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The 2021/22 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

The 2021/22 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

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Old Jun 30, 22, 1:16 am
  #1561  
 
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Originally Posted by JackDann View Post
Can I ask the experts among us - What would be the benefit of going through CEDR as opposed to MCOL? Considering iíve read stories of the CEDR process taking such a long time.
My most recent experience was through MCOL which was quick easy and painless. One has to pay £35 to file which I guess is at risk - but itís not daunting at all and all online.
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Old Jun 30, 22, 1:24 am
  #1562  
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Originally Posted by JackDann View Post
Can I ask the experts among us - What would be the benefit of going through CEDR as opposed to MCOL? Considering iíve read stories of the CEDR process taking such a long time.
There are some comments about this in the main thread for EC261 but in essence
- CEDR is free to use, reasonably consumer friendly in terms of dialogue, not quick, and outcomes are very strictly, too strictly precedent based. They are paid by BA so it's not truly independent. Some of their staff appear poorly trained in broader consumer rights. CEDR is able to cope with Avios better than MCOL. It's just less scary than MCOL.
- MCOL has costs, first to register the claim and then to force a court hearing, £100 isn't unusual. It's more difficult to access and to do your claim justice it requires some research and homework. However once in the system the judicial system, it's processed efficiently, and it recognises the bias that is explicitly in EC261's wording, which says that the Regulation is intended to give a high level of consumer protection. CEDR seems to take little interest in this
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Old Jun 30, 22, 1:30 am
  #1563  
 
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Originally Posted by JackDann View Post
Can I ask the experts among us - What would be the benefit of going through CEDR as opposed to MCOL? Considering iíve read stories of the CEDR process taking such a long time.
both could take long time. CEDR is free to the customer whilst MCOL you need to pay a fee. CEDR decision is mandatory for the airline so if they say they have to pay than they have to pay. CEDR can award non monetary resolutions whilst MCOL cannot. MCOL could go appeal if the airline wishes to.
simple cases as such above can go to CEDR as not much to argue. More complicated cases especially if your argument based on legal precedent or legal argument then MCOL is clearer as a judge can see your argument legally fine or not. Cases such as ticket validity, eu rebooking to other airline cases, etc most likely better with MCOL.
above is just a very generic overview.
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Old Jun 30, 22, 3:04 am
  #1564  
 
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I had a cancelled flight (AMS-LHR) the other day, cancelled at 3 days notice. Only rebooking option was a flight departing 2.5h earlier. I believe this is eligible for compensation as <7D notice and no options within -1hr and +2hr. Question is would the reduced Ä125 apply as I had no delay in arrival (despite lossing a good chunk of my trip with the earlier flight).
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Old Jun 30, 22, 3:08 am
  #1565  
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Originally Posted by barneyb View Post
I had a cancelled flight (AMS-LHR) the other day, cancelled at 3 days notice. Only rebooking option was a flight departing 2.5h earlier. I believe this is eligible for compensation as <7D notice and no options within -1hr and +2hr. Question is would the reduced Ä125 apply as I had no delay in arrival (despite lossing a good chunk of my trip with the earlier flight).
They may well pay the 125Ä relatively quickly and that will be their application of the relevant wording. There is a debate upthread as to whether that is correct and CJEU has made some udgements which would restrict the 50% cut. But you won't get that easily, as things stand.
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Old Jun 30, 22, 3:10 am
  #1566  
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Originally Posted by mattoo View Post
OK thanks for the info. Apparently it taxied back to stand tech before getting airborne nearly 6hrs late. Anticipating a refusal for EU261Ö!
Those on board would have been given a clear reason for this, but if you can allocate 3 or more hours to technical issues and related factors under BA's control then that takes you over the threshold for a potential claim.
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Old Jun 30, 22, 3:41 am
  #1567  
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Originally Posted by KARFA View Post
Quick sense check.

Last weekend I went to ARN. On the ay out on Friday I got an email saying my ARN-LHR and ARN-NCL flights for Sunday were cancelled. On checking actually it was only the LHR-NCL which was actually cancelled, reason code OPEY. Anyway called BA, only avia;ability to NCL or MAN on Sunday were the ~9pm flights so I stuck with my 1110 departure from ARN and agree to cancel off the domestic and get the train home instead.

