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BA to cut up to 12,000 jobs in "restructuring and redundancy programme"

BA to cut up to 12,000 jobs in "restructuring and redundancy programme"

Old Jun 9, 2020, 3:11 am
  #1486  
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Originally Posted by Jackanory
I Whether people agree with the unions campaign or not itís clear to see there is very little support for BA publicly for what they are doing. And if the unions campaign was to highlight that then it has been a success as it has cut through to the general public
And that will ultimately have ZERO effect on BA's business moving forward. A big round ZERO.

A tiny proportion of people may well remember this current "injustice"....about the same number who remember events like the most recent summer strikes (families left stranded / holidays ruined), the 2018 Spring bank holiday complete IT meltdown (families left stranded / holidays ruined) and the 2-3 incidents last year when the BA FLY system had a complete meltdown over the Spring / Summer resulting in mass delays and cancellations.

Lots of people interviewed at the time saying "BA are disgraceful, I will NEVER fly BA again" but at the the end of the day, we all know regular travellers will return and stay loyal because of the EC benefits / lounges / sheer size of BA-OW network and leisure travellers will always chase the lowest fare.
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Old Jun 9, 2020, 3:28 am
  #1487  
 
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Originally Posted by BOH

A tiny proportion of people may well remember this current "injustice"....about the same number who remember events like the most recent summer strikes (families left stranded / holidays ruined), the 2018 Spring bank holiday complete IT meltdown (families left stranded / holidays ruined) and the 2-3 incidents last year when the BA FLY system had a complete meltdown over the Spring / Summer resulting in mass delays and cancellations.
What you have described is all down to bad management decisions, and those that were caught up in it will remember it, whether they choose to fly with BA again because of it is another question.

One thing that I donít think anyone has yet touched upon yet is what happens if BA do exactly what everyone is saying: 12,000 job losses and the remaining 30,000 loose valuable terms and condition, who will BA management blame when the entire collective workforce begin taking strike action to regain their lost terms and conditions? Further disruption, further uncertainty about BA that will affect both consumer and shareholder confidence.
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Old Jun 9, 2020, 3:38 am
  #1488  
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Originally Posted by Jackanory
I also think that the readiness of some posters to this forum to just laud the actions of BA management as vital and necessary is quite something to read. The reduction in pay for 30,000 staff and redundancies for 12,000 will impact the financial and life decisions of those families. This will impact consumer spending in the long run and have a wider ripple throughout the economy. And whatís to then stop all other airlines and companies doing exactly the same thing further impacting the recovery? Iím sure many are watching what BA can get away with to swing their own axes down.
What is also "quite something to read" is the following:

a) that airline staff generally seem to think it is only airlines that are impacted by this virus
b) that a business facing a circa 95% reduction in income over virtually a whole financial quarter is really not that serious
c) that a business facing possibly (only possibly) getting back to 40% of it's usual income by the end of 2020 and not returning to 2019 levels until 2023 is "only" facing a short-term downturn
d) that the profits of the last 1-5 years are held in reserve by a company as a sort of war chest for situations like this and should now be used to pay staff
e) that major and far reaching change is not required when a major external event occurs - a once in 100 years event that could never have been predicted
f) that what BA is seeking to do at this moment is precisely what the unions do when the role is reversed and the odds are heavily in their favour.
g) a belief that BA are fraudulently using taxpayer money to furlough staff, then make some redundancies.
h) that usually, pay and conditions are set by a market rate involving supply and demand and anyone payed way above this due to a historic contract is on borrowed time. Even the unions recognise this otherwise they would not have agreed to the new MF running for new recruits running parallel to WW/EF fleets!

To illustrate point a) and g), this morning the employer of a former colleague of mine told the workforce that 45% of the workforce will be made redundant at the end of July and the remainder will be on a 3 day week (so 40% pay cut) until the end of 2020 at the earliest. Pretty much all the redundant will have been on the furlough scheme because at the start of the scheme no one (government included) could predict how deep this would be. Their market sector.......office furniture and shopfitting. This is affecting virtually everyone...
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Old Jun 9, 2020, 3:44 am
  #1489  
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Originally Posted by Jackanory
What you have described is all down to bad management decisions, and those that were caught up in it will remember it, whether they choose to fly with BA again because of it is another question.

