Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > British Airways | Executive Club
Reload this Page >

BA to cut up to 12,000 jobs in "restructuring and redundancy programme"

BA to cut up to 12,000 jobs in "restructuring and redundancy programme"

Old Jun 8, 2020, 12:49 pm
  #1471  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 538
Originally Posted by Littlegirl
I actually donít think it will come to that anyway in my area, which is cabin crew.

BA have just outlined how they will be choosing people. They have also said they may consider VR.

So a more likely scenario is that VR will be offered. Those who donít opt for VR will be invited to apply for the positions and assessed using the criterion they have just set out and then those successful will be offered jobs and the remainder will be made redundant.

I imagine that this process will start at the end of the consultation period.

This is just my opinion of what may happen in my area.
Thanks for update. Contact centre update is due tomorrow so expect it wll be along the same lines.
Some sort of enhanced VR would be welcomed by many and hopefully reduce the numbers that want to stay but are not given the opportunity.
mguinness likes this.
cbagent is offline  
Old Jun 8, 2020, 1:08 pm
  #1472  
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 92
Originally Posted by Littlegirl
I actually don’t think it will come to that anyway in my area, which is cabin crew.

BA have just outlined how they will be choosing people. They have also said they may consider VR.

So a more likely scenario is that VR will be offered. Those who don’t opt for VR will be invited to apply for the positions and assessed using the criterion they have just set out and then those successful will be offered jobs and the remainder will be made redundant.

I imagine that this process will start at the end of the consultation period.

This is just my opinion of what may happen in my area.
It will be interesting to see in their selection process what they will consider important skills given there will be people who are top performers as far as customer service and attendance but light on what BA considers important value add such as a language.
Bs65 is offline  
Old Jun 8, 2020, 1:10 pm
  #1473  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 1,650
Originally Posted by Littlegirl
Mixed Fleet starting salary is £15612, you canít include allowances provided to buy food and pretend they actually earn that.
Of course if you wanted to live out of a suitcase on long life cold food, you could but I see little point in doing a job like cabin crew if you spent your life in a hotel room and the allowances are provided so you can eat while away.

I just donít get why some of you argue something that is obviously not true. You admit you are not crew and donít even work in aviation but when people who do, explain something you are saying is not correct, you just come back with some ridiculous ideas to try and prove you are right. It honestly is really weird and I just canít work out your agenda here!
Starting salary is a red herring used by people like UNITE to try to prove a point, It's the overall package that counts. As an example would you rather have a starting salary of £15k and £20k in allowances, or a starting salary of £25k and £5k in allowances?

I cannot recognise the scenario where people who know are continually correcting my errors (In reality facts are very hard to come by). So, fo the avoidance of doubt, can you or somebody who is in the know confirm if I am mistaken when I say:
  • WW crew receive a package worth about £40k a year (which was the figure mentioned earlier in this thread) and this is about 50% more than the equivalent people in MF receive for doing the same job
  • No other UK based airline pays cabin crew £40k a year (or even £30k for that matter)
  • Nobody in BA is being asked to take a pay cut of 60%
  • Members of the legacy crew are very reluctant to admit how much better off they are than others in the UK aviation industry.
Agent69 is offline  
Old Jun 8, 2020, 1:15 pm
  #1474  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 1,650
Originally Posted by Littlegirl
Once they have Ďconsultedí they will get staff to apply for either VR or a job. Those not successful in the job application would then be made redundant presumably.
So what has happened to the 42,000 sackings?
Agent69 is offline  
Old Jun 8, 2020, 1:33 pm
  #1475  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Programs: Mucci de la Cuisine Aťrienne du Rťseau Courte Durťe de British Airways
Posts: 4,704
If any of you are interested Willie Walsh has just been interviewed by Iain Dale on LBC in an aviation special.

