BA to cut up to 12,000 jobs in "restructuring and redundancy programme"
#1411
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Programs: IC Hotels Spire, BA Gold
Posts: 8,673
Probably because of all the BA staff contributing on here it would seem to be legacy CC who posting the most frequent?
#1412
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 43,020
In terms of others such and ground staff and engineering it is difficult to talk about it when there doesn't seem to be much detail and very few if any BA insiders in those areas who are posting about it. It would be great to understand more about what is proposed in other areas if any one wants to help with some details. Is it just reductions in numbers or are those parts of BA similarly being affected by proposed changes in terms and conditions?
Based on the public face of this dispute, do you think the balance of the discussion here merely reflects the focus of the public campaign? BALPA have been fairly quiet when it comes to public relations. Unite has been very vocal and focused on cabin crew, in particular the WW and EF crew, so it is no surprise the wider public debate and on FT reflects that.
#1413
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,110
With all due respect, whilst I’m sure you’re addressing a broad range of comments from others, at least when it comes to my own comments (and a handful of others) I have frequently tried to deflect this towards at least MF and how that group may actually not be in any form of agreement with the Union’s actions and actually don’t feel at loss at BA’s proposals even on the face value they are now without union engagement. Unsurprisingly such comments haven’t even been as much acknowledged even by the BA insiders. In addition the topic has diverted to pilots too. So in fact there have been efforts to divert this away from legacy crew alone. However, the fact it’s the only cohort that appears in the media and anywhere you read about this is solely no-one’s but Unite/BASSA’s fault. Naturally the papers too have focussed heavily on this as it produces those eye-catching headlines. So the fact this forum/thread may seem “obsessed” actually is purely down to the way those fleets trade union representatives have handled this. This is of course in addition to what KARFA has rightly said.
Last edited by AirbusA350; Jun 7, 2020 at 2:31 pm
#1414
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 538
I think there has been significant discussion about flight crew, especially in the last few days. We are lucky to have a few BA insiders who can contribute on that.
In terms of others such and ground staff and engineering it is difficult to talk about it when there doesn't seem to be much detail and very few if any BA insiders in those areas who are posting about it. It would be great to understand more about what is proposed in other areas if any one wants to help with some details. Is it just reductions in numbers or are those parts of BA similarly being affected by proposed changes in terms and conditions?
Based on the public face of this dispute, do you think the balance of the discussion here merely reflects the focus of the public campaign? BALPA have been fairly quiet when it comes to public relations. Unite has been very vocal and focused on cabin crew, in particular the WW and EF crew, so it is no surprise the wider public debate and on FT reflects that.
In terms of others such and ground staff and engineering it is difficult to talk about it when there doesn't seem to be much detail and very few if any BA insiders in those areas who are posting about it. It would be great to understand more about what is proposed in other areas if any one wants to help with some details. Is it just reductions in numbers or are those parts of BA similarly being affected by proposed changes in terms and conditions?
Based on the public face of this dispute, do you think the balance of the discussion here merely reflects the focus of the public campaign? BALPA have been fairly quiet when it comes to public relations. Unite has been very vocal and focused on cabin crew, in particular the WW and EF crew, so it is no surprise the wider public debate and on FT reflects that.
I am also going to put my head above the parapet to voice my utter dismay at the way my union , Unite , is handling this situation.
#1415
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: UK
Programs: Lemonia. Best Greek ever.
Posts: 2,275
We now have the headcount numbers, some of the salary numbers, and our many observations of how BA are doing what they are doing, and how weak Unite's response seems to be
How will all this impact on us slf, and BAEC members??
How will all this impact on us slf, and BAEC members??
#1416
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: London
Programs: BA Silver (for now)
Posts: 1,000
I can confirm that the proposal for the contact centres is similar ....headcount reduction and for those that remain significant changes to terms of contract.
I am also going to put my head above the parapet to voice my utter dismay at the way my union , Unite , is handling this situation.
I am also going to put my head above the parapet to voice my utter dismay at the way my union , Unite , is handling this situation.
