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BA to cut up to 12,000 jobs in "restructuring and redundancy programme"

BA to cut up to 12,000 jobs in "restructuring and redundancy programme"

Old Jun 7, 2020, 1:39 pm
  #1411  
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Originally Posted by Littlegirl
This isnít just about cabin crew, this is happening across the board to lots of staff in many areas of British Airways.

What is it with you people that all you talk about is legacy cabin crew! You come across as very obsessed.
Probably because of all the BA staff contributing on here it would seem to be legacy CC who posting the most frequent?
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Old Jun 7, 2020, 1:43 pm
  #1412  
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Originally Posted by Littlegirl
This isn’t just about cabin crew, this is happening across the board to lots of staff in many areas of British Airways.

What is it with you people that all you talk about is legacy cabin crew! You come across as very obsessed.
I think there has been significant discussion about flight crew, especially in the last few days. We are lucky to have a few BA insiders who can contribute on that.

In terms of others such and ground staff and engineering it is difficult to talk about it when there doesn't seem to be much detail and very few if any BA insiders in those areas who are posting about it. It would be great to understand more about what is proposed in other areas if any one wants to help with some details. Is it just reductions in numbers or are those parts of BA similarly being affected by proposed changes in terms and conditions?

Based on the public face of this dispute, do you think the balance of the discussion here merely reflects the focus of the public campaign? BALPA have been fairly quiet when it comes to public relations. Unite has been very vocal and focused on cabin crew, in particular the WW and EF crew, so it is no surprise the wider public debate and on FT reflects that.
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Old Jun 7, 2020, 2:08 pm
  #1413  
 
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Originally Posted by Littlegirl
This isnít just about cabin crew, this is happening across the board to lots of staff in many areas of British Airways.

What is it with you people that all you talk about is legacy cabin crew! You come across as very obsessed.
With all due respect, whilst Iím sure youíre addressing a broad range of comments from others, at least when it comes to my own comments (and a handful of others) I have frequently tried to deflect this towards at least MF and how that group may actually not be in any form of agreement with the Unionís actions and actually donít feel at loss at BAís proposals even on the face value they are now without union engagement. Unsurprisingly such comments havenít even been as much acknowledged even by the BA insiders. In addition the topic has diverted to pilots too. So in fact there have been efforts to divert this away from legacy crew alone. However, the fact itís the only cohort that appears in the media and anywhere you read about this is solely no-oneís but Unite/BASSAís fault. Naturally the papers too have focussed heavily on this as it produces those eye-catching headlines. So the fact this forum/thread may seem ďobsessedĒ actually is purely down to the way those fleets trade union representatives have handled this. This is of course in addition to what KARFA has rightly said.

Last edited by AirbusA350; Jun 7, 2020 at 2:31 pm
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Old Jun 7, 2020, 2:33 pm
  #1414  
 
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Originally Posted by KARFA
I think there has been significant discussion about flight crew, especially in the last few days. We are lucky to have a few BA insiders who can contribute on that.

In terms of others such and ground staff and engineering it is difficult to talk about it when there doesn't seem to be much detail and very few if any BA insiders in those areas who are posting about it. It would be great to understand more about what is proposed in other areas if any one wants to help with some details. Is it just reductions in numbers or are those parts of BA similarly being affected by proposed changes in terms and conditions?

Based on the public face of this dispute, do you think the balance of the discussion here merely reflects the focus of the public campaign? BALPA have been fairly quiet when it comes to public relations. Unite has been very vocal and focused on cabin crew, in particular the WW and EF crew, so it is no surprise the wider public debate and on FT reflects that.
I can confirm that the proposal for the contact centres is similar ....headcount reduction and for those that remain significant changes to terms of contract.
I am also going to put my head above the parapet to voice my utter dismay at the way my union , Unite , is handling this situation.
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Old Jun 7, 2020, 2:36 pm
  #1415  
 
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We now have the headcount numbers, some of the salary numbers, and our many observations of how BA are doing what they are doing, and how weak Unite's response seems to be

How will all this impact on us slf, and BAEC members??
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Old Jun 7, 2020, 2:44 pm
  #1416  
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Originally Posted by cbagent
I can confirm that the proposal for the contact centres is similar ....headcount reduction and for those that remain significant changes to terms of contract.
I am also going to put my head above the parapet to voice my utter dismay at the way my union , Unite , is handling this situation.
Parapet? Why worry about union bullying?

