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BA to cut up to 12,000 jobs in "restructuring and redundancy programme"

BA to cut up to 12,000 jobs in "restructuring and redundancy programme"

Old Jun 9, 2020, 4:43 am
  #1501  
 
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Originally Posted by Robespierre
I would add my feeling that this thread is becoming unreadable and unpalatable. I am not personally affected but have friends in the cockpit and cabin who are.

It is to me a little bit voyeuristic to have a public forum speculating on job losses in a private company when the community includes those personally affected. One side is visible to all and the other has the full anonymity of the internet. It matters not a jot to those personally affected by this what else is happening in other industries or other companies within aviation and telling them that others will have it worse is supposed to do what exactly?

Please use the forum to spread kindness and help. That is when FT is at its best.
Bring things into perspective?
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Old Jun 9, 2020, 4:54 am
  #1502  
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this thread is becoming unreadable and unpalatable
Folks, just a reminder :

The issues under discussion in this thread are critical to the future of BA, to all of our travels and to the livelihoods of many FT members.
As such, the thread has a huge number of people who are following developments - approaching 400k views to date - and most of these don't enjoy having wade through pages of off-topic musings, repetition or prolonged bickering over tangential points.

It's really important that posters be mindful of this and post accordingly.
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Old Jun 9, 2020, 5:00 am
  #1503  
 
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Originally Posted by Jackanory
What you have described is all down to bad management decisions, and those that were caught up in it will remember it, whether they choose to fly with BA again because of it is another question.

One thing that I dont think anyone has yet touched upon yet is what happens if BA do exactly what everyone is saying: 12,000 job losses and the remaining 30,000 loose valuable terms and condition, who will BA management blame when the entire collective workforce begin taking strike action to regain their lost terms and conditions? Further disruption, further uncertainty about BA that will affect both consumer and shareholder confidence.

This argument is based on the premise that the business will be in a fine state once BA make these 12000 people redundant. To look at it from another point of view what would happen to BA if they didnt make these changes? Do you know for certain what the world will be like in 3-6-9-12 months? There inst any guarantee that the business will survive in any case. The other way to look at this is that BA are trying to save 30000 jobs. It would be naive in the extreme to not see this position. People are complaining about WW and his attitude and his historic want to see these terms implemented but there is a real chance that this may be the only way to save the company.

For the workforce that stays on the aim should be that when and if the company return to profitable levels that they engage in dialogue about a change in T&C's and take it then. In the UK strike action should be the last resort.

What is happening to these employees and their families is awful but it is a pain felt throughout the entire world in most industries and sectors.
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Old Jun 9, 2020, 5:19 am
  #1504  
 
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Originally Posted by Agent69
I didn't hear the show, but I assume nobody explained the facts of life to the 17yo? You know things like:
  • given the situation with Covid 19 it is unlikely that normal University courses will start in the autumn
  • if both your parents are still in employment in 3 months time you are doing a lot better than the million people who will have been made redundant
  • if your parents have been on the property ladder for 17 years then the size of their mortgage payments as a proportion of their salary will likely have gone down significantly
  • Have your parents considered downsizing, or buying a property in a cheaper area?

Ultimately lots of students go on a gap year break. Would it be the end of the world if the daughter didn't start uni until she was 18? This just looks like somebody who is far better off that most having a moan because life isn't perfect.
This post has made me realise that I actually dont want to read anymore views on here. It really beggars belief that anyone normal could actually pen a post like this.

Goodby
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Old Jun 9, 2020, 5:40 am
  #1505  
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Your not alone Littlegirl, you may have all noticed that others BA staff have stopped posting!
The way I look at posts on here is that many are from posters with agendas and as I have said before, BA plants.
The fact is there are some nasty, jealous and angry people posting on here and as long as you understand that this isn’t the real world you see the good people shining through.

Last edited by Can I help you; Jun 9, 2020 at 5:55 am
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Old Jun 9, 2020, 6:08 am
  #1506  
BOH
 
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Originally Posted by Can I help you
Your not alone Littlegirl, you may have all noticed that others BA staff have stopped posting!
The way I look at posts on here is that many are from posters with agendas and as I have said before, BA plants.
The fact is there are some nasty, jealous and angry people posting on here and as long as you understand that this isn’t the real world you see the good people shining through.
Another theory is posts by some people simply have an alternative view based on different information and business experience and have not bought into the spin and anti-BA propaganda put on here? As another poster put it very well earlier this morning.......is BA taking this action now to save 30,000 jobs? Always two sides to a point of view.....some just do not want to hear another view so they strop off.
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Old Jun 9, 2020, 6:09 am
  #1507  
 
