Sep 19, 2017, 10:25 am
Last edit by: 24left
Jan 18 2021 TC issues Airworthiness Directive for the 737 MAX
Link to post https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32976892-post4096.html
Cabin photos
Post 976 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29534462-post976.html
Post 1300 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29780203-post1300.html
Cabin Layout
Interior Specs can be found here https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/fly/onboard/fleet.html
- Window seats may feel narrower to come as the armrests are placed "into" the "curvature" of the cabin.
- Seats with no windows feel even more narrower as there is no space created by the curvature of window.
- All bulkhead seats have very limited legroom.
- Seats 15A, 16A, 16F, 17A and 17F have limited windows.
- Exit rows 19 and 20 have more legroom than regular preferred seats.
Routes
The 737 MAX is designated to replace the A320-series. Based on announcements and schedule updates, the following specific routes will be operated by the 737 MAX in future:
YYZ-LAX (periodic flights)
YYZ-SNN (new route)
YUL-DUB (new route)
YYZ/YUL-KEF (replacing Rouge A319)
YYT-LHR (replacing Mainline A319)
YHZ-LHR (replacing Mainline B767)
Hawaii Routes YVR/YYC (replacing Rouge B767)
Many domestic trunk routes (YYZ, YVR, YUL, YYC) now operated by 7M8, replacing A320 family
Link to post https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32976892-post4096.html
Cabin photos
Post 976 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29534462-post976.html
Post 1300 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29780203-post1300.html
Cabin Layout
Interior Specs can be found here https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/fly/onboard/fleet.html
- Window seats may feel narrower to come as the armrests are placed "into" the "curvature" of the cabin.
- Seats with no windows feel even more narrower as there is no space created by the curvature of window.
- All bulkhead seats have very limited legroom.
- Seats 15A, 16A, 16F, 17A and 17F have limited windows.
- Exit rows 19 and 20 have more legroom than regular preferred seats.
Routes
The 737 MAX is designated to replace the A320-series. Based on announcements and schedule updates, the following specific routes will be operated by the 737 MAX in future:
YYZ-LAX (periodic flights)
YYZ-SNN (new route)
YUL-DUB (new route)
YYZ/YUL-KEF (replacing Rouge A319)
YYT-LHR (replacing Mainline A319)
YHZ-LHR (replacing Mainline B767)
Hawaii Routes YVR/YYC (replacing Rouge B767)
Many domestic trunk routes (YYZ, YVR, YUL, YYC) now operated by 7M8, replacing A320 family
Air Canada Selects Boeing 737 MAX to Renew Mainline Narrowbody Fleet
Jul 30, 2019, 6:54 pm
#3016
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Jul 30, 2019, 6:59 pm
#3017
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This was posted upthread at 11:31 this morning.
I see AC has removed the Max from its schedule until January in this release so did anyone predict the aircraft would be grounded this long? I'll admit I didn't think it would be parked for more than 6 months but the near term prognosis isn't looking good and a early 2020 reinstatement is looking only a possibility at this point.
Jul 30, 2019, 7:26 pm
#3018
Join Date: Jan 2017
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I think it's possible that the FAA and EASA are publically exposing 'new' solvable findings---rudder, computer, etc in order to take attention away from the tougher aerodynamic design flaw of the MAX engine size.
Sometime in 2020: "See, members of the media and public, all these things we found as a team and changed before allowing it back in the sky"
Sometime in 2020: "See, members of the media and public, all these things we found as a team and changed before allowing it back in the sky"
Personally, I won't trust the FAA, or TC, for that matter.
Jul 30, 2019, 11:24 pm
#3019
Join Date: May 2012
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For reference sake; Financial Post quotes AC CFO Rousseau;
"...it will take up to a year from the time the decision is made to reintegrate them into our fleet after the ungrounding for all 50 planes to fly,” Rousseau said.
I interpret this to mean that it is likely that the aircraft won't be fully integrated into the AC fleet until 2021. A best case scenario would see the aircraft make a return in 2020, with training and hiring needs only allowing a partial reintroduction during 2020.
Earlier this month, Boeing said it would take a US$4.9 billion charge to cover possible compensation to airlines over the grounding of the 737 MAX plane.
Seems a tad optimistic to me.
"...it will take up to a year from the time the decision is made to reintegrate them into our fleet after the ungrounding for all 50 planes to fly,” Rousseau said.
I interpret this to mean that it is likely that the aircraft won't be fully integrated into the AC fleet until 2021. A best case scenario would see the aircraft make a return in 2020, with training and hiring needs only allowing a partial reintroduction during 2020.
Earlier this month, Boeing said it would take a US$4.9 billion charge to cover possible compensation to airlines over the grounding of the 737 MAX plane.
Seems a tad optimistic to me.
Jul 31, 2019, 5:56 am
#3020
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Join Date: May 2002
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Posts: 56,450
For reference sake; Financial Post quotes AC CFO Rousseau;
"...it will take up to a year from the time the decision is made to reintegrate them into our fleet after the ungrounding for all 50 planes to fly,” Rousseau said.