We are not living in the 1970ís. All this talk of deleting posts and putting pressure on anyone who supports the employer is ridiculous. Call it out, stop it, donít pay your subs. Itís not OK.

I have see it first hand (not in aviation) and the only winners are the reps, spending your subs on biscuits and full time release.

Mods: Iím sure this type of post is probably not OK with you either, If so it amounts to the same silencing in my book.
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Old Jun 7, 2020, 2:55 pm
  #1417  
 
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Originally Posted by AirbusA350
Ok fine, letís say this is old-fashioned, old, boring me being closed and narrow-minded about this (reality is Iíd like to think Iím none of those as Iím actually not too far off from what they call ďmillennialsĒ), however, let me try and level this out -
What purpose will any of these communications achieve?

BA losing slots? General public revolting against BA and never flying with them again? Jobs being protected? ďSoft landingsĒ for legacy crew? Withdrawal of S188? Sudden tremendous UK employment law change (before 15th June and before BA have actioned any redundancies)?

Itís achieved none of those thus far. Letís say it achieves the first 2 (as theyíre the most ďrealisticĒ amongst others) what does that then cause? Likely more redundancies and job losses owing to even more reduced business for BA. Yes that does the employees a hell of a lot of good doesnít it?

Yet again I donít need to mention the emotions these comms can cause for its members, of worsening anger, of distress and of anxiety. As if BAís dreadful behaviour alone wasnít enough emotion already...
The majority of what you have written is pure speculation and as you have mentioned being emotional due to BA actions I would suggest that this isnít helpful, either for yourself or for other staff members reading this. Nobody honestly knows what will happen - both BA and the unions seem to be entrenched. You do seem particularly affected by this (understandable if your partner is staff) and I hope things work our well for everyone involved.

What is very clear to see is the public mood turning against BA management itís across all social media and news outlets, and I think this will affect their reputation in the long run. There are lots of consumers looking at how well companies are treating both their staff and the public during this pandemic and unfortunately for BA they are not looking great at all.

Topics in this forum are not overly positive about several aspects of how BA has handled this crisis, from refunds, status extensions, lounge and catering offerings inflight etc. Compared to other carriers still flying and I think a lot of passengers are thinking about whether BA should retain their loyalty. I know I am considering it and Iíve only just achieved gold card status (albeit I havenít utilised any Gold benefits yet/perhaps I will reconsider when things get back to Ďnormalí) but this pandemic has made me think about my future travel plans and if BA staff are no longer the motivated, professional and highly rated that I am used to and the actual service offering is below par then why should I book with BA?

With this in mind maybe BA should consider the first gesture and move towards compromise as they have nothing to loose by doing this? Surely they can they position themselves and align to the mood of the public and at least try and attempt to keep their loyal customer base and treat their staff with some dignity?
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Old Jun 7, 2020, 3:07 pm
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Originally Posted by Jackanory
What is very clear to see is the public mood turning against BA management itís across all social media and news outlets, and I think this will affect their reputation in the long run. There are lots of consumers looking at how well companies are treating both their staff and the public during this pandemic and unfortunately for BA they are not looking great at all.
Exactly my point. This negative downturn that might hit BA is only further adding weight to my point. With the Union augmenting this negativity towards BA even further, which ultimately may lead to lower business for the company. How is a poorer performing business in anyway in the good interests of protecting jobs? Broadly speaking, yes itís good that the negatives of BA are coming to light and it would be great if such a company got its karma for the way they treat their customers and staff. But solely from a staff point of view, this will only exacerbate their situations and only add further to that 12,000 number.

Of course youíre right, a lot of it is speculation, thatís why at the beginning of all this, there wasnít much of an anti-Unionís strategy rhetoric amongst the comments. However itís only accelerated further as that 45 day clock is very much nearing the end, and whilst BA have said it wonít be a cliff-edge, they still very much have the power and capability to do that. All some employees are literally pleading is for their representatives to at least try, like BALPA have done. If like BALPA they just get slapped in the face with a further updated S188, then bring it on, it adds more sense, power and weight to the #BABetrayal campaign, but without even trying and whilst also virtually shunning any members that are requesting for a change in tack, it is becoming increasingly clear that Unite/GMB are acting in the interests of Unite/GMB. Not their members. Of course no one truly knows the inner secret plans, if any, and you just gotta hope itís true and that weíll be completely stumped by some master move by Len McCluskey. One can hope. And thank you adding your hope too to the mix that it will turn out well.
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Old Jun 7, 2020, 3:21 pm
  #1419  
 
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The unions are starting to ignore those who speak out - and members are taking part in horrible online bullying and harasment, often behind an anonymous alias.