One thing that I donít think anyone has yet touched upon yet is what happens if BA do exactly what everyone is saying: 12,000 job losses and the remaining 30,000 loose valuable terms and condition, who will BA management blame when the entire collective workforce begin taking strike action to regain their lost terms and conditions? Further disruption, further uncertainty about BA that will affect both consumer and shareholder confidence.
So let me just understand this. When you feel the pendulum has swung in your favour and traffic recovers to a suitable level you will seek to exploit this? By forcing your requirements onto the other party when you can see they are in a weaker position than you? But when the shoe is on the other foot it is "poor old me, look at what this bullying organisation is doing to us". Got it
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Old Jun 9, 2020, 3:54 am
  #1490  
 
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Originally Posted by BOH
What is also "quite something to read" is the following:

a) that airline staff generally seem to think it is only airlines that are impacted by this virus
b) that a business facing a circa 95% reduction in income over virtually a whole financial quarter is really not that serious
c) that a business facing possibly (only possibly) getting back to 40% of it's usual income by the end of 2020 and not returning to 2019 levels until 2023 is "only" facing a short-term downturn
d) that the profits of the last 1-5 years are held in reserve by a company as a sort of war chest for situations like this and should now be used to pay staff
e) that major and far reaching change is not required when a major external event occurs - a once in 100 years event that could never have been predicted
f) that what BA is seeking to do at this moment is precisely what the unions do when the role is reversed and the odds are heavily in their favour.
g) a belief that BA are fraudulently using taxpayer money to furlough staff, then make some redundancies.
h) that usually, pay and conditions are set by a market rate involving supply and demand and anyone payed way above this due to a historic contract is on borrowed time. Even the unions recognise this otherwise they would not have agreed to the new MF running for new recruits running parallel to WW/EF fleets!

To illustrate point a) and g), this morning the employer of a former colleague of mine told the workforce that 45% of the workforce will be made redundant at the end of July and the remainder will be on a 3 day week (so 40% pay cut) until the end of 2020 at the earliest. Pretty much all the redundant will have been on the furlough scheme because at the start of the scheme no one (government included) could predict how deep this would be. Their market sector.......office furniture and shopfitting. This is affecting virtually everyone...
But there really is no need to make anyone redundant while the Job Retention Scheme is in operation.
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Old Jun 9, 2020, 4:01 am
  #1491  
 
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Originally Posted by OhLordy
The 188 letters sent to the various staff groups (which now include pilots) state that BA will consider dismissing or terminate their contracts if agreement on the proposed changes cannot be reached.
So, to answer your question, itís still there and alive and kicking.
So where is the justificaton for all the people on this thread that keep saying BA will definately sack everyone?
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Old Jun 9, 2020, 4:06 am
  #1492  
 
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Originally Posted by dougzz
Time to put your trust in WW, that's a big ask.
It is a big ask, but if your union are refusng to talk, what alternatives are there.
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Old Jun 9, 2020, 4:07 am
  #1493  
 
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I say, folks.

Can we keep the mutual slagging off to the minimum?

This is generally a fascinating thread, with often factual contributions. Can we pl. keep it that way?

The attitude of some has already annoyed some great contributors - CIHY comes to mind.

Carefully expressed opinions are good. Wild swipes are not good.

IMHO, of course!!
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Old Jun 9, 2020, 4:07 am
  #1494  
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Originally Posted by Jackanory
But there really is no need to make anyone redundant while the Job Retention Scheme is in operation.
Ah but wouldn't that be fraudulent use of taxpayer money if you can't see a role being required after furlough finishes?.....only joking, but that is what I have read on here that some feel this is exactly what BA are doing and is wrong of them
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Old Jun 9, 2020, 4:08 am
  #1495  
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Originally Posted by Jackanory
But there really is no need to make anyone redundant while the Job Retention Scheme is in operation.
There is still a cost to any business employing people even when they are furloughed. If there is no expectation of needing a workforce of the same size over at least the next 1/2 years then starting the process of consultations and redundancies now is inevitable - many businesses are already doing this I am afraid.
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Old Jun 9, 2020, 4:09 am
  #1496  
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Originally Posted by Ancient Observer
I say, folks.