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Originally Posted by Can I help you
The way I look at posts on here is that many are from posters with agendas and as I have said before, BA plants.
The fact is there are some nasty, jealous and angry people posting on here and as long as you understand that this isnt the real world you see the good people shining through.
I hadnt really considered this, but I guess there is absolutely nothing stopping BA management posting on here under an anonymous handle for their own agenda. If thats true (doubt we will ever find for certain) then its just another example of how toxic the management structure is in BA. Quite sickening really.
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Old Jun 9, 2020, 6:14 am
  #1508  
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Originally Posted by BOH
Another theory is posts by some people simply have an alternative view based on different information and business experience and have not bought into the spin and anti-BA propaganda put on here? As another poster put it very well earlier this morning.......is BA taking this action now to save 30,000 jobs? Always two sides to a point of view.....some just do not want to hear another view so they strop off.
Any others just continue to bully.
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Old Jun 9, 2020, 6:19 am
  #1509  
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Originally Posted by Can I help you
Any others just continue to bully.
Are you talking about UNITE over their members if they dare to disobey the union line? Agreed
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Old Jun 9, 2020, 6:30 am
  #1510  
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Maybe you should step back and look at your attitude?
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Old Jun 9, 2020, 6:31 am
  #1511  
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Originally Posted by Can I help you
Your not alone Littlegirl, you may have all noticed that others BA staff have stopped posting!
The way I look at posts on here is that many are from posters with agendas and as I have said before, BA plants.
The fact is there are some nasty, jealous and angry people posting on here and as long as you understand that this isnt the real world you see the good people shining through.
Well said. I've always thought that the BA board on FT had far more than a fair share of company plants though fortunately many are easily identified.

Posting vitriol and hatred of BA staff is completely uncalled for and wishing people facing such huge uncertainty is uncalled for and unnecessary.
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Old Jun 9, 2020, 6:37 am
  #1512  
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In case anyone missed the mod request posted up thread, please do read this and engage accordingly

Prospero
Moderator: BA forum

Originally Posted by Oxon Flyer
Folks, just a reminder :

The issues under discussion in this thread are critical to the future of BA, to all of our travels and to the livelihoods of many FT members.
As such, the thread has a huge number of people who are following developments - approaching 400k views to date - and most of these don't enjoy having wade through pages of off-topic musings, repetition or prolonged bickering over tangential points.

It's really important that posters be mindful of this and post accordingly.
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Old Jun 9, 2020, 6:43 am
  #1513  
V10
 
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Originally Posted by MickV
The other way to look at this is that BA are trying to save 30000 jobs. It would be naive in the extreme to not see this position. People are complaining about WW and his attitude and his historic want to see these terms implemented but there is a real chance that this may be the only way to save the company.
I think perhaps you're attributing more altruism to large international corporations than is really justified here. It's potentially retaining 30k jobs, but let's be clear that this should be framed in the context of what roles need to be filled in order to preserve existing shareholder value and investor returns. This is the only thing that WW is paid to take care of.

If the future pans out in such a way that this can only be done by losing further jobs, be in no doubt that this is what will happen.
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Old Jun 9, 2020, 6:57 am
  #1514  
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Originally Posted by V10
I think perhaps you're attributing more altruism to large international corporations than is really justified here. It's potentially retaining 30k jobs, but let's be clear that this should be framed in the context of what roles need to be filled in order to preserve existing shareholder value and investor returns. This is the only thing that WW is paid to take care of.

If the future pans out in such a way that this can only be done by losing further jobs, be in no doubt that this is what will happen.
But that would also be exactly the same in any company, in any sector?
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Old Jun 9, 2020, 6:58 am
  #1515  
 
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Originally Posted by BOH
Bingo! So this one sentence somewhat puts into perspective all the rantings in this thread by people absolutely insistent that BA is going to dismiss / sack / fire / make redundant tens of thousands of people and then offer them a job back at virtually poverty pay

Time for BA staff to finally see the light and rise up against the appalling union tactics. Wake up!!
Did WW say this? When? If he did then have the 188 notices been amended and the part where it says ...that BA will consider dismissing or terminate their contracts if agreement on the proposed changes cannot be reached...been taken out?

i dont recall anyone ranting on this blog...merely correcting you and others when you insisted this was not the case...again, again and again.


You cannot dispute that this was said..its in black and white. Yep!, you could say it was a threat and unlikely to happen but, having worked for BA and knowing WW, he would never say anything he would not follow through on if required.
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