Sep 19, 2017, 10:25 am
Last edit by: 24left
Jan 18 2021 TC issues Airworthiness Directive for the 737 MAX
Link to post https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32976892-post4096.html
Cabin photos
Post 976 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29534462-post976.html
Post 1300 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29780203-post1300.html
Cabin Layout
Interior Specs can be found here https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/fly/onboard/fleet.html
- Window seats may feel narrower to come as the armrests are placed "into" the "curvature" of the cabin.
- Seats with no windows feel even more narrower as there is no space created by the curvature of window.
- All bulkhead seats have very limited legroom.
- Seats 15A, 16A, 16F, 17A and 17F have limited windows.
- Exit rows 19 and 20 have more legroom than regular preferred seats.
Routes
The 737 MAX is designated to replace the A320-series. Based on announcements and schedule updates, the following specific routes will be operated by the 737 MAX in future:
YYZ-LAX (periodic flights)
YYZ-SNN (new route)
YUL-DUB (new route)
YYZ/YUL-KEF (replacing Rouge A319)
YYT-LHR (replacing Mainline A319)
YHZ-LHR (replacing Mainline B767)
Hawaii Routes YVR/YYC (replacing Rouge B767)
Many domestic trunk routes (YYZ, YVR, YUL, YYC) now operated by 7M8, replacing A320 family
Link to post https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32976892-post4096.html
Cabin photos
Post 976 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29534462-post976.html
Post 1300 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29780203-post1300.html
Cabin Layout
Interior Specs can be found here https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/fly/onboard/fleet.html
- Window seats may feel narrower to come as the armrests are placed "into" the "curvature" of the cabin.
- Seats with no windows feel even more narrower as there is no space created by the curvature of window.
- All bulkhead seats have very limited legroom.
- Seats 15A, 16A, 16F, 17A and 17F have limited windows.
- Exit rows 19 and 20 have more legroom than regular preferred seats.
Routes
The 737 MAX is designated to replace the A320-series. Based on announcements and schedule updates, the following specific routes will be operated by the 737 MAX in future:
YYZ-LAX (periodic flights)
YYZ-SNN (new route)
YUL-DUB (new route)
YYZ/YUL-KEF (replacing Rouge A319)
YYT-LHR (replacing Mainline A319)
YHZ-LHR (replacing Mainline B767)
Hawaii Routes YVR/YYC (replacing Rouge B767)
Many domestic trunk routes (YYZ, YVR, YUL, YYC) now operated by 7M8, replacing A320 family
Air Canada Selects Boeing 737 MAX to Renew Mainline Narrowbody Fleet
Aug 23, 2019, 3:40 pm
#3151
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: YVR
Programs: AC E50K, NEXUS
Posts: 645
True. Though it may be rightly argued that Boeing expected the crews to continue applying other normal procedures to maintain control of the aircraft during execution of an emergency procedure. The crew leveling off at low altitude with the throttles firewalled and the overspeed clacker sounding away may not be something that was anticipated, and perhaps rightly so, since the crew would be expected to take action to keep the aircraft below Vmo whenever they are flying.
Now I don't think the blame lies with the crew in the second crash, but I'm pointing that out to say that it was a convergence of events. The normal trim runaway emergency procedure SHOULD have worked in this case, just as it SHOULD work properly for a more 'normal' trim runaway. The fact that it didn't is due to aircraft AND crew/training AND human factors.
Now I don't think the blame lies with the crew in the second crash, but I'm pointing that out to say that it was a convergence of events. The normal trim runaway emergency procedure SHOULD have worked in this case, just as it SHOULD work properly for a more 'normal' trim runaway. The fact that it didn't is due to aircraft AND crew/training AND human factors.
Aug 23, 2019, 3:46 pm
#3152
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Halifax
Programs: AC SE100K, Marriott Lifetime Platinum Elite. NEXUS
Posts: 4,570
This topic has been beaten to death numerous times. However, since you bring it up, I will comment. There is plenty of evidence that the first aircraft was improperly serviced and should have not been in the air at all. For the second aircraft, it's not correct to say the procedure procedure for runaway trim didn't work, because the pilots did not follow it. We will never know for sure if the second crash could have been prevented.
All aircraft were designed, built, scheduled and flown by explicit human choice, all with the option of not doing that. All designs chosen, all routes chosen, all metallurgical features discoverable, all meteorological conditions possible.
