Sep 19, 2017, 10:25 am
Last edit by: 24left
Jan 18 2021 TC issues Airworthiness Directive for the 737 MAX
Link to post https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32976892-post4096.html
Cabin photos
Post 976 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29534462-post976.html
Post 1300 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29780203-post1300.html
Cabin Layout
Interior Specs can be found here https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/fly/onboard/fleet.html
- Window seats may feel narrower to come as the armrests are placed "into" the "curvature" of the cabin.
- Seats with no windows feel even more narrower as there is no space created by the curvature of window.
- All bulkhead seats have very limited legroom.
- Seats 15A, 16A, 16F, 17A and 17F have limited windows.
- Exit rows 19 and 20 have more legroom than regular preferred seats.
Routes
The 737 MAX is designated to replace the A320-series. Based on announcements and schedule updates, the following specific routes will be operated by the 737 MAX in future:
YYZ-LAX (periodic flights)
YYZ-SNN (new route)
YUL-DUB (new route)
YYZ/YUL-KEF (replacing Rouge A319)
YYT-LHR (replacing Mainline A319)
YHZ-LHR (replacing Mainline B767)
Hawaii Routes YVR/YYC (replacing Rouge B767)
Many domestic trunk routes (YYZ, YVR, YUL, YYC) now operated by 7M8, replacing A320 family
Link to post https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32976892-post4096.html
Cabin photos
Post 976 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29534462-post976.html
Post 1300 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29780203-post1300.html
Cabin Layout
Interior Specs can be found here https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/fly/onboard/fleet.html
- Window seats may feel narrower to come as the armrests are placed "into" the "curvature" of the cabin.
- Seats with no windows feel even more narrower as there is no space created by the curvature of window.
- All bulkhead seats have very limited legroom.
- Seats 15A, 16A, 16F, 17A and 17F have limited windows.
- Exit rows 19 and 20 have more legroom than regular preferred seats.
Routes
The 737 MAX is designated to replace the A320-series. Based on announcements and schedule updates, the following specific routes will be operated by the 737 MAX in future:
YYZ-LAX (periodic flights)
YYZ-SNN (new route)
YUL-DUB (new route)
YYZ/YUL-KEF (replacing Rouge A319)
YYT-LHR (replacing Mainline A319)
YHZ-LHR (replacing Mainline B767)
Hawaii Routes YVR/YYC (replacing Rouge B767)
Many domestic trunk routes (YYZ, YVR, YUL, YYC) now operated by 7M8, replacing A320 family
Air Canada Selects Boeing 737 MAX to Renew Mainline Narrowbody Fleet
Aug 31, 2019, 12:40 am
#3166
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Vancouver
Programs: Aeroplan, Mileage Plus, WestJet Gold, AMEX Plat
Posts: 2,026
Oh, a lost and lonely bird, how sad. There are others just hanging around YYC, however their tails are teal, so this guy is just a little out of place.
On a more serious note, now that it is getting closer to these guys coming back in the new year. What is going to be different with their return:
- The MAX transatlantic routes and Hawaii would start. I think that is a given.
- AC had a business rule, where they were keeping Rouge and mainline on separate routes. I don't think passengers care. They dislike Rouge regardless of it being an exclusive rouge route or not. My guess is that business rule is out the window.
- WestJet will have refurbished there MAX to all have proper business class seats during the shutdown. If I were them I would put this on the key cross country business routes YYC/YVR to YUL/YYZ. Perhaps start going head to head with AC business class.
On a more serious note, now that it is getting closer to these guys coming back in the new year. What is going to be different with their return:
- The MAX transatlantic routes and Hawaii would start. I think that is a given.
- AC had a business rule, where they were keeping Rouge and mainline on separate routes. I don't think passengers care. They dislike Rouge regardless of it being an exclusive rouge route or not. My guess is that business rule is out the window.
