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BA to cut up to 12,000 jobs in "restructuring and redundancy programme"

BA to cut up to 12,000 jobs in "restructuring and redundancy programme"

Old Jun 8, 2020, 6:07 am
  #1441  
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Originally Posted by lloydah
Perhaps they should eat cake at the same time?
Meaning what exactly?
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Old Jun 8, 2020, 6:13 am
  #1442  
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Originally Posted by BOH
But wouldn't the same person have to buy food if they were at home too? Having worked internationally myself and paid a per diem daily allowance I shopped for food at the local supermarkets rather than a restaurant each night. All fine
Good job BA only flies to totally safe countries at social times then, so the crew don't find themselves needing to get a meal at an airport hotel in Lagos at 3am.
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Old Jun 8, 2020, 6:22 am
  #1443  
 
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Originally Posted by Littlegirl
They dont actually earn 25K though, that is the total figure including the allowances which are paid to buy food whilst staying away.
Most companies pay expenses to staff who travel for work. Whether that be for accommodation or food.

I dont know many companies who include those expenses as part of their workers salaries no matter how often they travel.
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Old Jun 8, 2020, 6:28 am
  #1444  
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Originally Posted by Raffles
Good job BA only flies to totally safe countries at social times then, so the crew don't find themselves needing to get a meal at an airport hotel in Lagos at 3am.
Absolute classic example of the straw man argument
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Old Jun 8, 2020, 6:29 am
  #1445  
 
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Originally Posted by BOH
Meaning what exactly?
Sorry I didn't think it needed more explanation. Marie Antoinette anyone?
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Old Jun 8, 2020, 6:33 am
  #1446  
 
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Originally Posted by Agent69
Maybe they should buy a house a bit nearer to where they work?
Reminds me of the Jimmy Carr joke:

I read a charity advert about this poor girl in Africa who has to walk 3 miles every day just to fetch water. And I couldnt help thinking..... you should move....
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Old Jun 8, 2020, 6:39 am
  #1447  
 
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Originally Posted by Littlegirl
They dont actually earn 25K though, that is the total figure including the allowances which are paid to buy food whilst staying away.

Im quite sad about the level of debate here full of inaccurate statements from the same people over and over again. Repeatedly you are corrected and repeatedly you repeat inaccurate information.

I notice that you now all understand that BA are using a fire & rehire threat, since seeing it added to the pilot S188, but none of you have apologised for saying that was not true over and over again.
Can I pick you up on the 3 items highlighted above:
  • They do actually get paid 25k, but like everyone else they have to fund their living expenses from their salary
  • We are all in favour of accuracy, but I don't ever remember you correcting any of the many inaccuracies that UNITE constantly pump out. For example would you like to state what you think the highest % pay cut will be (along with details of who will suffer it) so we can compare it with Red Len's 60 - 70%
  • Why have you put the phrase 'fire & rehire' in inverted commas? Normally when the media do this they mean that what they have said isn't strictly true. There is a world of difference between threatening something and actually doing it. I just can't see BA firing 30,000 people and paying the associated redundancy money, only to rehire them again. Not in a million years
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Old Jun 8, 2020, 6:43 am
  #1448  
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Originally Posted by crazy8534
Reminds me of the Jimmy Carr joke:

I read a charity advert about this poor girl in Africa who has to walk 3 miles every day just to fetch water. And I couldnt help thinking..... you should move....
It might be amusing but I fail to see the relevance in any way. In this case the "water" was in plentiful supply in the North-West of England too without needing to travel to Heathrow to get it. Or are you saying the only jobs paying circa 25k per year for people in the NW were in the London area? Or that CC are not required on aircraft flying out of LPL, MAN, BHX etc, all of which are considerably closer than LHR is to Liverpool?
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Old Jun 8, 2020, 6:48 am
  #1449  
 
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Originally Posted by BOH
But wouldn't the same person have to buy food if they were at home too? Having worked internationally myself and paid a per diem daily allowance I shopped for food at the local supermarkets rather than a restaurant each night. All fine
Sorry, but this is one of your posts that I take issue with enough to reply to (some others I do agree with).

There are so many reasons why you shouldn't include such allowance as pay:

- You can cook for yourself much more cheaply than eating out (being able to store ingredients etc) which is why companies pay allowances! This is particularly so if a family, cooking a meal for multiple people (the rest of your family still have to eat).
- Most hotel rooms don't have the facilities to cook and even if they did, it's impractical to buy all the ingredients needed to make a reasonable dinner for one or two nights. Hotels may not be near supermarkets (crew will have no transport) and will be jet lagged and tired from working. Taking food with you is likely impractical also (legalities of import and also storage conditions etc).
- When most of us go away with work, we do it occasionally (which means a microwave meal or trip to McDonalds maybe fine if you don't want a full/expensive hotel meal). Crew are doing this all the time as part of their job so access to decent food is not unreasonable unless you want some very unhealthy crew in a few years!

Now I would agree that there is a certain amount saved when eating away on allowances, but this is relatively marginal and if often factored into the allowance rates. It's a much wider discussion than here - probably more one on whether travel allowances are taxable benefits or not.

Anyway, I certainly wouldn't include such allowances as part of my salary!
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Old Jun 8, 2020, 6:57 am
  #1450  
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Originally Posted by gliderpilot
Sorry, but this is one of your posts that I take issue with enough to reply to (some others I do agree with).

