Science Goy

I'm confused. You're saying that AA should hold upgrades for eligible elites who never requested them? Why would they do that? If someone doesn't request an upgrade, it's pretty reasonable to assume they don't want one.

pssteve

Based on research by SUKN @ post #87 seems like they already have done it. I also would not have believed that they would status match the UA folks grattis. But Maya's replacement seems determined to put her stamp on AAdvantage.

sukn

No, all I am saying is that there are elites who do not request an upgrade until they checkin online (which may happen anywhere inside the 24-hr mark) or until they arrive at the airport. Most do this because they do not know they could have requested an upgrade in advance, others assume that's how upgrades work. At the very least AA needs to accommodate for this behavior in their algorithm -- which it clearly is not doing at this time.

Also, remember that selling LFBUs at the 24-hr. mark will also have unintended consequences for F passengers in general during irrops and cancellations as those passengers have to be accommodated elsewhere into fewer available F seats.

NiceLanding

When AA first got serious about matching UA 1Ks to EXP, giving immediate grants of 8 SWUs, the outcry from EXPs here seemed to have been heard. AA very quickly changed the deal to require 30k miles/points to get those SWUs.

Before the takeover by CO, I saw ample evidence that UA could be convinced to rescind or alter some new policies after receiving maybe a few dozen complaints from 1Ks. Half the things I complained about myself were changed. If anything, AA seems to be listening even better than that, so I don't see why we could not make a difference.

You may think we have little influence, but a small vocal group is often assumed to represent a far larger group that feels the same way, but does not speak up.

Science Goy

I guess that's where we disagree. If you don't request an upgrade, it's fair for the airline to assume you don't want one. Anyway, I imagine those customers would have a hard time upgrading regardless of LFBUs, given that they'd be at the bottom of the list by time of request.

MiamiAirport Formerly NY George

I wonder what the LFBU acceptance rate is. It can't be all that high.

beachfan

Sounds similar to when the first instituted Premium Seats, where Kettles got them before Elites (for a fee). Now they have revised that policy.

sukn

It's not that these folks didn't request an upgrade, it is that they didn't request an upgrade at least 24-hrs. in advance -- which is no different than a walk up fare who wants to be placed on the upgrade list.

As to your second point, in LFBU scenarios, it would seem these last minute upgrade requests would clear were in not for the online LFBUs.

Mark_T

I have a hard time blaming AA for this aspect.

There has to be a point at which they can reasonably say that elites have had sufficient opportunity to request an upgrade and in the absence of those requests they are good to try and sell them to non-elites.

Doing that at the 24 hour mark when OLCI opens seems not unreasonable to me as it gives them the best chance of selling what needs to be sold after giving elites days, weeks or even months to make the request depending on when the reservation was made.

If you don't do this and you want to accommodate even those who wait until they get to the airport or perhaps even the departure gate then you leave AA pretty much unable to sell them to anyone, which doesn't seem reasonable.

Science Goy

Exactly. There are times when I check in for my flight 45 minutes to departure or less. Expecting AA to hold an upgrade open for me until that point would be ridiculous.

beachfan

Just to be clear to casual readers, the OP was on the upgrade list for about a month and on the airport list as well.

sukn

It's not really a blame game. It is simply a behavior exhibited by a percentage of the elite pool that is well known to AA and they need to figure out a way to compensate for it.

nickflies

It has happened, sure. But we are far from any sort of confirmation that this is, indeed, a new policy. It could be anything from sporadic computer glitches to a controlled test of a new system, but at this point we do not have confirmation that AA is implementing a new policy that lets non-elites UG with cash before elites can upgrade at all.

That was not my intention. Rather, I was trying to illustrate a scenario that (while perhaps slightly politically incorrect) could play out on AA planes throughout the world if this starts to happen: 'traditional' business-EXP types notice that their upgrades aren't clearing and all of a sudden there's a lot more of the 'casual traveler' crowd in F. This is when we could see the calls coming into AA.

However, I will say that for revenue considerations, an infrequent traveler "coughing up the extra money" once or twice for a $90 LFBU is immaterial to the company's bottom line if it manages to kill revenue from EXPs that are flying weekly.

Again, I'm not denying the possibility that EXPs could be 'pushed' to sticker/LFBU upgrades in the future, but I find it extremely unlikely that AA would implement a system where elites have all of their UGs sold out from under them without the chance to purchase themselves - if for no reason other than elites would likely purchase a lot of them, not to mention the fallout of angering many good customers.

Mark_T

Honestly I don't see any reason why they should have to compensate for it, having the ability to add yourself to the airport list via OLCI is about as far as we could reasonable ask them to go I'd have thought, and we already have that..

nor4

I'm one of those 1Ks who switched to AA via the recent EXP "sale"

I"ve spent a chunk of money getting my first 30K by 8/31 and will use the newly available SWUs to get the rest of my miles by years end (I fly a lot of int'l so the SWUs usable on any fare were a big selling point). So more $ for AA and less for UA.

The other big selling point was the UDU AA offered, similar to UA. But, just as the int'l package offered by AA was better than UAs version, the UDU offered by AA seemed better as well, given UA's "kettle sales".

This thread suggests AA is becoming a bit more like UA, which causes me to pause in my planning for next year's flights.

The problem is, as my English grandmother used to say, being "penny wise and pound foolish". By encouraging UA flyers to come over to AA with a seemingly better deal (and better customer relations, at least so far) AA is getting more than my current $, they are getting my loyalty, which will yield more $ in future years. I will fly AA even if I can find a cheaper, more direct routing because of the benefits of being an EXP with AA.

But if I'm treated poorly, as UA learned (I hope, but doubt) AA will lose some portion of their loyal much-traveled flyers. The promise of providing UDUs and then pulling them away secretly would definitely cause me to rethink my decision to become "loyal" to AA.

As to the discussion of not wanting an upgrade, I don't comprehend that logic. What's not to want?

The problem is one that I've only learned about on FT. If you don't request at T24 you disappear off the UG list. This is new to me and nothing that I saw in the material sent to me with my EXP card.

So I wouldn't put too much weight on most non-FT EXPs even knowing the need to request a UG within 24 hours. Everything I received from AA simply said I would get unlimited domestic upgrades, nothing about making a new request within the 24 hours window if the UG hadn't already cleared.