You have missed him being interviewed but the programme is still going on but you will be able to listen to the whole programme via LBCs catch up on their website once it ends.
BOH and rockflyertalk like this.
Littlegirl is offline  
Old Jun 8, 2020, 1:44 pm
  #1476  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Programs: Mucci de la Cuisine Aťrienne du Rťseau Courte Durťe de British Airways
Posts: 4,704
Originally Posted by cbagent
Thanks for update. Contact centre update is due tomorrow so expect it wll be along the same lines.
Some sort of enhanced VR would be welcomed by many and hopefully reduce the numbers that want to stay but are not given the opportunity.
They havenít mentioned Ďenhancedí VR, just highlighted that they might consider VR. I presume any VR would need to be better than the statutory redundancy payments because that includes notice pay and VR doesnít.

They just basically were hinting at things that they would like to discuss with the union like VR and a soft landing for those taking a pay cut.

I would be interested to hear what they say at the Contact Centres. I get the distinct impression they are gearing up to go without the unions if they donít start to engage. Todayís video and feedback link looks like a form of consultation is trying to be shown.
cbagent likes this.
Littlegirl is offline  
Old Jun 8, 2020, 3:45 pm
  #1477  
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 74
Originally Posted by Agent69
So what has happened to the 42,000 sackings?
The 188 letters sent to the various staff groups (which now include pilots) state that BA will consider dismissing or terminate their contracts if agreement on the proposed changes cannot be reached.
So, to answer your question, itís still there and alive and kicking.

The difference now is that it appears that BA has now suggested that VR might be available and (for CC only at this stage?) some sort of cushioning for those with substantial differences in pay.
Time will tell if this is correct and some change of direction, possibly as a result of the very negative press they have received, has taken place. I certainly hope so and reflects my suggestion in an earlier post of how this might spur the TUís to engage as they now have something to negotiate!

There is no doubt that massive change is required and that this change may weíll hit some staff groups a lot harder than others. At least this would offer a fairer recompense to those hardest hit.
mguinness likes this.
OhLordy is offline  
Old Jun 8, 2020, 6:47 pm
  #1478  
sxc
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Accor Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: CX Green, QF Platinum, BAEC Silver, Hyatt Glob
Posts: 10,780
So WW is saying that the S188 notices were issued only for legal reasons and theyíre still waiting for the unions to engage and there wonít be mass redundancies on 15 June.
sxc is offline  
Old Jun 9, 2020, 1:41 am
  #1479  
BOH
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Programs: IC Hotels Spire, BA Gold
Posts: 8,687
Originally Posted by sxc
So WW is saying that the S188 notices were issued only for legal reasons and they’re still waiting for the unions to engage and there won’t be mass redundancies on 15 June.
Bingo! So this one sentence somewhat puts into perspective all the rantings in this thread by people absolutely insistent that BA is going to dismiss / sack / fire / make redundant tens of thousands of people and then offer them a job back at virtually poverty pay

Time for BA staff to finally see the light and rise up against the appalling union tactics. Wake up!!
Agent69 and mguinness like this.
BOH is offline  
Old Jun 9, 2020, 2:20 am
  #1480  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 1,707
Originally Posted by BOH
Bingo! So this one sentence somewhat puts into perspective all the rantings in this thread by people absolutely insistent that BA is going to dismiss / sack / fire / make redundant tens of thousands of people and then offer them a job back at virtually poverty pay

Time for BA staff to finally see the light and rise up against the appalling union tactics. Wake up!!
Time to put your trust in WW, that's a big ask. I thought he performed quite poorly. He also said it was just his opinion that staff wouldn't be made redundant on the 15th June, he was very clear it wasn't his decision and he was just offering an opinion, one of the several times he muddled his involvement or not in the matter.

WW didn't properly answer,
AC's pay rise, whether or not a bonus, why he was doing the interview and not AC.
Why BA and not Iberia, Aer Lingus or Vueling
That he's using the C19 issue to push through a long held wish to restructure many of the contracts.
He also stumbled between his involvement or not in what's going on.

I'm not a BA employee, but if I was I would certainly not be putting any trust in WW regardless of what others may think of the Unions involved.
dougzz is offline  
Old Jun 9, 2020, 2:29 am
  #1481  
BOH
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Programs: IC Hotels Spire, BA Gold
Posts: 8,687
Originally Posted by dougzz
Time to put your trust in WW, that's a big ask. I thought he performed quite poorly. He also said it was just his opinion that staff wouldn't be made redundant on the 15th June, he was very clear it wasn't his decision and he was just offering an opinion, one of the several times he muddled his involvement or not in the matter.