There are so many reasons why you shouldn't include such allowance as pay:

- You can cook for yourself much more cheaply than eating out (being able to store ingredients etc) which is why companies pay allowances! This is particularly so if a family, cooking a meal for multiple people (the rest of your family still have to eat).
- Most hotel rooms don't have the facilities to cook and even if they did, it's impractical to buy all the ingredients needed to make a reasonable dinner for one or two nights. Hotels may not be near supermarkets (crew will have no transport) and will be jet lagged and tired from working. Taking food with you is likely impractical also (legalities of import and also storage conditions etc).
- When most of us go away with work, we do it occasionally (which means a microwave meal or trip to McDonalds maybe fine if you don't want a full/expensive hotel meal). Crew are doing this all the time as part of their job so access to decent food is not unreasonable unless you want some very unhealthy crew in a few years!

Now I would agree that there is a certain amount saved when eating away on allowances, but this is relatively marginal and if often factored into the allowance rates. It's a much wider discussion than here - probably more one on whether travel allowances are taxable benefits or not.

Anyway, I certainly wouldn't include such allowances as part of my salary!
Fully appreciate your points and I guess it is horses for courses TBH. I traveled very regularly (long-haul) and found a balance was required. Sometimes I would eat out at a restaurant, sometimes in the hotel and sometimes I would buy something from the supermarket and yes I agree, it is not feasible to go out buying ingredients. But if away for just 2-3 nights maximum it worked out just fine for me, 2-3 times a month.
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Old Jun 8, 2020, 6:59 am
  #1451  
 
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Originally Posted by Agent69
Can I pick you up on the 3 items highlighted above:
  • They do actually get paid 25k, but like everyone else they have to fund their living expenses from their salary
  • We are all in favour of accuracy, but I don't ever remember you correcting any of the many inaccuracies that UNITE constantly pump out. For example would you like to state what you think the highest % pay cut will be (along with details of who will suffer it) so we can compare it with Red Len's 60 - 70%
  • Why have you put the phrase 'fire & rehire' in inverted commas? Normally when the media do this they mean that what they have said isn't strictly true. There is a world of difference between threatening something and actually doing it. I just can't see BA firing 30,000 people and paying the associated redundancy money, only to rehire them again. Not in a million years
Mixed Fleet starting salary is 15612, you cant include allowances provided to buy food and pretend they actually earn that.
Of course if you wanted to live out of a suitcase on long life cold food, you could but I see little point in doing a job like cabin crew if you spent your life in a hotel room and the allowances are provided so you can eat while away.

I just dont get why some of you argue something that is obviously not true. You admit you are not crew and dont even work in aviation but when people who do, explain something you are saying is not correct, you just come back with some ridiculous ideas to try and prove you are right. It honestly is really weird and I just cant work out your agenda here!
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Old Jun 8, 2020, 6:59 am
  #1452  
 
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Originally Posted by Agent69
Can I pick you up on the 3 items highlighted above:
  • They do actually get paid 25k, but like everyone else they have to fund their living expenses from their salary
But employers don't typically include subsistence in an advertised salary. It's much more expensive to eat when you're travelling, compared with the cost of preparing something at home. My understanding is that the 24k figure would not be supplemented by other out of pocket expenses, so compared to an office worker on 24K, a crew member would be worse off.
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Old Jun 8, 2020, 7:00 am
  #1453  
 
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Originally Posted by Agent69
Can I pick you up on the 3 items highlighted above:
  • We are all in favour of accuracy, but I don't ever remember you correcting any of the many inaccuracies that UNITE constantly pump out. For example would you like to state what you think the highest % pay cut will be (along with details of who will suffer it) so we can compare it with Red Len's 60 - 70%
Thanks for pointing this out and this is precisely why my comments are in the way they are, they try their best to find balance between BA propaganda and Union propaganda vs. The facts.The fact that BA is behaving dreadfully/immorally has been well-established and agreed upon across the board publicly and here. But no fingers have been pointed or at least as a minimum questions raised about the unions by majority of the BA insiders here. Sadly any negative mention of anything against legacy crew, or the Union strategy or something about MF is either met with no response, a defensive and semi-inaccurate response
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Old Jun 8, 2020, 7:46 am
  #1454  
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Originally Posted by BOH
Absolute classic example of the straw man argument
Its the airline business were talking about. Comments out of context are pointless.
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Old Jun 8, 2020, 7:47 am
  #1455  
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Originally Posted by Agent69
  • Why have you put the phrase 'fire & rehire' in inverted commas? Normally when the media do this they mean that what they have said isn't strictly true. There is a world of difference between threatening something and actually doing it. I just can't see BA firing 30,000 people and paying the associated redundancy money, only to rehire them again. Not in a million years
Whilst it seems illogical, it DOES make sense.

You are assuming that 30,000 people get fired on Monday and rehired on Tuesday. That WOULD be expensive - although, actually, it may make sense. Do it now, for statutory redudundancy pay, and all staff start with a clean slate. There will never need to be an expensive round of VR in the future.

However, they WON'T be rehired on Tuesday. Perhaps 20% are rehired the next day, to operate the July schedule, and then another 20% per month for four months. This is creates a HUGE cost saving for BA, albeit a bit of a bummer for the crew member who is offered their job back ..... starting in November.

Do the maths. Statutory redundancy is, what, one week per year? If you fire someone with 5 years service, pay them 5 weeks statutory and rehire them in 12 weeks, you've made a profit AND got a potential future VR liability off your books.
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