- WestJet will have refurbished there MAX to all have proper business class seats during the shutdown. If I were them I would put this on the key cross country business routes YYC/YVR to YUL/YYZ. Perhaps start going head to head with AC business class.
Aug 31, 2019, 9:53 am
#3167
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
I know, she looks sad. Sniff.
Aug 31, 2019, 10:47 am
#3168
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: YVR
Programs: Erstwhile Accidental AC E35K
Posts: 2,918
So looking at these photos I’m curious. Someone had to fly them to wherever they are.
Chief Pilot: “Hey, guys and gals ... these birds have been grounded for a while because they’re unsafe to fly so we need to put them into storage in the Mojave desert. I need a few volunteers to take them down there.”
Pilots: “Hey Mikey ...”. [Crickets chirping]
Chief pilot:
“Anyone?”
Then what?
Chief Pilot: “Hey, guys and gals ... these birds have been grounded for a while because they’re unsafe to fly so we need to put them into storage in the Mojave desert. I need a few volunteers to take them down there.”
Pilots: “Hey Mikey ...”. [Crickets chirping]
Chief pilot:
“Anyone?” Then what?
Aug 31, 2019, 10:53 am
#3169
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
So looking at these photos I’m curious. Someone had to fly them to wherever they are.
Chief Pilot: “Hey, guys and gals ... these birds have been grounded for a while because they’re unsafe to fly so we need to put them into storage in the Mojave desert. I need a few volunteers to take them down there.”
Pilots: “Hey Mikey ...”. [Crickets chirping]
Chief pilot: “Anyone?”
Then what?
Chief Pilot: “Hey, guys and gals ... these birds have been grounded for a while because they’re unsafe to fly so we need to put them into storage in the Mojave desert. I need a few volunteers to take them down there.”
Pilots: “Hey Mikey ...”. [Crickets chirping]
Chief pilot:
“Anyone?”Then what?
Somewhere way upthread, just after the global ban, AC MAX birds were identified as in the air and it was explained, of course, that ferry flights were allowed. Others reported some fin numbers stored at certain airports here, perhaps to enable a quick restart when allowed to fly again. But those were the 24 AC already had.
The purchased but not-yet-delivered AC MAXs are sitting in various places, some of which I found and posted recently.
Other airlines are still doing some ferry flights (saw photos of AS and WN aircraft, as well as one episode in Europe where Germany would not allow it to fly over their airspace).
I recall reading that Boeing was parking the undelivered ones in Renton, at Boeing Field, Moses Lake, San Antonio and not sure where else. Thus I assume, they are using their own pilots to fly the aircraft to storage.
As for volunteer pilot to fly them..... others here know the answer I'm sure.
Aug 31, 2019, 10:59 am
#3170
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Halifax
Programs: AC SE100K, Marriott Lifetime Platinum Elite. NEXUS
Posts: 4,570
AC's 737 pilots don't have anything else to do, so it would be, I'm sure easy enough to find someone sitting at home bored-AF willing to fly them.
And its unlikely you could find a pilot who wasn't personally confident in their ability to fly any any aircraft, at least one without PAX in it.
And its unlikely you could find a pilot who wasn't personally confident in their ability to fly any any aircraft, at least one without PAX in it.
Aug 31, 2019, 11:58 am
#3171
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: YVR
Programs: Erstwhile Accidental AC E35K
Posts: 2,918
Rookie Pilot: “You know, Honey, I’m pretty bored sitting around here with not much to do. I think I’ll volunteer to fly some of those grounded birds to California. I hear they’re not as unsafe with no passengers aboard.”
Spouse: “Okay, Sweetie, just be careful! By the way, did you pay that life insurance bill that came last week?”
Spouse: “Okay, Sweetie, just be careful! By the way, did you pay that life insurance bill that came last week?”
