Aug 1, 2013, 5:57 pm
Last edit by: Exec_Plat
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FWAAA post 382: In the 10-K filed on February 20, 2013, AA confirmed that it now has ordered a total of 20 77W; two delivered in 2012, eight more in 2013, six more in 2014 and two each in 2015 and 2016 for a total of 20:
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....5fUEFHRSZleHA9
16 total 77Ws by the end of next year plus at least four more after that.
Scheduling information: AA 777-300ER / 77W Schedule, Routes (consolidated)
777 family range (Boeing)
Both of AA's 777s are -ER (Extended Range) models, the common 777-223ER and new 777-323ER. Not much range difference, but significant capacity difference. No 200-LRs (Long Range, AKA "Worldliner",) in the future at this time.
777-300ER:
N717AN 7LA
N718AN 7LB
N719AN 7LC
N720AN 7LD
N721AN 7LE
N722AN 7LF
N723AN 7LG
N724AN 7LH
N725AN 7LJ
N726AN 7LK
N727AN 7LL
Updated from planespotters.net:
N728AN 7LM
N729AN 7LN
N730AN 7LP
N731AN 7LR
N732AN 7LS
N733AR 7LT
Based on this data there are 17 77Ws in service Oct 2015.
FWAAA post 382: In the 10-K filed on February 20, 2013, AA confirmed that it now has ordered a total of 20 77W; two delivered in 2012, eight more in 2013, six more in 2014 and two each in 2015 and 2016 for a total of 20:
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....5fUEFHRSZleHA9
16 total 77Ws by the end of next year plus at least four more after that.
Scheduling information: AA 777-300ER / 77W Schedule, Routes (consolidated)
777 family range (Boeing)
Both of AA's 777s are -ER (Extended Range) models, the common 777-223ER and new 777-323ER. Not much range difference, but significant capacity difference. No 200-LRs (Long Range, AKA "Worldliner",) in the future at this time.
777-300ER:
N717AN 7LA
N718AN 7LB
N719AN 7LC
N720AN 7LD
N721AN 7LE
N722AN 7LF
N723AN 7LG
N724AN 7LH
N725AN 7LJ
N726AN 7LK
N727AN 7LL
Updated from planespotters.net:
N728AN 7LM
N729AN 7LN
N730AN 7LP
N731AN 7LR
N732AN 7LS
N733AR 7LT
Based on this data there are 17 77Ws in service Oct 2015.
AA Boeing 777-300ER / 77W orders, 20 orders + deliveries confirmed as of 2013
Jan 19, 2011, 1:22 pm
#166
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: LI, NY
Programs: AA PLT, AAdv since Day One
Posts: 2,682
Markets like Singapore, Bangkok, Jakarta, Kuala Lumpur, HK, southern China are where the growth is for the foreseeable future and JL does not serve them well. Having your own metal into a major regional hub, which is also the hub of a OW partner, is important.
Jan 19, 2011, 1:24 pm
#167
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: los angeles, calif.
Programs: Alaska Airlines Gold MVP
Posts: 7,170
Pure speculation on my part, but two 77Ws just isn't enough. Some long-haul routes even essentially require that an airline have three of the type to operate efficiently.
I am guessing that either AA has a plan to acquire more 77Ws from another source, AA will convert its existing 772 orders to 77W or both.
As for routes, three new routes that aren't possible with the 772:
MIA-NRT
MIA-JNB-CPT-MIA
ORD-BOM
I am guessing that either AA has a plan to acquire more 77Ws from another source, AA will convert its existing 772 orders to 77W or both.
As for routes, three new routes that aren't possible with the 772:
MIA-NRT
MIA-JNB-CPT-MIA
ORD-BOM
Jan 19, 2011, 1:37 pm
#168
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Downers Grove, IL
Programs: UA Mileage Plus, AA Advantage
Posts: 5,983
Pure speculation on my part, but two 77Ws just isn't enough. Some long-haul routes even essentially require that an airline have three of the type to operate efficiently.
I am guessing that either AA has a plan to acquire more 77Ws from another source, AA will convert its existing 772 orders to 77W or both.
As for routes, three new routes that aren't possible with the 772:
MIA-NRT
MIA-JNB-CPT-MIA
ORD-BOM
I am guessing that either AA has a plan to acquire more 77Ws from another source, AA will convert its existing 772 orders to 77W or both.
As for routes, three new routes that aren't possible with the 772:
MIA-NRT
MIA-JNB-CPT-MIA
ORD-BOM
Jan 19, 2011, 1:54 pm
#169
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Location: LAX; AA EXP, MM; HH Gold
Posts: 31,789
I understand your point but I disagree this is a reason not to do it. There are several examples where AA and a OW partner both fly between a US gateway and a foreign city that is the hub of the OW partner. JFK-LHR with BA, JFK/ORD/LAX-NRT with JL to name a few. It is about capacity versus demand (Is one CX flight enough between ORD and HKG?) and the fact that buying a tix on an AA flight is different then buying one on an AA codeshare in terms of price and marketing, not to mention serving your elites.
