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AC imposes 'no fly' ban, demands $18K from woman after ticket scam

AC imposes 'no fly' ban, demands $18K from woman after ticket scam

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Old Jun 4, 19, 6:44 am
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AC imposes 'no fly' ban, demands $18K from woman after ticket scam

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...scam-1.5158335

A woman who says she unknowingly bought fraudulently obtained airline tickets online claims she's being treated like a criminal by Air Canada.

Canada's biggest air carrier is demanding Ann Qian repay over $18,600 for return flights between Toronto, Vancouver and Shanghai and has banned her from flying its routes until she pays up.

Qian, 25, says like thousands of Canadians, she was simply buying online. And she calls Air Canada's demands "bullying."
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Old Jun 4, 19, 7:13 am
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While I think there is overreach by Air Canada here, I have no sympathy for the purchaser. "Employee discount" should have been one of the first clues that this was off market and shady. A lesson learned. Everyone should move on. AC will probably settle for nothing in the end but they have made their point and caused enough pain to get the word out. Makes them look like a bully though.
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Old Jun 4, 19, 7:28 am
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I can't imagine that AC has a leg to stand on here, but they have got the message across.
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Old Jun 4, 19, 7:35 am
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Originally Posted by tcook052 View Post
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...scam-1.5158335

Qian, 25, says like thousands of Canadians, she was simply buying online. And she calls Air Canada's demands "bullying."
No Sympathies there, it's one thing to save a few hundred bucks on ticket to Asia in Y once versus spending $9400 even after "discount" on Business class tickets several times. Her case is probably on the egregious end and Air Canada is using her as an example to others.
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Old Jun 4, 19, 7:43 am
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Originally Posted by tcook052 View Post
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...scam-1.5158335

A woman who says she unknowingly bought fraudulently obtained airline tickets online claims she's being treated like a criminal by Air Canada.

Canada's biggest air carrier is demanding Ann Qian repay over $18,600 for return flights between Toronto, Vancouver and Shanghai — and has banned her from flying its routes until she pays up.

Qian, 25, says like thousands of Canadians, she was simply buying online. And she calls Air Canada's demands "bullying."

I think the ban will stand up. They are a private business and have that right.

I don't see it much different than a store banning a suspected shoplifter or similar.

As for the excuse I was just buying on line..come on, really?
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Old Jun 4, 19, 8:09 am
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I have no idea about the Common Carrier laws and practices, but in equity, Qian has nearly no legs to stand on. Knowingly buying "Employee Discount" tickets for half face value is a complete giveaway and it is clear she was aware that there was a fraud going on, even if she wasn't the instigator of the fraud. It's equivalent to buying stolen property - if it's from the back of a truck at half price, you should know it's stolen.

Her only credible defence in equity is that AC didn't pick it up earlier - her argument that if it took AC a year to figure out there was a fraud, how should she be able to figure it out. But that argument assumes that AC is spending time examining each transaction - the fact that a fraud isn't uncovered immediately doesn't mean it's not a fraud.

Qian is lucky that this is civil rather than criminal.
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Old Jun 4, 19, 8:34 am
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No sympathy. She knew she wasn't an AC employee so she shouldn't have even considered attempting to fly on employee discount tickets....not to mention getting them through this CaptainCooll connection through WeChat.

If she or her family are wealthy enough for her to not only study abroad but also fly TPAC in business class, she/they can pay what she owes for the flights she fraudulently took.

BTW, what sort of university in Canada offers programs in how to become a pasty chef and obtains student visas for such stuff? She should be in a trade school program that lasts months rather than years, with a student visa of appropriate length for the course she is "studying."

Even if it's a civil matter, if she refuses to pay, can she be deported?
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Old Jun 4, 19, 9:02 am
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I disagree with the opinions of others on this thread.

Just because someone buys an employee discount ticket, doesn't mean they should have known that it was suspect. Maybe to her, she might believe employees are allowed to buy discount tickets for others.

I agree that she should have done her due diligence but she probably doesn't know all the in and outs of air travel like most posters on this forum. To her, she saw tickets at a good price and purchased it. We know often in these cases, it is too good to be true but if everyone was so diligent we wouldn't have all these cases of people falling for fraud and scams all the time unfortunately.

Air Canada should beef up their anti-fraud techniques rather than going after her since it took them over a year to find out.
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Old Jun 4, 19, 9:06 am
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
No sympathy. She knew she wasn't an AC employee so she shouldn't have even considered attempting to fly on employee discount tickets....not to mention getting them through this CaptainCooll connection through WeChat.

