AC imposes 'no fly' ban, demands $18K from woman after ticket scam
#151
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Vancouver
Programs: Aeroplan, Mileage Plus, WestJet Gold, AMEX Plat
Posts: 2,026
Would you not forward the fake order to the real company and say "Hey, we received this fake PO from someone claiming to be you... you might want to investigate"... If for nothing else, this would be considered a reputational risk and financial risk... Not something you'd want spreading out in the business community. They'd have a good reason to investigate and go after the perpetrator.
If they have an official account at Wechat, they can at least do SOME investigation. There would be a validated cell phone number for the account as well as IP information. If CaptainCool was lazy, the IP would lead to a cell phone provider. Also, changing cell numbers can be tedious and painful so likely not done often. If he's been around for at least a year, then it's likely they can trace the owner of the cell phone with the co-operation of Tencent and the cell provider (and possibly an ISP). It might not pinpoint the person down to a few feet (like the TV shows do), but if the captain didn't completely cover their tracks, there should be a few ways to locate this guy.
Sounds like a lot of work, but it is in the best interests of Tencent and Air Canada (or any other airline).
Sounds like a lot of work, but it is in the best interests of Tencent and Air Canada (or any other airline).
#152
Join Date: Jun 2016
Programs: air miles
Posts: 283
No one said she was disruptive. Her lawyer used it as an example of a reason for someone to be put on a no fly list i.e. disruptive/abusive to airline staff. I'm not even sure they called her a liar as she claims they did.
#153
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: YXE
Posts: 3,050
I just think its scary, even for 'average' customers who may be working for an employer on shaky financial grounds, if indeed, AC is able to use denial of future (fully-paid) service to an individual as a form of recourse against non-payment. A fly a bunch on AC for a mining company that stops paying its AC flight pass bills, and you get denied when you try to take your own family to Florida for a vacation after you're terminated sort of deal.
#154
Join Date: Jun 2016
Programs: air miles
Posts: 283
I used the example of the unlimited multi-month flight passes because they are an example of AC retail customers being able to enter into contracts with AC that involve an ongoing obligation and are not fully "pay first".
I just think its scary, even for 'average' customers who may be working for an employer on shaky financial grounds, if indeed, AC is able to use denial of future (fully-paid) service to an individual as a form of recourse against non-payment. A fly a bunch on AC for a mining company that stops paying its AC flight pass bills, and you get denied when you try to take your own family to Florida for a vacation after you're terminated sort of deal.
I just think its scary, even for 'average' customers who may be working for an employer on shaky financial grounds, if indeed, AC is able to use denial of future (fully-paid) service to an individual as a form of recourse against non-payment. A fly a bunch on AC for a mining company that stops paying its AC flight pass bills, and you get denied when you try to take your own family to Florida for a vacation after you're terminated sort of deal.
#155
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Vancouver
Programs: Aeroplan, Mileage Plus, WestJet Gold, AMEX Plat
Posts: 2,026
She paid Capt Cool money for a ticket at a negotiated price. There is a contract between the two of them.
We also don't know how this Capt Cool purchased the ticket, did he do it through a travel agency or directly on the AC website? Did the payment page ask for the name and address of the credit card owner separately from the passenger name?
Capt Cool purchased the ticket from AC at a negotiated price. There is a contract between the two of them.
She is not pretending to be an agent for Air Canada, this Captain Cool person is. If I was AC I would be more concerned about that. Given AC flies into China, they can probably follow up in that country with their local legal council or staff on the group. Belarus may be a bit more difficult.
Last edited by Fiordland; Jun 5, 2019 at 2:37 pm
#156
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Halifax
Programs: AC SE100K, Marriott Lifetime Platinum Elite. NEXUS
Posts: 4,569
We did. It is a well established manufacturer based in Canada with around 500 employees that has been around for decades. There A/P department was overwhelmed with the number of false transactions. In our case our people clued in that something was not correct with the odd wording on the PO, the weird destination, so we never shipped any thing, however it sounded like there many other companies that did.