Maybe the plan is that AA takes over ORD-HKG in late 2012 or early 2013?
Jan 19, 2011, 2:09 pm
#170
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: London
Programs: BA GGL, AA 1MM LT GLD, SPG PLAT, National Exec Selc, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Plat, Marriott Silver
Posts: 8,278
Given that UA already serves ORD-HKG and that the new service by CX will double the ORD-HKG capacity, a 777-300ER by AA would almost triple the ORD-HKG capacity. There may be sufficient Oneworld traffic to HKG to justify doubling the capacity from Chicago, but I'm skeptical that there's enough traffic to justify tripling the Chicago-Hong Kong capacity. I've been wrong before, though.
Maybe the plan is that AA takes over ORD-HKG in late 2012 or early 2013?
Maybe the plan is that AA takes over ORD-HKG in late 2012 or early 2013?
DFW-HKG seems more likely if you ask me.
Jan 19, 2011, 2:10 pm
#171
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 12,097
AA is immunized or pending immunization with BA, JL and QF, all of which have 777-300ERs in their fleet. Therefore if needed the 2 77Ws could be put in a metal-neutral market in rotation with another partner's 77Ws, e.g. the same schedule is being operated on (roughly) alternate days with alternate metal 77Ws.
Of course the economics of only owning 2 of a sub-type would still look pretty awful and I totally believe that there will be more to the story. Are unionized employees contract an issue?
Of course the economics of only owning 2 of a sub-type would still look pretty awful and I totally believe that there will be more to the story. Are unionized employees contract an issue?
Jan 19, 2011, 2:20 pm
#172
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: East Coast
Programs: UA Lifetime Gold, AA Lifetime Platinum, Delta PM, Marriott Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 1,522
Given that UA already serves ORD-HKG and that the new service by CX will double the ORD-HKG capacity, a 777-300ER by AA would almost triple the ORD-HKG capacity. There may be sufficient Oneworld traffic to HKG to justify doubling the capacity from Chicago, but I'm skeptical that there's enough traffic to justify tripling the Chicago-Hong Kong capacity. I've been wrong before, though.
Maybe the plan is that AA takes over ORD-HKG in late 2012 or early 2013?
Maybe the plan is that AA takes over ORD-HKG in late 2012 or early 2013?
Jan 19, 2011, 2:32 pm
#173
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: East Coast
Programs: UA Lifetime Gold, AA Lifetime Platinum, Delta PM, Marriott Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 1,522
I just read the news release again and it says the plane will be delivered in 2012. So no need to speculate about the routing for these birds in 2011 if AA does not receive them until 2012.
Jan 19, 2011, 2:35 pm
#174
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: NYC/SYD
Programs: Virtuoso Travel Advisor. FSPP, Ritz STARS, Rosewood Elite, Belmond BelliniClub. SPG PRO
Posts: 2,445
Late 2012 at that. Plenty of time for everyone to have a "i said that last year" guess.
Jan 19, 2011, 2:36 pm
#175
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Location: LAX; AA EXP, MM; HH Gold
Posts: 31,789
Jan 19, 2011, 2:36 pm
#176
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Mostly AUS or rural England
Programs: BAEC redundant Bronze, AAdvantage Lifetime PLT, CO, WN, B6
Posts: 6,526
AA is immunized or pending immunization with BA, JL and QF, all of which have 777-300ERs in their fleet. Therefore if needed the 2 77Ws could be put in a metal-neutral market in rotation with another partner's 77Ws, e.g. the same schedule is being operated on (roughly) alternate days with alternate metal 77Ws.
One question I haven't seen is can the pilots operate both these and the -200ER's? Do they have the same cockpit or do new simulators etc. etc.?
Jan 19, 2011, 3:09 pm
#177
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: NYC/SYD
Programs: Virtuoso Travel Advisor. FSPP, Ritz STARS, Rosewood Elite, Belmond BelliniClub. SPG PRO
Posts: 2,445
Jan 19, 2011, 3:43 pm
#178
Ambassador: Japan Airlines
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: LAX
Programs: JAL Mileage Bank, JMB Diamond, oneworld Emerald, Bonvoy Platinum
Posts: 16,400
Not really. As far as they are concern, they don't care with metal you fly on. They share the profit and bare the cost. It will be metal neutral for JL/AA on the routes covered by JBV from April 1 2011.
Jan 19, 2011, 3:47 pm
#179
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: NYC/SYD
Programs: Virtuoso Travel Advisor. FSPP, Ritz STARS, Rosewood Elite, Belmond BelliniClub. SPG PRO
Posts: 2,445
If i have to pay higher fares to get the codes to get the same mileage treatment it is not metal neutral.
Jan 19, 2011, 3:50 pm
#180
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Location: LAX; AA EXP, MM; HH Gold
Posts: 31,789
"Metal neutrality" is like "low cost carrier." Neither term really refers to the passengers' perspective - they refer to the airlines' perspective.