Old Jul 5, 22, 2:47 pm
  #1695  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
Well that's indeed incorrect. But this means you can quote CJEU case LE v Transportes Aťreos Portugueses SA (case C-74/19), since their refusal to book on that service makes them liable for EC261 even if they think the original cancellation was extraordinary circumstances. Make sure you quote that case in any CEDR or MCOL submission. However fundamentally you can argue that just because HAL asks for something, doesn't void the need to do the right thing for the passenger, given that it was BA's decision to cancel your flight and BA decision not to offer a rebooking at the earliest opportunity. If you are able, I would be tempted to go MCOL but it is more work and you may have to attend a court hearing.
BA responded:

Thanks for contacting us about your claim for EU compensation. We're sorry it was necessary to cancel flight, BA0373, on 20 June. I understand this is something you feel strongly about and I appreciate why you're unhappy with our previous reply.

Iíve had another look at your claim for compensation and Iíve taken time to make sure our response is accurate and up-to-date. Based on this, our decision hasnít changed and the response youíve received about the eligibility of your EU compensation claim are correct.

Your flight was cancelled because Heathrow Airport Limited asked airlines to reduce their flight schedule by 10% due to the ongoing baggage issues. Therefore, it means youíre not eligible for EU compensation.

Article 5.3 of the EU Regulation 261/2004 states a carrier is not obliged to pay compensation if it can prove the delay or cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances, that couldnít have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken. In Recital 14 and 15 of EU Regulation 261/2004, extraordinary circumstances include weather, strike and the impact of an air traffic management decision which gives rise to a long delay. This means youíre not entitled to compensation under the EU Regulation for your cancelled flight.
Down the MCOL route I go!
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