nor4

My mistake. I thought I saw "stickies" on some other thread used to refer to stickers that one could purchase for 500 mile UG segments. Lots of new jargon here.

phlashba

Correct by my count --- and OP may already be in DEN

tucsnaz

As an AA EXP you do not need to purchase 500 mile upgrade stickers. Domestic upgrades are complimentary when space is available.

Reading the posts at thetop of the AA forum will help you with some of this information.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...ere-first.html

beerup

Jon has posted on TB that no LFBUs were sold on the flight and so they did not account for the change in the load in F the day before. (Also, the OP's upgrade apparently cleared at the gate).

However, it doesn't change the fact that at least one LFBU was offered before the OP's upgrade had cleared (according to the OP). The LFBU may have been offered before the change in load (not anticipated by RM), but even so, it appears that it didn't follow AA's written policy if an EXP is still on the waitlist while an LFBU is offered. ...but hopefully just a glitch.

Edited to add: It seems that the policy is to offer LFBUs when it is anticipated that they won't deprive elite upgrades, but not necessarily after those upgrades have cleared (see thread linked by Science Goy in post #141). I had been under the assumption that if RM were confident that there was enough space to clear all elite upgrades, then they would clear them there and then. I think this revelation changes the context somewhat since offering LFBUs does not constitute a deviation from AA's written policy (contrary to the basis of this thread).

aa213bb

I'm sure I'll feel like a collosal idiot, but what is TB?

Science Goy

Not idiotic by any means. TB = Traveling Better, a lesser-visited travel-oriented forum (which some argue is more reliable and has better inside information on AA than FT). The relevant thread is here:

http://www.travelingbetter.com/forum...?t=5198&page=3

beerup

I believe (hope) that AA are sticking with their policy of LFBU not depriving elite upgrades. However, thinking about the logistics, there appears to be a complication to the implementation of the policy, which may explain why LFBUs have been offered before elites have cleared. The following is my speculation and is not based upon any inside information on the workings of the process.

When RM assesses that all elite upgrades will clear and there will be remaining seats in F, they offer LFBUs during check-in. Clearly to maximize revenue and to avoid a debacle at the gate, LFBUs need to be offered at check-in.

The complication: if RM wants to make provisions for unexpected and unlikely (according to their algorithms) changes in loads, it may be that elite upgrades need to be held back since these can easily clear at the gate without commotion.

Under most circumstances, the elites would subsequently clear. However, in the infrequent scenario where there are a number of walk-up sales or re-bookings of distressed passengers reducing the number of available seats in F below RM's estimates, then the elites would lose their upgrades even though LFBUs have been sold.

One potential way around this scenario would be if LFBU works as a standby for first, i.e., if someone purchased a LFBU and the loads subsequently change, they can get downgraded (they are load-factor based upgrades after all) and they would receive a refund of the upgrade fee, but get to enjoy Priority. Don't Y-UP K-UP fares work that way, but without the refund? However, AFAIK, that is not the way LFBUs work.

Therefore, on the small number of occasions when RM's estimates do not hold up, LFBUs may have been sold and some elites subsequently do not clear. Of course, the earlier LFBUs are sold, the more likely this scenario is to arise. Offering LFBU during OLCI increases revenue for sure, but it likely opens up this potential pitfall more often. I guess I'm fine with that - to have a more profitable airline, but maybe very occasionally lose out on an upgrade is okay by me. We'll see how it plays out, but if the policy does work the way I suggested, it's a whole lot better than UA or DL where the sky really is falling!

Mark_T

I guess as an EXP I feel pretty much the same, the risk that RM might get it wrong occasionally is balanced by the fact that the upgrade is free, so we should regard the offer of LFBU during OLCI as a sign that we are very likely to clear if we are already on the list.

Even as Plat/Gold who has been on the upgrade list for some time, if it does occasionally not clear at the gate due to an unexpected change, the stickers are still in your account to be used next time.

So in future we should consider this as a 'good thing' not a reason to complain

JMN57

I still have a problem that the elite didn't get a chance to be the purchaser of the LFBU. EXPs may view the trade-off of free upgrade vs. pay for LFBU as a non-starter (why pay for something that I normally get for free) but PLAT/GOLDs are already paying for it with stickers.

I understand the policy is that LFBUs will only be sold when it is clear that elites can be accommodated and there are left over seats.

But I can see a few circumstances where that fails. 1 - OPs case where it seems passengers from a cancelled/missed flight were rescheduled onto OPs flight but RM didn't realize it and offered LFBUs or 2 - what some have indicated upthread - that EXPs request a late upgrade therefore increasing the upgrade list and, my understanding, going to the top of it over PLAT/GOLDs.

Both of these scenarios are ones where PLAT/GOLDs who AA believed would get upgrades (heck, if that's the case do everyone a favor and send the e-mail that you have been upgraded out) don't.

rikramer

I previously posted about this exact scenario. I was on a flight (ORD-LGA I believe). I cleared to First. My colleagues, both of whom are EXP didn't clear. The gentleman beside me in F was bragging about having upgraded at check-in for only $90. This was the first I heard about this. Needless to say my co-workers were none too happy. One has since moved over to Delta. I'm not sure if this is a policy change, but if it's a system error then it has happened in more cases than just the OPs.

Mark_T

As we understand this process, it is not a system error, nor would the process normally result in an elite member who has been on the upgrade list for more than 24 hours failing to get an upgrade.

What is not guaranteed though is that all elites on the list will get upgraded before LFBU are offered during check-in, but the aim is that those still on the list will be upgraded before departure.

Net result is that if something changes significantly after the non-elites have purchased an upgrade then one or more people on the upgrade list may end up out of luck.

It will happen from time to time, but it should not be frequent.

richarddd

It's neither a policy change nor an error.

The policy is to offer LBFUs based on a prediction of F loads. If their estimate is wrong, there might not be enough space for elite upgrades. They rarely get it wrong or there would be more complaints here. See the travelingbetter.com thread http://www.travelingbetter.com/forum...8583#post38583, especially #28

brp

Not exactly, with regard to point #2. You DO have to re-request the upgrade when you OLCI, but it needn't be at T-24. Why not do it then? Once checked-in, t is very hard (at best) to change seats. So, if the upgrade clears, say, 3 hours later, you likely will be stuck with that seat. If you defer OLCI until later than T-24, you increase the chance of the upgrade coming through when you can still change seats.

Just had this happen yesterday for mrs. brp's upgrade. We were already at the first airport, so not checking in by then was not an option, of course. But she cleared the onward leg maybe 4, 4.5 hours before the flight. It was not the airport list (those don't typically send upgrade notifications, and this did). But no seat change possible.

Cheers.

olddallas

This is a good point. The algorithm for assigning upgrade seats is definitely optimized for separating the primary and the companion. The best thing is to get the email and immediately go online to change the seats.

The idea of offering seats at check in to non-elites when elites are still on the wait list is terrible, especially if GOLDs or PLATs are eager to fork over sticker dollars. Please upgrade us and send us the email. I am astonished at both the number of first class seats left open and going to airport control the last few months and how many of those disappear before the PLATs get a shot. Are there that many EXPs missing connections or buying tickets 2 or 3 hours before departure? Of course, if I am left in coach because a non-elite scored an upgrade, I can't really hear the guy brag about scoring his upgrade from my coach seat can I?

brp

Not really. We always end up close together when things are open. Since we both have "aisle" as a preference, it makes sense that we're not seated together. But, if only one gets the upgrade we want to make sure it's an aisle, so we leave it that way. We do end up with the two closest available aisles, so the algorithm seems to be working given the preferences we have set up.

Cheers.