WW didn't properly answer,
AC's pay rise, whether or not a bonus, why he was doing the interview and not AC.
Why BA and not Iberia, Aer Lingus or Vueling
That he's using the C19 issue to push through a long held wish to restructure many of the contracts.
He also stumbled between his involvement or not in what's going on.

I'm not a BA employee, but if I was I would certainly not be putting any trust in WW regardless of what others may think of the Unions involved.
Sorry but that is exactly how business works - and exactly how unions do too. You push for changes when the dice are loaded in your favour and you know the other party is not in a strong position. So on the one side, it is much more difficult for the employer to push through change when business is at high levels, load factors are high and the jobs market is very buoyant. This is the time when the unions are at their strongest - peak summer time strikes anyone....how quickly the staff forget this.

Conversely when pax loads have gone off a cliff and the jobs market is tough the dice are in favour of the employer. Harsh, but it is life and to pretend any business (and union) does not work like would be ridiculous.
BOH is offline  
Old Jun 9, 2020, 2:32 am
  #1482  
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 94
Originally Posted by dougzz
Time to put your trust in WW, that's a big ask. I thought he performed quite poorly. He also said it was just his opinion that staff wouldn't be made redundant on the 15th June, he was very clear it wasn't his decision and he was just offering an opinion, one of the several times he muddled his involvement or not in the matter.

WW didn't properly answer,
AC's pay rise, whether or not a bonus, why he was doing the interview and not AC.
Why BA and not Iberia, Aer Lingus or Vueling
That he's using the C19 issue to push through a long held wish to restructure many of the contracts.
He also stumbled between his involvement or not in what's going on.

I'm not a BA employee, but if I was I would certainly not be putting any trust in WW regardless of what others may think of the Unions involved.
I agree WW came across very badly. His tentative answers in regard to Alex Cruz pay rise and his non-answer about redundancies on 15th June will only highlight the toxic management culture. Whether people agree with the unions campaign or not itís clear to see there is very little support for BA publicly for what they are doing. And if the unions campaign was to highlight that then it has been a success as it has cut through to the general public. There were some really emotional contributions from staff with whole families that work for BA that will be devastated.

Whether or not it changes anything is yet to be seen.
Jackanory is offline  
Old Jun 9, 2020, 2:34 am
  #1483  
sxc
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Accor Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: CX Green, QF Platinum, BAEC Silver, Hyatt Glob
Posts: 10,780
Originally Posted by dougzz
WW didn't properly answer,
why he was doing the interview and not AC.
It was quite weird listening to the conversation, and I think WW started by always using the "We" when referring to the airline, and then later after being asked about why he was doing the interview, he clearly changed to referring to BA in the third person.
sxc is offline  
Old Jun 9, 2020, 2:49 am
  #1484  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: LHR, LGW
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 3,529
What hit me the most from the show, taking it at face value (or lack of face as the case may be on radio), was the 17 yr old caller who wasnít sure if she would be able to go to university this autumn as her parents (BA employees) maybe in the bracket for new contract on less pay. Therefore the 17 yr old may have to get a job and help contribute to the parents mortgage. How utterly sad.
rockflyertalk is offline  
Old Jun 9, 2020, 2:58 am
  #1485  
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 94
Originally Posted by rockflyertalk
What hit me the most from the show, taking it at face value (or lack of face as the case may be on radio), was the 17 yr old caller who wasnít sure if she would be able to go to university this autumn as her parents (BA employees) maybe in the bracket for new contract on less pay. Therefore the 17 yr old may have to get a job and help contribute to the parents mortgage. How utterly sad.
I also think that the readiness of some posters to this forum to just laud the actions of BA management as vital and necessary is quite something to read. The reduction in pay for 30,000 staff and redundancies for 12,000 will impact the financial and life decisions of those families. This will impact consumer spending in the long run and have a wider ripple throughout the economy. And whatís to then stop all other airlines and companies doing exactly the same thing further impacting the recovery? Iím sure many are watching what BA can get away with to swing their own axes down.
Jackanory is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.