Originally Posted by cbagent
I can confirm that the proposal for the contact centres is similar ....headcount reduction and for those that remain significant changes to terms of contract.
I am also going to put my head above the parapet to voice my utter dismay at the way my union , Unite , is handling this situation.
Hvae you been shown any of the changes to the terms of contract yet? Yet to see anything and union keeping quiet about them.
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Old Jun 7, 2020, 5:09 pm
  #1420  
 
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Originally Posted by Ancient Observer
We now have the headcount numbers, some of the salary numbers, and our many observations of how BA are doing what they are doing, and how weak Unite's response seems to be

How will all this impact on us slf, and BAEC members??
Hopefully hot towels in World Traveller on LH...

Last edited by mguinness; Jun 7, 2020 at 5:18 pm
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Old Jun 7, 2020, 5:26 pm
  #1421  
 
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Originally Posted by AirbusA350
Of course on paper all branches of Unite and GMB have come together, itís quite blatant where the influence for it all is coming, hence all the focus in every single article, in every single interview about 75%, 60% and 50% pay cuts and seldom of any significant mention from any other employee group
Are you saying that you are assuming those amounts are only for Eurofloeet and Worldwide crew, because no other departments are specifically mentioned? Or are you saying that ďin every single interviewĒ only cabin crew is mentioned? I have seen staff and employees mentioned, not always specifically cabin crew.
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Old Jun 7, 2020, 6:02 pm
  #1422  
 
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Originally Posted by KARFA
In terms of others such and ground staff and engineering it is difficult to talk about it when there doesn't seem to be much detail and very few if any BA insiders in those areas who are posting about it. It would be great to understand more about what is proposed in other areas if any one wants to help with some details. Is it just reductions in numbers or are those parts of BA similarly being affected by proposed changes in terms and conditions?
From a couple of friends in head office so second hand... but it seems much the same frustrations abound. Thanks to an agreement apparently signed in the 70s, head office staff are covered by Ďunion bargainingí despite most of them not actually being in a union, so they have the double whammy of having Ďtheirí unions refuse to engage and not being able to complain to them about not turning up to discussions, while not being able to engage themselves instead. (No, I donít understand it either, but thatís apparently how it works.)

In terms of the proposals, itís largely the same, huge and very brutal immediate headcount reductions (some depts up to 50% from July) and widespread restructuring of those who remain. Some more outsourcing to Eastern Europe and/or India, changes to relationships with external parties. Silence so far on changes to T&C but itís expected, depending on the outcome of Ďconsultationí.

One area that I havenít seen on FT and could probably even have its own thread is the planned closure of the entire BA Executive Club team... which is marked for transfer to AGL to be run instead as a central proposition under the IAG banner.
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Old Jun 7, 2020, 6:25 pm
  #1423  
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What is AGL? An external service provider?
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Old Jun 7, 2020, 6:30 pm
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Originally Posted by sxc
What is AGL? An external service provider?
Avios Group Limited
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Old Jun 7, 2020, 7:50 pm
  #1425  
 
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Long time forum lurker here-considerable speculation and some inaccuracies throughout the thread so stepping outside my comfort zone and speaking up!
Despite disappointing accounts of less than satisfactory service on occasion and the perception of an entitled and inflexible mindset amongst a very few, the vast majority of staff have been very committed to the brand, customer and have been truly proud to work for the company, many for decades.
Reports of a refusal to engage between the company and unions are extremely worrying for us all-as posted above, being treated with some dignity is not too much to ask. Many recognise that the industry is in deep crisis but feel totally abandoned and threatened in the current deadlock.
Proposed new Ts&Cs aside, as a priority the company and unions must surely attempt to agree on a realistic and fair VR programme to identify those, who, if possible, would wish to remain in their roles and are enthusiastic about a different future and those who may choose to leave the business depending on what changes, permanent or otherwise, are to be implemented.
Certainly the best possible outcome for the brand, employees and customer looking forward.
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Last edited by STD295; Jun 7, 2020 at 8:34 pm
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