Roll on Sunday, woke up and thought I would check whether the ARN-LHR flight looked on time. Showed as cancelled in the app, no email or text. Reason code OPEY. Nothing available for the rest of the day so was booked on the flight on Monday. A few hours later The 2110 flight on Sunday showed J1 so called back and got on that. Overnight at LHR (I was frugal and booked the PI T4) and train home on Monday morning.

So my questions. Firstly it seems to me this is two cancellations so two lots of compensation are due. Do I do a completely separate claim for each cancellation? Also I think the hotel and train costs are claimable, probably best to attach them to the claim for ARN-LHR? I had no other option to get home since I was arriving back in to LHR at 2300.
Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
There have been some cases where 2 lots of compensation has been paid (usually involving court processes, it has to be said). So one case was a late cancellation, leading to a rebooked flight, different flight numbers. In turn that new flight was heavily delayed in its own right. So these look like 2 unrelated incidents, and thus 2 lots of compensation. Now on a sense check basis this looks to me to be one incident - lack of staff - affecting two flights, but at separate times. To my mind this looks like 1 incident, but other people will be able to coherently argue it's 2 incidents. Obviously you can apply for 2 incidents and take it to CEDR if necessary, I suspect that they will call it one incident, but that's just a guess. MCOL may be more successful, but even then I can see a judge taking a broader view here and regard one payment as fixing the injury.

The hotel and train fare is claimable, but it's worth reiterating that BA can ticket on LNER, it's just that many agents are unaware they can do so.
Originally Posted by Tobias-UK View Post
Firstly it seems to me this is two cancellations so two lots of compensation are due.
I concur.
Update - BA have replied and are paying up on two lots of compensation, one for each cancellation. They have said no to the hotel (£56) for Sunday night, and no to the train (£36) for Monday morning on the basis I had already agreed to drop the LHR-NCL flight when the first cancellation happened, so as far as they are concerned BA stop being on the hook for duty of care once I arrived at LHR. They have already done a part refund for the LHR-NCL sector for £91. So seems like a fair outcome overall.

Last edited by KARFA; Jun 30, 22 at 3:49 am
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Old Jun 30, 22, 3:45 am
  #1568  
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Originally Posted by orbitmic View Post
To be honest, so far, I have merely tersely answered and hope that the CEDR notice the discrepancy when they check compliance (I can't see if I have a way of communicating with them as now it looks like the only messages options open on the website are to the airline since I accepted the CEDR's decision). Contempt was a figure of speech, but I do find BA's behaviour frankly shocking. They should consider themselves lucky that with CEDR the worst that ever happens to them is to have to pay what they should have paid all along and with money they wrongly kept on their account for months. They do not even have the decency to then pay what the adjudicator asks them to.
So it went quickly this time - BA were told the binding ruling was for £350 and they have now confirmed that they have arranged for it to be paid. I don't know if it was my message that triggered this or if CEDR would have concluded that BA had not complied even if I had not said anything, but either way, I still find it incredible that BA are wasting all of our times, even after having been clearly found at fault in the original case.
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Old Jun 30, 22, 3:51 am
  #1569  
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It does again suggest it's best not to cancel out services before you get home to keep Right to Care alive, though of course you needed ARN-LHR to be reinstated. But yes, overall you can't really complain even if the details don't quite look right.
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Old Jun 30, 22, 3:57 am
  #1570  
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Originally Posted by KARFA View Post
Update - BA have replied and are paying up on two lots of compensation, one for each cancellation. They have said no to the hotel (£56) for Sunday night, and no to the train (£36) for Monday morning on the basis I had already agreed to drop the LHR-NCL flight when the first cancellation happened, so as far as they are concerned BA stop being on the hook for duty of care once I arrived at LHR. They have already done a part refund for the LHR-NCL sector for £91. So seems like a fair outcome overall.
This is the correct result, once you accepted the change and dropped the LHR-NCL for refund, the airline's obligations for UK261 ended in respect to that sector and again once you arrived at LHR.
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Old Jun 30, 22, 4:05 am
  #1571  
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Originally Posted by Frequentflyer99 View Post
I don't think contempt will assist you, but a Statutory Demand might get their attention ! Sadly you won't be able to follow up with a winding-up petition as you are very well below the relevant threshold, but I suspect that service of the Stat Demand would at least get the issue referred up the tree
I appreciate this may be a tongue-in-cheek suggestion, but it would be foolish to issue a Statutory Demand that is defective because it does not meet the legal requirements. A Statutory Demand is a legal document with serious repercussions. Once it is issued a company will take the demand seriously and if it is defective they will make an application to the court to have the Statutory Demand set aside - that will incur significant legal costs and court fees.
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Old Jun 30, 22, 4:17 am
  #1572  
 
