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BA to cut up to 12,000 jobs in "restructuring and redundancy programme"

BA to cut up to 12,000 jobs in "restructuring and redundancy programme"

Old Jun 7, 2020, 10:53 am
  #1396  
 
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Originally Posted by AirbusA350
So whilst BALPAís communications have been exceedingly well framed, factual, mature and realistic, Uniteís latest comms is a WhatsApp conversation (imaginary might I add) starring Alex Cruz, UK Government, Priti Patel and BA staff. You honestly couldnít make it up. This rather reads as some catty teenage email my nieces and nephews would send to their enemies in class. Not that of a supposed established organisation to which members pay into to try and protect them...yet again, I think Unite are becoming increasingly culpable along with BA for worsening their membersí mental health which I know has seemingly been ever so important to Unite!
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Old Jun 7, 2020, 10:56 am
  #1397  
 
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Originally Posted by Speedbird989
Thanks for posting. At least it allows everyone to see for real how, quite literally, stupid, immature and unprofessional it is...the same stuff spun again and again, but with no intention or action or attempts to do actually do anything about it.
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Last edited by AirbusA350; Jun 7, 2020 at 11:10 am
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Old Jun 7, 2020, 11:01 am
  #1398  
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Donít Unite know Iberia is buying Air Europa.
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Old Jun 7, 2020, 11:06 am
  #1399  
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Originally Posted by AirbusA350
Thanks for posting. At least it gives my comment some weight and allows everyone to see for real how, quite literally, stupid, immature and unprofessional it is...
So it doesn't raise any substantive points then?
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Old Jun 7, 2020, 11:49 am
  #1400  
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Originally Posted by V10
So it doesn't raise any substantive points then?
not that unite are meeting with BA anyway, However looking at the substantive points raised even if they were do you think BA would change anything if their points are

- you should stop your proposals since your parent company is buying Air Europa
- we will campaign for you to lose slots at BA
- you took part in the furlough scheme
- you refuse to meet with the Home Secretary about quarantine

Those are their substantive arguments to try and stop BA going through with their proposals to reduced numbers and change terms and conditions?

I know itís been asked before, but I really would like to get a sense of whether cabin crew, and especially EF & WW who stand to lose the most, agree with Uniteís strategy?
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Old Jun 7, 2020, 12:04 pm
  #1401  
 
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Originally Posted by V10
So it doesn't raise any substantive points then?
It looks like it's designed to pull in likes on Twitter more than everything else. Presumably this is the PR campaign in action.
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Old Jun 7, 2020, 12:10 pm
  #1402  
 
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Originally Posted by KARFA
I know itís been asked before, but I really would like to get a sense of whether cabin crew, and especially EF & WW who stand to lose the most, agree with Uniteís strategy?
Well tbh, I feel the entire core ďstrategyĒ (there is none other than a negative PR campaign against BA) is likely stemming from the 2 fleets you mention and very likely to have been an upper hand strategy taken by the more influential sub-section of Unite (one can figure out what that is, I neednít name it). Letís say this isnít that sub-sectionís actual desired strategy, then itís likely to be Lenís.

For sure the opinions of MF are mostly veering towards opposition to the Unionís strategy, and my partner mentions that any posts of opposition on twitter/Facebook are being blocked/deleted by the Union too. Of course on paper all branches of Unite and GMB have come together, itís quite blatant where the influence for it all is coming, hence all the focus in every single article, in every single interview about 75%, 60% and 50% pay cuts and seldom of any significant mention from any other employee group. Some might find this comment angering or a bitter pill to swallow, but sometimes we do need hard truths. The union is betraying its members too now, at least some parts of it. If Unite/GMB tried and like BALPA were met with an updated S188, then all this leverage has proper substance and will likely actually achieve something, but having not engaged and crying foul is just taking the p*ss now! Interesting to see this forum is also remarkably quiet on the MF angle to this, despite me and a handful of others mentioning it previously!

Last edited by AirbusA350; Jun 7, 2020 at 12:17 pm
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Old Jun 7, 2020, 12:14 pm
  #1403  
 
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Originally Posted by AirbusA350
Thanks for posting. At least it allows everyone to see for real how, quite literally, stupid, immature and unprofessional it is...the same stuff spun again and again, but with no intention or action or attempts to do actually do anything about it.
It may not be to everyoneís taste, but I can see how it would appeal to a younger generation. Iím guessing it was developed with a specific audience in mind. Just because you find it distasteful doesnít mean it wonít achieve its purpose (the communication not the Unionís strategy).
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Old Jun 7, 2020, 12:20 pm
  #1404  
 
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Originally Posted by Jackanory
It may not be to everyoneís taste, but I can see how it would appeal to a younger generation. Iím guessing it was developed with a specific audience in mind. Just because you find it distasteful doesnít mean it wonít achieve its purpose (the communication not the Unionís strategy).
Ok fine, letís say this is old-fashioned, old, boring me being closed and narrow-minded about this (reality is Iíd like to think Iím none of those as Iím actually not too far off from what they call ďmillennialsĒ), however, let me try and level this out -
What purpose will any of these communications achieve?

BA losing slots? General public revolting against BA and never flying with them again? Jobs being protected? ďSoft landingsĒ for legacy crew? Withdrawal of S188? Sudden tremendous UK employment law change (before 15th June and before BA have actioned any redundancies)?

Itís achieved none of those thus far. Letís say it achieves the first 2 (as theyíre the most ďrealisticĒ amongst others) what does that then cause? Likely more redundancies and job losses owing to even more reduced business for BA. Yes that does the employees a hell of a lot of good doesnít it?