Can we keep the mutual slagging off to the minimum?

This is generally a fascinating thread, with often factual contributions. Can we pl. keep it that way?

The attitude of some has already annoyed some great contributors - CIHY comes to mind.

Carefully expressed opinions are good. Wild swipes are not good.

IMHO, of course!!
I don't see any "slagging off". I do see robust exchanges of different views though and there is a big difference and is natural that deeply opposing views will become robust by default. It seems to me the view / point is generally being challenged by all on each occasion, not the person.
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Old Jun 9, 2020, 4:12 am
  #1497  
 
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The world outside Aviation is pretty awful at present. I have a good friend who is an HR consultant, (don't all groan).
She goes home every day fed up that most of her work now is about Redundancies. There are very few of their contracts showing growth or profitability.
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Old Jun 9, 2020, 4:21 am
  #1498  
 
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I would add my feeling that this thread is becoming unreadable and unpalatable. I am not personally affected but have friends in the cockpit and cabin who are.

It is to me a little bit voyeuristic to have a public forum speculating on job losses in a private company when the community includes those personally affected. One side is visible to all and the other has the full anonymity of the internet. It matters not a jot to those personally affected by this what else is happening in other industries or other companies within aviation and telling them that others will have it worse is supposed to do what exactly?

Please use the forum to spread kindness and help. That is when FT is at its best.
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Old Jun 9, 2020, 4:31 am
  #1499  
 
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Originally Posted by rockflyertalk
What hit me the most from the show, taking it at face value (or lack of face as the case may be on radio), was the 17 yr old caller who wasnít sure if she would be able to go to university this autumn as her parents (BA employees) maybe in the bracket for new contract on less pay. Therefore the 17 yr old may have to get a job and help contribute to the parents mortgage. How utterly sad.
I didn't hear the show, but I assume nobody explained the facts of life to the 17yo? You know things like:
  • given the situation with Covid 19 it is unlikely that normal University courses will start in the autumn
  • if both your parents are still in employment in 3 months time you are doing a lot better than the million people who will have been made redundant
  • if your parents have been on the property ladder for 17 years then the size of their mortgage payments as a proportion of their salary will likely have gone down significantly
  • Have your parents considered downsizing, or buying a property in a cheaper area?

Ultimately lots of students go on a gap year break. Would it be the end of the world if the daughter didn't start uni until she was 18? This just looks like somebody who is far better off that most having a moan because life isn't perfect.
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Old Jun 9, 2020, 4:35 am
  #1500  
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Originally Posted by Robespierre
I would add my feeling that this thread is becoming unreadable and unpalatable. I am not personally affected but have friends in the cockpit and cabin who are.

It is to me a little bit voyeuristic to have a public forum speculating on job losses in a private company when the community includes those personally affected. One side is visible to all and the other has the full anonymity of the internet. It matters not a jot to those personally affected by this what else is happening in other industries or other companies within aviation and telling them that others will have it worse is supposed to do what exactly?

Please use the forum to spread kindness and help. That is when FT is at its best.
Lots of people in lots of industries are affected, not just aviation. It frequently reads that airlines here must be treated as a special case and pay and conditions must be uniquely protected and "no one is going what we are going through" and that BA are acting fraudulently with taxpayers money etc etc. On an internet forum that is specifically for posting views and opinions, surely it is accepted that sometimes those views and opinions might just be different?

Particularly if a poster from another industry knows that it is not a special case, that other companies are also making staff redundant having furloughed etc etc? Or are you saying that all the spin and propaganda being posted about definite mass BA sackings / so called fraudulent use of tax payer money should not be challenged and we should all just agree?
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