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A lost bag/essential replacements question. I hope I am in the right place. My checked bag was lost last night in the bowels of T5, coming back from Europe. I am travelling to DOH shortly and need to get basic clothing replacements, amongst other items, for the next stage of my trip. I have little time, work to do, and do not fancy trekking off to Staines or Hounslow. Is it reasonable in these circumstances to buy replacement t-shirts, underwear etc. from Paul Smith, Gucci etc and expense these to BA? As far as I am aware there are only clothes shops in T4 that cater to millionnaires.
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Old Jun 30, 22, 4:20 am
  #1573  
 
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Originally Posted by Tobias-UK View Post
I appreciate this may be a tongue-in-cheek suggestion, but it would be foolish to issue a Statutory Demand that is defective because it does not meet the legal requirements. A Statutory Demand is a legal document with serious repercussions. Once it is issued a company will take the demand seriously and if it is defective they will make an application to the court to have the Statutory Demand set aside - that will incur significant legal costs and court fees.
It was only partially tongue in cheek ! For the record it is actually not possible to apply to set aside a Stat Demand served on a co: the correct course would be to seek an injunction restraining presentation of a petition. Any such application would inevitably be preceded by a letter from BA's legal advisers. The Stat Demand would then have served its purpose of getting someone to look at whether the money is owing or not. I am not for a moment suggesting that matters are taken beyond that point.
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Old Jun 30, 22, 4:24 am
  #1574  
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Originally Posted by Tobias-UK View Post
I appreciate this may be a tongue-in-cheek suggestion, but it would be foolish to issue a Statutory Demand that is defective because it does not meet the legal requirements. A Statutory Demand is a legal document with serious repercussions. Once it is issued a company will take the demand seriously and if it is defective they will make an application to the court to have the Statutory Demand set aside - that will incur significant legal costs and court fees.
I certainly wouldn't go that route. Quite frankly, I think I had two potentially reasonable options.

The first would have been to forget it if I was being practical as I don't care about the £10. However, I did not wish to do it.

The second was the one I chose: since CEDR had to verify that the airline had complied with the binding decision it had made, I sent a message visible to both BA and CEDR which pointed out that in my view BA had not complied with the decision which was to pay £350 (and not £340), that there was no reason to use the EU compensation amount since this pertained to a flight ex-UK after Brexit, and that the airline should thus be asked to pay the amount requested by the adjudicator and not a different, lower amount.

I thought that to me that second option was the right "level" of reaction because it enabled me to make my point and not let BA get away with unilaterally "overruling" an independent arbitration body, and also because I have get exactly zero pleasure from procedures, find them a waste of time, energy, and anxiety for everyone involved so would always choose options that do not extend my being involved in them any more than is necessary. Invariably, any "third option" would have just entailed starting or risking a new procedure which I did not want to get involved in just to prove an abstract point so to me it was much better to react within the framework of the procedure I had already started.

As mentioned above, whether CEDR would have reached that conclusion without my message, or whether my message achieved what I wanted it to I will never know, but either way the instruction came for BA to pay the amount agreed by the adjudicator and have now confirmed that they would do so after "wasting a round of discussions" between all involved.
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Old Jun 30, 22, 4:47 am
  #1575  
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Originally Posted by crazyanglaisy View Post
A lost bag/essential replacements question. I hope I am in the right place. My checked bag was lost last night in the bowels of T5, coming back from Europe. I am travelling to DOH shortly and need to get basic clothing replacements, amongst other items, for the next stage of my trip. I have little time, work to do, and do not fancy trekking off to Staines or Hounslow. Is it reasonable in these circumstances to buy replacement t-shirts, underwear etc. from Paul Smith, Gucci etc and expense these to BA? As far as I am aware there are only clothes shops in T4 that cater to millionnaires.
You do exactly what you would do if you knew 101% that BA would not pay a penny to your claim. So if you would still replace items via T4 then you would do that. If you are more likely to take the bus 10 minutes from T4 to Tesco Dukes Green then that would be more advisable. So the requirement is that it's essential and that your spending is reasonable and proportionate. If you would have spent the money anyway then if BA said it wasn't in scope then you wouldn't feel bad about it. There are plenty of malls in Doha would be your other option I guess. It's not actually EC261, it's covered by the Montrťal / Warsaw conventions.
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