If she or her family are wealthy enough for her to not only study abroad but also fly TPAC in business class, she/they can pay what she owes for the flights she fraudulently took.

BTW, what sort of university in Canada offers programs in how to become a pasty chef and obtains student visas for such stuff? She should be in a trade school program that lasts months rather than years, with a student visa of appropriate length for the course she is "studying."

Even if it's a civil matter, if she refuses to pay, can she be deported?
I think wealth of family is irrelevant. Can't wealthy people look for good deals.

Also, she goes to college not university as per.the article. From your handle, it seems you are from the USA. In Canada, college does not mean university. It is more like junior colleges in the USA.
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Old Jun 4, 19, 9:18 am
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Originally Posted by sunzi View Post
I disagree with the opinions of others on this thread.

Just because someone buys an employee discount ticket, doesn't mean they should have known that it was suspect. Maybe to her, she might believe employees are allowed to buy discount tickets for others.

I agree that she should have done her due diligence but she probably doesn't know all the in and outs of air travel like most posters on this forum. To her, she saw tickets at a good price and purchased it. We know often in these cases, it is too good to be true but if everyone was so diligent we wouldn't have all these cases of people falling for fraud and scams all the time unfortunately.

Air Canada should beef up their anti-fraud techniques rather than going after her since it took them over a year to find out.

Not sure we have people falling "all the time" for these kind of frauds and scams. This one hits the news because it is unusual in scope and the multiple trips issue involved.
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Old Jun 4, 19, 9:24 am
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Originally Posted by sunzi View Post
I disagree with the opinions of others on this thread.

Just because someone buys an employee discount ticket, doesn't mean they should have known that it was suspect. Maybe to her, she might believe employees are allowed to buy discount tickets for others.

I agree that she should have done her due diligence but she probably doesn't know all the in and outs of air travel like most posters on this forum. To her, she saw tickets at a good price and purchased it. We know often in these cases, it is too good to be true but if everyone was so diligent we wouldn't have all these cases of people falling for fraud and scams all the time unfortunately.

Air Canada should beef up their anti-fraud techniques rather than going after her since it took them over a year to find out.
Not an unreasonable opinion BUT I think the case is more akin to unknowingly depositing a bad cheque, spending the money, the bank reversing the deposit and the depositor having to make good on the bad cheque. The bank is within its rights to do exactly that and the depositor's action is against the person issuing the bad cheque. Similar here, AC is right to claim against the person passing the bad ticket - that person then has to go after the entity that provided them that bad ticket. Might seem unfair but I do believe legally AC's action is proper - may not be good PR though; and similarly for banks, they MAY take the loss for bad cheques in certain circumstances.
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Old Jun 4, 19, 9:37 am
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Originally Posted by sunzi View Post
I disagree with the opinions of others on this thread.

Just because someone buys an employee discount ticket, doesn't mean they should have known that it was suspect. Maybe to her, she might believe employees are allowed to buy discount tickets for others.
She bought a ticket from anonymous person online as opposed to from a family or friend who is actually an employee. These scams are not uncommon at all.
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Old Jun 4, 19, 9:44 am
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Originally Posted by m.y View Post
She bought a ticket from anonymous person online as opposed to from a family or friend who is actually an employee. These scams are not uncommon at all.
Ok, I will take you word for it. I would think the attempt to scam is common, but the number of people who actually fall for it? Not sure...oh what the heck, how can I underestimate how stupid people get in pursuit of a bargain?
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Old Jun 4, 19, 9:51 am
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It seems to me that she was quite willing to participate in a fraud (employee discount) and is now upset that the fraud actually perpetuated was different.
Zero sympathy here.
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Old Jun 4, 19, 9:53 am
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Originally Posted by sunzi View Post
I disagree with the opinions of others on this thread.

Just because someone buys an employee discount ticket, doesn't mean they should have known that it was suspect. Maybe to her, she might believe employees are allowed to buy discount tickets for others.
Employee tickets are meant for employees. Surely she knew she did not qualify. Plus, if it's good to be true, it generally is. Reminds me of the Madoff scheme, surely the bulk of the victims, who by and large were not naive, believed he did so well because he was able to get away with inside trading. Typical case of someone who thought she was smarter than the system, got away with it for a while, and eventually got caught.
Air Canada should beef up their anti-fraud techniques rather than going after her since it took them over a year to find out.
Did you ever have a plane ticket fraudulently charged to your credit card? Most of the times, the charge is flagged as fraudulent after the passenger has already flown. So, not so easy to detect fraudsters. Plus, if you go back some discussions in this forum, the consensus was at least until recently that AC is overly heavy-handed with potential fraudsters. Can't have it both ways.
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