Aug 23, 2019, 5:50 pm
#3153
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: YYJ
Posts: 4,137
Bit flipping (as well as fuzzing) tests are extensively performed, however humans can only anticipate so many scenarios, now that a new scenario has been identified, a specific bit flipping series of tests has been designed to address the previously unidentified scenario.
In the episode, it was in the context of voting machines, but they do a great job of explaining the phenomenon & surrounding research.
The episode is here, if anyone wants to learn more: https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/bit-flip
Aug 23, 2019, 11:46 pm
#3154
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: YVR
Programs: UA Premier Platinum
Posts: 3,759
TCCA is responsible for certification Canadian registered operators, and since this 737-8 issue has resulted in mass hysteria of the plebs, this has gone from a minor safety issue to a major political issue. As such, TCCA is being sure to appear to be in the lead for Canadian related certification activities, as various news outlets are filing FOIA requests on a regular basis.
"No fix yet" is a pretty bold assertion to make by someone not working for Boeing. Just because another useless web forum filled with misinformation - written by people who do not even know what it is they do not know - does not mean work is not actively being performed. There is a lot of being done on this issue, and Boeing is under no obligation to satisfy the idle curiosity of a few plebs that think they are more knowledgeable about a topic than they actually are.
The only people Boeing need to communicate with at this point in time are the various regulatory agencies and various operators, and quite frankly, the less that is disclosed publicly at this point, the better. There are far too many ignorant vulturous media personnel ready to print exaggerative & sensationalist drivel just to get a few more eyeballs.
"No fix yet" is a pretty bold assertion to make by someone not working for Boeing. Just because another useless web forum filled with misinformation - written by people who do not even know what it is they do not know - does not mean work is not actively being performed. There is a lot of being done on this issue, and Boeing is under no obligation to satisfy the idle curiosity of a few plebs that think they are more knowledgeable about a topic than they actually are.
The only people Boeing need to communicate with at this point in time are the various regulatory agencies and various operators, and quite frankly, the less that is disclosed publicly at this point, the better. There are far too many ignorant vulturous media personnel ready to print exaggerative & sensationalist drivel just to get a few more eyeballs.
Aug 24, 2019, 1:28 pm
#3155
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Vancouver
Programs: Aeroplan, Mileage Plus, WestJet Gold, AMEX Plat
Posts: 2,026
You've gone a long way toward convincing me that the aircraft certification process, like many other highly technical regulatory processes including those of provincial utilities commissions, federal and provincial environmental assessments and the CRTC, should in fact be a public proceeding with filings available to the public and provisions for third party interveners to comment.
Years ago I use to be involved in safety critical software in the nuclear industry. In that industry the regulator is the CNSC. The actual commission is a panel that makes the approval decision. The commission staff enforce the decisions and regulations and make approve/do-not-approve recommendations to the commission in public hearing. As the OEM or an operator you work with the commission staff to convince them to accept what you want to do, since it is a lost cause going to the commission with an application and having staff recommend the opposite.
I could see a similar process working for aviation.
Aug 27, 2019, 4:18 pm
#3156
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Canada
Programs: *G
Posts: 2,304
https://australianaviation.com.au/20...c0223e68310bb1
"About 3,000 pilots from 12 airlines have joined a class action seeking compensation for financial and other losses following the global grounding of the Boeing 737 MAX fleet after two fatal accidents in Indonesia and Ethiopia.
Brisbane-based air and space law firm International Aerospace Law & Policy Group (IALPG) and Chicago-based PMJ PLLC filed the initial action in May on behalf of Pilot X, a Canadian citizen at a major international airline who chose to remain anonymous to safeguard against any “reprisal from Boeing or its customers”.
"About 3,000 pilots from 12 airlines have joined a class action seeking compensation for financial and other losses following the global grounding of the Boeing 737 MAX fleet after two fatal accidents in Indonesia and Ethiopia.
Brisbane-based air and space law firm International Aerospace Law & Policy Group (IALPG) and Chicago-based PMJ PLLC filed the initial action in May on behalf of Pilot X, a Canadian citizen at a major international airline who chose to remain anonymous to safeguard against any “reprisal from Boeing or its customers”.
Aug 29, 2019, 5:47 pm
#3157
Join Date: May 2004
Location: yyz
Programs: AC*SE 1MM. a bunch of hotel programs.