We are not living in the 1970’s. All this talk of deleting posts and putting pressure on anyone who supports the employer is ridiculous. Call it out, stop it, don’t pay your subs. It’s not OK.
I have see it first hand (not in aviation) and the only winners are the reps, spending your subs on biscuits and full time release.
Mods: I’m sure this type of post is probably not OK with you either, If so it amounts to the same silencing in my book.
#1417
Join Date: Nov 2017
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 94
Ok fine, let’s say this is old-fashioned, old, boring me being closed and narrow-minded about this (reality is I’d like to think I’m none of those as I’m actually not too far off from what they call “millennials”), however, let me try and level this out -
What purpose will any of these communications achieve?
BA losing slots? General public revolting against BA and never flying with them again? Jobs being protected? “Soft landings” for legacy crew? Withdrawal of S188? Sudden tremendous UK employment law change (before 15th June and before BA have actioned any redundancies)?
It’s achieved none of those thus far. Let’s say it achieves the first 2 (as they’re the most “realistic” amongst others) what does that then cause? Likely more redundancies and job losses owing to even more reduced business for BA. Yes that does the employees a hell of a lot of good doesn’t it?
Yet again I don’t need to mention the emotions these comms can cause for its members, of worsening anger, of distress and of anxiety. As if BA’s dreadful behaviour alone wasn’t enough emotion already...
What purpose will any of these communications achieve?
BA losing slots? General public revolting against BA and never flying with them again? Jobs being protected? “Soft landings” for legacy crew? Withdrawal of S188? Sudden tremendous UK employment law change (before 15th June and before BA have actioned any redundancies)?
It’s achieved none of those thus far. Let’s say it achieves the first 2 (as they’re the most “realistic” amongst others) what does that then cause? Likely more redundancies and job losses owing to even more reduced business for BA. Yes that does the employees a hell of a lot of good doesn’t it?
Yet again I don’t need to mention the emotions these comms can cause for its members, of worsening anger, of distress and of anxiety. As if BA’s dreadful behaviour alone wasn’t enough emotion already...
What is very clear to see is the public mood turning against BA management it’s across all social media and news outlets, and I think this will affect their reputation in the long run. There are lots of consumers looking at how well companies are treating both their staff and the public during this pandemic and unfortunately for BA they are not looking great at all.
Topics in this forum are not overly positive about several aspects of how BA has handled this crisis, from refunds, status extensions, lounge and catering offerings inflight etc. Compared to other carriers still flying and I think a lot of passengers are thinking about whether BA should retain their loyalty. I know I am considering it and I’ve only just achieved gold card status (albeit I haven’t utilised any Gold benefits yet/perhaps I will reconsider when things get back to ‘normal’) but this pandemic has made me think about my future travel plans and if BA staff are no longer the motivated, professional and highly rated that I am used to and the actual service offering is below par then why should I book with BA?
With this in mind maybe BA should consider the first gesture and move towards compromise as they have nothing to loose by doing this? Surely they can they position themselves and align to the mood of the public and at least try and attempt to keep their loyal customer base and treat their staff with some dignity?
#1418
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,110
What is very clear to see is the public mood turning against BA management it’s across all social media and news outlets, and I think this will affect their reputation in the long run. There are lots of consumers looking at how well companies are treating both their staff and the public during this pandemic and unfortunately for BA they are not looking great at all.
Of course you’re right, a lot of it is speculation, that’s why at the beginning of all this, there wasn’t much of an anti-Union’s strategy rhetoric amongst the comments. However it’s only accelerated further as that 45 day clock is very much nearing the end, and whilst BA have said it won’t be a cliff-edge, they still very much have the power and capability to do that. All some employees are literally pleading is for their representatives to at least try, like BALPA have done. If like BALPA they just get slapped in the face with a further updated S188, then bring it on, it adds more sense, power and weight to the #BABetrayal campaign, but without even trying and whilst also virtually shunning any members that are requesting for a change in tack, it is becoming increasingly clear that Unite/GMB are acting in the interests of Unite/GMB. Not their members. Of course no one truly knows the inner secret plans, if any, and you just gotta hope it’s true and that we’ll be completely stumped by some master move by Len McCluskey. One can hope. And thank you adding your hope too to the mix that it will turn out well.