Sep 5, 2019, 7:35 am
#3172
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YYC
Posts: 23,808
Meanwhile, EASA goes its on way, apparently beyond the FAA requirements, and wants Boeing to show the Max is stable with the MCAS turned off... Which, as is likely if Boeing cannot do it, might be the kiss of death for the Max, and disastrous for Boeing. Especially if other certification authorities follow the ESA's lead, and the FAA reluctantly feels obliged to follow. Yet, showing stability is arguably the right thing to ask.
Sep 5, 2019, 9:01 am
#3173
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: YYC
Programs: AC 50k 1MM, Marriott LT Titanium Elite
Posts: 3,402
And as far as WS competing with them -- I am no more likely to get on a WS one if it has business class, and considerably less likely after their Chief Technical Officer (??) was on CBC last night and came off as an insincere twat that Boeing and WS had it all figured out after Indonesia and things were safe and basically ignored Ethiopia and all subsequent findings about MCAS problems.
Sep 5, 2019, 9:39 am
#3174
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
@Bohemian1 had shared this with me yesterday. Can anyone imagine AC doing this?
QUOTE:
1. ✈️ United Airlines said it will allow passengers to rebook Boeing 737 Max flights for free when the flights are returned to service. The jet was involved in two fatal crashes that killed 346 people — one in Indonesia in October and another in Ethiopia in March — and has since been grounded. At an investor conference on Wednesday, United's chief commercial officer said that passengers who arrive at a gate and discover that it's a Max flight can be placed on to another flight without having to pay a change fee. While it's currently unclear when the 737 Max will fly again, Boeing estimates a return to service “that begins early in the fourth quarter.” - CNN
And this morning, this was posted elsewhere:
.
QUOTE:
1. ✈️ United Airlines said it will allow passengers to rebook Boeing 737 Max flights for free when the flights are returned to service. The jet was involved in two fatal crashes that killed 346 people — one in Indonesia in October and another in Ethiopia in March — and has since been grounded. At an investor conference on Wednesday, United's chief commercial officer said that passengers who arrive at a gate and discover that it's a Max flight can be placed on to another flight without having to pay a change fee. While it's currently unclear when the 737 Max will fly again, Boeing estimates a return to service “that begins early in the fourth quarter.” - CNN
And this morning, this was posted elsewhere:
.
- Don’t want to fly the MAX? They’ll move you. United’s approach to passengers discovering at the airport that they’re flying on a 737 MAX, once it returns to service, is that anyone who doesn’t want to get on the plane will be put on a different flight. They anticipate customers may not realize the aircraft they’re flying in advance, but passengers will see it on departure boards at their gate.
Sep 5, 2019, 9:55 am
#3175
Join Date: Sep 2011
Programs: Aeroplan Elite for life; Fairmont Platinum; Delta Platinum Plus
Posts: 324
I was on Ethopian Airways on a Max 8 on the day of and at the gate next to the one that crashed. But for a gate change....My wife (who does not like to fly in the first place) will likely never get on a Max 8. I do not know if she is alone in this but the United announcement suggests she is not. Is the Max 8 the next DC 10? People won't want to fly on it.
Sep 5, 2019, 11:14 am
#3176
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: YVR
Programs: Bottom feeder Star Gold
Posts: 2,652
All operators will certainly face an uphill struggle once the type resumes service. I know several very knowledgeable aviation folks - many commercial & airline pilots among them - who are not at all keen on flying aboard the Max. It's not an attitude reserved for people ignorant about the industry. We all understand the risks are small, but their opinions are entirely reasonable. It's an absolute disaster for Boeing and its customers.
Sep 5, 2019, 11:33 am
#3177
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 202
I'm old enough (sadly!) to have been a kid when the DC-10's were falling out of the sky. We flew a fair bit in those days - my dad worked overseas - and I remember him trying to re-assure my mom that DC-10s were now safe when we were booked to fly on one (CP Air perhaps?). The difference today is social media which may (will?) make convincing the public that even a fixed/safe 737MAX is OK to fly on much harder than for the DC-10 in the 1970s. Of course, Boeing and the FAA having exactly been showing reassuring competence either...