Posts: 1,592
I flew YYZ-RDU a couple of weeks ago. This was supposed to be converted to a 2 class Embraer E75 but it still has the awful CRJ's . Was this caused by the 737 Max issue ? the FA told me AC is short 'thousands' of seats and thats why they're still using the old planes.
on the plus side, there is a nice United lounge in RDU now with a great bar and reasonable food.
on the plus side, there is a nice United lounge in RDU now with a great bar and reasonable food.
Aug 29, 2019, 6:16 pm
#3158
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Halifax
Programs: AC SE100K, Marriott Lifetime Platinum Elite. NEXUS
Posts: 4,570
RDU has actually had extra service announced (if not delivered) since the MAX groundings. I still find it an awkward schedule, but someone needs a 3pm flight, I guess.
The UA lounge is... A UA lounge. Awesome only when compared to not having a lounge.
Visiting the mother tower got less horrible when that happened last month.
The UA lounge is... A UA lounge. Awesome only when compared to not having a lounge.
Visiting the mother tower got less horrible when that happened last month.
Aug 30, 2019, 5:55 pm
#3159
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
Further to my post from August 8, where I wondered "Where in the World AC MAX's Are". 
parked - at least the yet to be delivered ones.....
I had included photos of the ones I found as well as some fleet data info.
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/31394583-post3078.html
I just found another 1 and possibly 2 down in SAT.
Tweet source:
In his photo, we can clearly see one AC fin on the right, 3rd from the front view.
On the left, the 4th bird from the front view could be another one. Those with better screens or eyes may be able to say.
parked - at least the yet to be delivered ones.....I had included photos of the ones I found as well as some fleet data info.
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/31394583-post3078.html
I just found another 1 and possibly 2 down in SAT.
Tweet source:
In his photo, we can clearly see one AC fin on the right, 3rd from the front view.
On the left, the 4th bird from the front view could be another one. Those with better screens or eyes may be able to say.
Aug 30, 2019, 7:20 pm
#3161
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
Is that 3 AC birds I see?
Two were parked there for a while, but I see a new one at the lower right.
Livery really stands out among the flock.
Getting a little crowded over there in employee parking.
Two were parked there for a while, but I see a new one at the lower right.
Livery really stands out among the flock.
Getting a little crowded over there in employee parking.
Aug 30, 2019, 9:27 pm
#3163
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
FAA panel reviewing 737 MAX certification will take additional time
Reuters - AUGUST 30, 2019
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-e...-idUSKCN1VK2B4
QUOTES:
"Boeing Co. has said it hopes to receive regulatory approval for updated flight control software at the center of both crashes in October, but it could take a month or two for airlines to train pilots on the new software and prepare the jets for commercial flight after sitting idle for months."
.....
'Deputy FAA Administrator Dan Elwell told Congress in March the agency would have to spend $1.8 billion and hire 10,000 new employees to handle all aircraft certification internally.
Michael Perrone, who heads the Professional Aviation Safety Specialists union, said at a House hearing in July that external entities designated by the FAA “are now performing more than 90 percent of FAA’s certification activities despite serious concerns that oversight is lacking.”
He added this “creates a concerning dynamic whereby designees who are paid by the aircraft manufacturers, airlines, or repair stations are simultaneously overseeing for the FAA.”
Reuters - AUGUST 30, 2019
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-e...-idUSKCN1VK2B4
QUOTES:
"Boeing Co. has said it hopes to receive regulatory approval for updated flight control software at the center of both crashes in October, but it could take a month or two for airlines to train pilots on the new software and prepare the jets for commercial flight after sitting idle for months."
.....
'Deputy FAA Administrator Dan Elwell told Congress in March the agency would have to spend $1.8 billion and hire 10,000 new employees to handle all aircraft certification internally.
Michael Perrone, who heads the Professional Aviation Safety Specialists union, said at a House hearing in July that external entities designated by the FAA “are now performing more than 90 percent of FAA’s certification activities despite serious concerns that oversight is lacking.”
He added this “creates a concerning dynamic whereby designees who are paid by the aircraft manufacturers, airlines, or repair stations are simultaneously overseeing for the FAA.”
Aug 30, 2019, 9:41 pm
#3164
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: YYZ
Programs: TK *G
Posts: 3,099
This is becoming Find The Waldo now. I spent a minute identifying each airline. Perhaps after a few months we need to count how many AC aircrafts are in the picture.
Aug 30, 2019, 9:55 pm
#3165
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
Right.
My 2 posts above with the photos are a continuation of my adventure from a couple of weeks ago in this post, where Is used creative license with Waldo and said "Where in the World AC MAX's Are.
"https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/31394583-post3078.html