#1419
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 497
The unions are starting to ignore those who speak out - and members are taking part in horrible online bullying and harasment, often behind an anonymous alias.
Hvae you been shown any of the changes to the terms of contract yet? Yet to see anything and union keeping quiet about them.
I can confirm that the proposal for the contact centres is similar ....headcount reduction and for those that remain significant changes to terms of contract.
I am also going to put my head above the parapet to voice my utter dismay at the way my union , Unite , is handling this situation.
I am also going to put my head above the parapet to voice my utter dismay at the way my union , Unite , is handling this situation.
#1420
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 121
Hopefully hot towels in World Traveller on LH...
Last edited by mguinness; Jun 7, 2020 at 5:18 pm
#1421
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: north of heathrow
Posts: 1,109
Of course on paper all branches of Unite and GMB have come together, it’s quite blatant where the influence for it all is coming, hence all the focus in every single article, in every single interview about 75%, 60% and 50% pay cuts and seldom of any significant mention from any other employee group
#1422
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,061
In terms of others such and ground staff and engineering it is difficult to talk about it when there doesn't seem to be much detail and very few if any BA insiders in those areas who are posting about it. It would be great to understand more about what is proposed in other areas if any one wants to help with some details. Is it just reductions in numbers or are those parts of BA similarly being affected by proposed changes in terms and conditions?
In terms of the proposals, it’s largely the same, huge and very brutal immediate headcount reductions (some depts up to 50% from July) and widespread restructuring of those who remain. Some more outsourcing to Eastern Europe and/or India, changes to relationships with external parties. Silence so far on changes to T&C but it’s expected, depending on the outcome of ‘consultation’.
One area that I haven’t seen on FT and could probably even have its own thread is the planned closure of the entire BA Executive Club team... which is marked for transfer to AGL to be run instead as a central proposition under the IAG banner.
#1423
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: CX Green, QF Platinum, BAEC Silver, Hyatt Glob
Posts: 10,780
What is AGL? An external service provider?
#1425
Join Date: Jun 2020
Programs: BA Exec Club
Posts: 6
Long time forum lurker here-considerable speculation and some inaccuracies throughout the thread so stepping outside my comfort zone and speaking up!
Despite disappointing accounts of less than satisfactory service on occasion and the perception of an entitled and inflexible mindset amongst a very few, the vast majority of staff have been very committed to the brand, customer and have been truly proud to work for the company, many for decades.
Reports of a refusal to engage between the company and unions are extremely worrying for us all-as posted above, being treated with some dignity is not too much to ask. Many recognise that the industry is in deep crisis but feel totally abandoned and threatened in the current deadlock.
Proposed new Ts&Cs aside, as a priority the company and unions must surely attempt to agree on a realistic and fair VR programme to identify those, who, if possible, would wish to remain in their roles and are enthusiastic about a different future and those who may choose to leave the business depending on what changes, permanent or otherwise, are to be implemented.
Certainly the best possible outcome for the brand, employees and customer looking forward.
Despite disappointing accounts of less than satisfactory service on occasion and the perception of an entitled and inflexible mindset amongst a very few, the vast majority of staff have been very committed to the brand, customer and have been truly proud to work for the company, many for decades.
Reports of a refusal to engage between the company and unions are extremely worrying for us all-as posted above, being treated with some dignity is not too much to ask. Many recognise that the industry is in deep crisis but feel totally abandoned and threatened in the current deadlock.
Proposed new Ts&Cs aside, as a priority the company and unions must surely attempt to agree on a realistic and fair VR programme to identify those, who, if possible, would wish to remain in their roles and are enthusiastic about a different future and those who may choose to leave the business depending on what changes, permanent or otherwise, are to be implemented.
Certainly the best possible outcome for the brand, employees and customer looking forward.
Last edited by STD295; Jun 7, 2020 at 8:34 pm