Here money ended up in CaptainCools bank account via whatever payment process she used. There has to be a financial trail. If I was Air Canada I would be far more interested in finding and stopping Captain Cool, than this lady.
Here money ended up in CaptainCools bank account via whatever payment process she used. There has to be a financial trail. If I was Air Canada I would be far more interested in finding and stopping Captain Cool, than this lady.
I used the example of the unlimited multi-month flight passes because they are an example of AC retail customers being able to enter into contracts with AC that involve an ongoing obligation and are not fully "pay first".
I just think its scary, even for 'average' customers who may be working for an employer on shaky financial grounds, if indeed, AC is able to use denial of future (fully-paid) service to an individual as a form of recourse against non-payment. A fly a bunch on AC for a mining company that stops paying its AC flight pass bills, and you get denied when you try to take your own family to Florida for a vacation after you're terminated sort of deal.
I just think its scary, even for 'average' customers who may be working for an employer on shaky financial grounds, if indeed, AC is able to use denial of future (fully-paid) service to an individual as a form of recourse against non-payment. A fly a bunch on AC for a mining company that stops paying its AC flight pass bills, and you get denied when you try to take your own family to Florida for a vacation after you're terminated sort of deal.
But that hypothetical is just that. The details in this case are one person, a series of distinct transactions, no ongoing contractual relationship.
#157
Join Date: Sep 2016
Programs: AEROPLAN, SPG GOLD
Posts: 42
What AC believes and what is legal are different things. The arbitrator will decide what is allowed or not.
#158
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,156
How did you come to the conclusion that Captain Cooll is based in China, not Canada or a 3rd country?
#159
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,156
First, people have the same name, so 3 events joined by unreliable data in 18 months isn't quite a pattern. Only international tickets would (at the airport) need linking to some unique identifier.
Second, AC isn't spending money or resources. "going after her", they are leaving the problem up to her to deal with. They just have stopped doing business with her.
The only real problem I see is if anyone else named "Ann Qian" wants to take a domestic AC flight.
Second, AC isn't spending money or resources. "going after her", they are leaving the problem up to her to deal with. They just have stopped doing business with her.
The only real problem I see is if anyone else named "Ann Qian" wants to take a domestic AC flight.
Last edited by Clipper801; Jun 5, 2019 at 2:49 pm
#160
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Vancouver
Programs: Aeroplan, Mileage Plus, WestJet Gold, AMEX Plat
Posts: 2,026
I don't, I was replying to a comment by Stranger that suggested AC would have problems going after Captian Cool since for all we know this person could be out of China or Belarus. He could just as easily be based in China, Canada or a host of other countries. Yes, it is harder for AC to go after him in China than Canada, however given AC does business in China, they should be able to handle this quite easily if that is in fact where the person is based.
#161
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,156
I don't, I was replying to a comment by Stranger that suggested AC would have problems going after Captian Cool since for all we know this person could be out of China or Belarus. He could just as easily be based in China, Canada or a host of other countries. Yes, it is harder for AC to go after him in China than Canada, however given AC does business in China, they should be able to handle this quite easily if that is in fact where the person is based.
#162
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
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If I wanted to solicit business in the Montreal area, I could set up a 514 number in about 30 seconds.
#163
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: California
Programs: AA EXP...couple hotels and cars too
Posts: 4,548
2. You seem to say since there was no mention of a TA involved as a middle man, all the conjecture everyone is making about how online tickets work and how this event should be viewed through the prism of 'direct airline sale' is therefore accurate?
3. There is NOTHING in any of the public facing stores as to how the tickets were acquired FROM AC. Yes, how the flier got them, but not how they were obtained from the airline- one way or the other.
Just saying
#164
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: トロント
Programs: IHG Gold
Posts: 4,820
#165
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: YXE
Posts: 3,050
Although quite frankly, more mundane measures would have worked just fine here. Verifying the physical CC at check-in for example. Lots of airlines do that globally. Especially for higher-risk reservations.