Sep 5, 2019, 4:11 pm
#3178
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: LotusLand...
Programs: AC Elite50k, BAEC Blue, Amex Plat, RBC Black Tin Visa
Posts: 635
There used to be two there. They were hanging around E93 for a long time... not sure what happened to the other one.
And as far as WS competing with them -- I am no more likely to get on a WS one if it has business class, and considerably less likely after their Chief Technical Officer (??) was on CBC last night and came off as an insincere twat that Boeing and WS had it all figured out after Indonesia and things were safe and basically ignored Ethiopia and all subsequent findings about MCAS problems.
And as far as WS competing with them -- I am no more likely to get on a WS one if it has business class, and considerably less likely after their Chief Technical Officer (??) was on CBC last night and came off as an insincere twat that Boeing and WS had it all figured out after Indonesia and things were safe and basically ignored Ethiopia and all subsequent findings about MCAS problems.
Sep 5, 2019, 6:29 pm
#3179
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: YYT
Programs: M-Bonvoy Platinum Elite, Aeroplan 50K, DragonPass, AMEX MR, NEXUS
Posts: 1,715
@Bohemian1 had shared this with me yesterday. Can anyone imagine AC doing this?
QUOTE:
1. ✈️ United Airlines said it will allow passengers to rebook Boeing 737 Max flights for free when the flights are returned to service. The jet was involved in two fatal crashes that killed 346 people — one in Indonesia in October and another in Ethiopia in March — and has since been grounded. At an investor conference on Wednesday, United's chief commercial officer said that passengers who arrive at a gate and discover that it's a Max flight can be placed on to another flight without having to pay a change fee. While it's currently unclear when the 737 Max will fly again, Boeing estimates a return to service “that begins early in the fourth quarter.” - CNN
And this morning, this was posted elsewhere:
.
QUOTE:
1. ✈️ United Airlines said it will allow passengers to rebook Boeing 737 Max flights for free when the flights are returned to service. The jet was involved in two fatal crashes that killed 346 people — one in Indonesia in October and another in Ethiopia in March — and has since been grounded. At an investor conference on Wednesday, United's chief commercial officer said that passengers who arrive at a gate and discover that it's a Max flight can be placed on to another flight without having to pay a change fee. While it's currently unclear when the 737 Max will fly again, Boeing estimates a return to service “that begins early in the fourth quarter.” - CNN
And this morning, this was posted elsewhere:
.
- Don’t want to fly the MAX? They’ll move you. United’s approach to passengers discovering at the airport that they’re flying on a 737 MAX, once it returns to service, is that anyone who doesn’t want to get on the plane will be put on a different flight. They anticipate customers may not realize the aircraft they’re flying in advance, but passengers will see it on departure boards at their gate.
The MAX issues were (are) horrible, but a pilot who is a friend of mine told me that it will be the safest plane to fly on when it is returned to service.
I am not sure whether or not I agree with him, but one thing is for certain, Boeing cannot afford to lose another plane...
The company would never recover, nor would public confidence in them!
Sep 5, 2019, 7:28 pm
#3180
Join Date: Sep 2011
Programs: Aeroplan Elite for life; Fairmont Platinum; Delta Platinum Plus
Posts: 324
I don't really know what to make of this, but you would never see AC do it. @24left I think you hit the nail on the head.
The MAX issues were (are) horrible, but a pilot who is a friend of mine told me that it will be the safest plane to fly on when it is returned to service.
I am not sure whether or not I agree with him, but one thing is for certain, Boeing cannot afford to lose another plane...
The company would never recover, nor would public confidence in them!
The MAX issues were (are) horrible, but a pilot who is a friend of mine told me that it will be the safest plane to fly on when it is returned to service.
I am not sure whether or not I agree with him, but one thing is for certain, Boeing cannot afford to lose another plane...
The company would never recover, nor would public confidence in them!
When your phone is lit up because people know you are going to Africa on Ethopian on the day and the early news did not have the flight details...I am thinking twice.