Yet again I donít need to mention the emotions these comms can cause for its members, of worsening anger, of distress and of anxiety. As if BAís dreadful behaviour alone wasnít enough emotion already...
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Last edited by AirbusA350; Jun 7, 2020 at 12:31 pm
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Old Jun 7, 2020, 12:29 pm
  #1405  
 
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Originally Posted by AirbusA350
Thanks for posting. At least it allows everyone to see for real how, quite literally, stupid, immature and unprofessional it is...the same stuff spun again and again, but with no intention or action or attempts to do actually do anything about it.
I suspect that lots of people will have a good giggle at this, but it's unlikley to change much.
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Old Jun 7, 2020, 12:36 pm
  #1406  
 
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Originally Posted by Ancient Observer
Detailed CC proposals are available over on pprune.
And the response in the following post was 'this doesn't look much different to what MF are currently on'.

Have I correctly interpreted the numbers that there are currently 16,000 CC and the revised proposal is for less than 10,000?
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Old Jun 7, 2020, 1:05 pm
  #1407  
 
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Originally Posted by Waterhorse
I mentioned the PM's pay to highlight the fallacy of the argument over CEOs and city bankers and others pay being down to their level of financial responsibility. Given that many who post here earn more than the PM yet feel fully justified in their bonus and salary levels while telling others they are not worth it, I thought the hypocrisy worthy of highlighting.

The bonus pay issue was again to highlight that given record levels of profit no All Colleague Bonus was paid. The whole purpose of a bonus is to incentivise the workforce. There is no right to a bonus but the point is that given record profit levels and no bonus, the scheme serves to disincentivise and demoralise the workforce - hence the first pilot strike in BA history. We are not dealing with stellar quality management. Irrelevant, obviously, for this year but serves to illustrate how poor management thinks - record profits but dont let the workers share in that success.

Redundancy - all workers live in the cocooned world of their own creation, but again there is never a right to more than mandatory CR packages. But given the furore on social media as to BAs proposed treatment of staff in the C19 pandemic, the public think they should get a little more more.

We all all entitled to the levels of pay that we signed a contract for, doubtless you feel, as we all do, that you are within your rights to expect to get what you were contracted to earn. Whether or not that is privileged or at greater than market rate is rather irrelevant. Sure the company want/need to reduce their costs but it is how it is done that is the issue. Taking tax payers money on a scheme designed to protect jobs while slashing jobs is probably not the way to do it.

I hope all those who have been telling us, who are staff,that we should be grateful for the bare minimum, that we are overpaid and deserve to be got rid of or only paid market rate do not fall foul of their bosses doing the same to them when the true economic damage of C19 becomes clear. I wish you all the best and that your respective companies flourish, that none of you are in the same situation.

My sympathies lie with my colleagues whose are lives are going to change for the worst in a dramtic fashion, and i make no apologies for that.
I'm not certain who suggested that pay was related to financial responsibility. My point is that pay is normally regulated by supply and demand. If a job is easy to do (shelf filling in Tesco) lots of people will have the necessary skills, there will be lots of potential supply, and as a result the wages will be low. Airline pilots on the other hand are highly skilled, there is limited supply and wages are significantly higher. If there is a big queue outside the door you can offer a bit less, and if there is no queue then you need to up the ante.

I have worked in the construction industry for 40 years and have had 4 employers. At various times I have received a bonus, but it has never affected my attitude to work. I work hard and give 100% all the time. The suggestion that people getting paid 50% above the market rate are in need of a bonus to incentivise them to work hard is further evidence of the privileged, cocooned world in which some exist.

I have previously stated that I am not in favour of people having their salary cut while being asked to do effectively do the same job, but I am also fundamentally opposed to strikes. For me the bottom line is that if the unions are constantly playing dirty, then they won't get a lot of sympathy when they cry foul.

Nobody is suggesting that staff should get paid the bare minimum, but I do wonder what additional contribution the legacy crew make to BA to justify the additional 50% salary?
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Old Jun 7, 2020, 1:26 pm
  #1408  
 
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This isn’t just about cabin crew, this is happening across the board to lots of staff in many areas of British Airways.

What is it with you people that all you talk about is legacy cabin crew! You come across as very obsessed.
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Old Jun 7, 2020, 1:31 pm
  #1409  
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Originally Posted by Silver Fox
Of course I meant with the passenger loads previously. Sorry, I will try to be clearer next time for you. However, I expect them to be extremely profitable after they have taken this hit in 2020 (plus a bit beyond).

There is no one answer to the other questions you posed that fits all those countries, and anyway it is an irrelevance and a distraction to this conversation. And the same is true of UK employment of course. But, since we are assisting each other, there is a wealth of publicly available research on those kinds of questions from very well regarded institutions, and you should draw your own conclusions as to whether these is a single answer or not that can be applied. It's well worth investing some of your time in researching them. You will have to go back prior to 2007/8 by a wider margin than you suggested though.
Why is it suddenly "an irrelevance and a distraction"....it was yourself that raised the subject of employment laws of the UK compared to the EU

Well whatever data you look at and over what time period, maybe the UK has got it's employment laws more or less right in the last few decades, given that for the last 12 years our unemployment rate has been very consistently (and quite significantly) below those of many other large EU economies?
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Old Jun 7, 2020, 1:37 pm
  #1410  
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Originally Posted by Speedbird989
I am literally gobsmacked and lost for words if this is seriously the best that UNITE can come up with. What an unprofessional, childish and immature approach. If this is the outfit that is negotiating on behalf of BA staff then the BA management must be rubbing their hands in glee. A truly mind boggling approach.
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