NauticalWheeler

You do realize that AA is the last legacy (of 6) to file for bankruptcy? I would say they did a very good job. One of the legacies, US Airways, has filed for bankruptcy protection twice.

pssteve

And the OP (EXP) should have been UG'd days before. I can not figure out why AA could not UG the OP at T-80 hours yet could sell LFBU at24 hour mark.
AAvantage is so persistent/aggressive with 3-5 emails a day you would think it would be straight forward to send a notice that this situation was a Glitch (unlikely)or that AA's long standing procedures are changing and all elites can pound sand.
Silence is not Golden in this matter.

brp

EXPs frequently do not get upgraded until closer to the flight, so the supposition that the OP "should have been UG'd days before" is an inaccurate as it is irrelevant to this conversation.

Cheers.

gemac

It's getting the wording of the offer right that's difficult. Something like "We know that you have flown 100,000 miles with us this year, and we do remember that we promised you unlimited free domestic upgrades if we did not sell all the first class seats on your flights, but we have just discovered that Mr. Kettle might be willing to slip us 45 clams to sit in first. We have carefully weighed his 45 clams against your 100,000 miles, and have decided he wins. If you really want that seat, you have to pony up 45 clams, and do it before he does, so you better get right on it. And by the way, thanks for flying that 100,000 miles with us."

oopsz

Three times if you include America West's bankruptcy. Delta and Northwest both independently filed BK before merging. United filed BK before merging with Continental.. and Continental filed BK twice in the 90s.

Until the AA BK filing CO was the major most removed from Bankruptcy. (This is the main reason for the scope clause heartburn between CO pilots and UA pilots- CO has a great scope clause because it predates the most recent round of airline bankruptcies.)

In any case -- AA has done well so far but everyone else had their costs slashed in BK over the past 20 years so it became inevitable.

There remains one airline that's been in operation for over 30 years and has never gone BK. Southwest.

Also, investing in the airline industry is a terrible idea.

beerup

...or alternatively "Great news! We are so confident that we can give you yet another complimentary upgrade on this flight that we are letting Mr. Kettle try it out too. In the process we are collecting $45 towards improving the service in the future."

Despite all the discussion and speculation in this thread and others, AFAIK, there has not been a single veritable instance reported on FT of an elite missing an upgrade when an LFBU had been sold on that flight. Maybe the OP of this thread came close, but unless he comes back and claims otherwise, the evidence suggests that he was upgraded (and no LFBUs were sold).

sukn

Might want to check out post 87:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/19157023-post87.html

brp

Only a few of those even imply that an elite who had initially requested prior to 24 hours was denied. All of the "I was offered..." anecdotes are irrelevant as they are not germane to the central issue. So, the number of things that are even claims (not verified) are a fraction of that post. Tempest, meet teapot.

Cheers.

gemac

If they had as much confidence in their ability to predict as you have, they would upgrade all elites on the list before selling LFBUs. AA believes that elites will lose upgrades because they are selling LFBUs.

beerup

They make predictions of F seats going empty once elites are upgraded and sell LFBU accordingly. What is most surprising to me is that, despite this practice going on for some time, we have not had a case of an elite posting here that they were denied an upgrade on a flight where a LFBU was sold, and the claim being substantiated by those who have access to the relevant flight information. I, too, would prefer that LFBUs were not sold until my upgrade had cleared, but I understand the business plan and I think it is reasonable. AA has made a statement in black and white that they are protecting the interests of their elites while exploring options to increase revenue and, to date, they don't appear to have gone UA on us!

sukn

What???

Where did you find this official policy?

fastflyer

I believe that the way the software is programmed, it is after elites with upgrade requests _at the airport_ that are unfulfilled. Not simply all upgrade requests.

The elite must have been added to the airport list to take priority over the LFBU.

In the 24 hours before the flight, the LFBUs can clear as long as the airport
upgrade request list remains empty of elites (and I further believe that list may be populated only by physical presence at the airport).

brp

What is this "belief" based on, if I may ask? Since upgrades clear off the original list, and not the airport list, for about 21 hours after check-in is available, this belief makes no sense with regard to the way AA's systems currently work.

Cheers.

beerup

Maybe I worded it poorly. What I meant was: if the estimation from the algorithm predicts that there are more seats available that elites on the waitlist (i.e., if under the counterfactual there would be seats available once all the elites have cleared), then LFBUs are offered.

Official policy according the the FAQs on AA.com:
http://www.aa.com/i18n/utility/FAQs/...iceCheckIn.jsp


Edited to add: I must say though, it's interesting use of the term "determined" when they are accounting for "customers who want to buy full-fare tickets". If they base their actions on the output of an algorithm then it is generally a dynamic approximation which, by definition, is probabilistic rather than deterministic. It's highly unlikely that AA deterministically knows exactly who wants to buy full-fare tickets (even if they know why we fly).

Mark_T

The statement of mine you quoted is inaccurate, rereading the original AA information on LFBU makes it clear that they are not actually clearing the upgrade list before selling LFBU, they are forecasting how things are likely to end up.

The airport list does not factor into this until the flight goes under airport control, up to that point the original upgrade list is still being processed.