I interpret this to mean that it is likely that the aircraft won't be fully integrated into the AC fleet until 2021. A best case scenario would see the aircraft make a return in 2020, with training and hiring needs only allowing a partial reintroduction during 2020.
"...it will take up to a year from the time the decision is made to reintegrate them into our fleet after the ungrounding for all 50 planes to fly,” Rousseau said.
I interpret this to mean that it is likely that the aircraft won't be fully integrated into the AC fleet until 2021. A best case scenario would see the aircraft make a return in 2020, with training and hiring needs only allowing a partial reintroduction during 2020.
The two-dozen Max 8s now in Air Canada's fleet could return to service within two to three months of airspace bans being lifted, he added.
Jul 31, 2019, 6:16 am
#3021
Join Date: Apr 2011
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Posts: 971
For reference sake; Financial Post quotes AC CFO Rousseau;
"...it will take up to a year from the time the decision is made to reintegrate them into our fleet after the ungrounding for all 50 planes to fly,” Rousseau said.
I interpret this to mean that it is likely that the aircraft won't be fully integrated into the AC fleet until 2021. A best case scenario would see the aircraft make a return in 2020, with training and hiring needs only allowing a partial reintroduction during 2020.
Earlier this month, Boeing said it would take a US$4.9 billion charge to cover possible compensation to airlines over the grounding of the 737 MAX plane.
Seems a tad optimistic to me.
"...it will take up to a year from the time the decision is made to reintegrate them into our fleet after the ungrounding for all 50 planes to fly,” Rousseau said.
I interpret this to mean that it is likely that the aircraft won't be fully integrated into the AC fleet until 2021. A best case scenario would see the aircraft make a return in 2020, with training and hiring needs only allowing a partial reintroduction during 2020.
Earlier this month, Boeing said it would take a US$4.9 billion charge to cover possible compensation to airlines over the grounding of the 737 MAX plane.
Seems a tad optimistic to me.
"Boeing last week revealed a US$5.6 billion pretax charge to compensate airlines and lessors, outlining for the first time costs that could linger for years in the form of discounts on future jet orders, spare parts and services."
Bad situation for AC, as it will have an unwanted impact on AC's future aircraft purchase decisions.
https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/boeing-b...ount-1.1291631
Last edited by WildcatYXU; Jul 31, 2019 at 6:28 am
Jul 31, 2019, 6:57 am
#3022
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Halifax
Programs: AC SE100K, Marriott Lifetime Platinum Elite. NEXUS
Posts: 4,570
For reference sake; Financial Post quotes AC CFO Rousseau;
"...it will take up to a year from the time the decision is made to reintegrate them into our fleet after the ungrounding for all 50 planes to fly,” Rousseau said.
I interpret this to mean that it is likely that the aircraft won't be fully integrated into the AC fleet until 2021. A best case scenario would see the aircraft make a return in 2020, with training and hiring needs only allowing a partial reintroduction during 2020.
Earlier this month, Boeing said it would take a US$4.9 billion charge to cover possible compensation to airlines over the grounding of the 737 MAX plane.
Seems a tad optimistic to me.
"...it will take up to a year from the time the decision is made to reintegrate them into our fleet after the ungrounding for all 50 planes to fly,” Rousseau said.
I interpret this to mean that it is likely that the aircraft won't be fully integrated into the AC fleet until 2021. A best case scenario would see the aircraft make a return in 2020, with training and hiring needs only allowing a partial reintroduction during 2020.
Earlier this month, Boeing said it would take a US$4.9 billion charge to cover possible compensation to airlines over the grounding of the 737 MAX plane.
Seems a tad optimistic to me.
In this CBC article Rousseau says
The two-dozen Max 8s now in Air Canada's fleet could return to service within two to three months of airspace bans being lifted, he added.
The two-dozen Max 8s now in Air Canada's fleet could return to service within two to three months of airspace bans being lifted, he added.
Unpickling the own aircraft will take >0 time, as will unpickling the yet-to-be-accepted aircraft. There is also the final tweaking to be done before A/C are put into AC service... How many future-AC birds are parked at Boeing plants? Can the WiFi shop handle 10 birds at once?
They do have the WOW, Transat and other orphans in service now.... Will AC sell their manufacturing slots to others, able to keep limping along? Or buy slots from others, with a bunch of expensive leased birds, plus the 30 year old a320s and uneconomical e190s redlined for the desert?
If they know, they aren't saying.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Jul 31, 2019, 7:05 am
#3023
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Who's said 2 years? Rousseau says it'll take months to restart service with the current crop of Max's in the AC fleet and as much as one year for full service for all 50 Max's including the 26 undelivered aircraft.
Jul 31, 2019, 8:43 am
#3024
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Halifax
Programs: AC SE100K, Marriott Lifetime Platinum Elite. NEXUS
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Jul 31, 2019, 8:56 am
#3025
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: YEG
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Posts: 56,450
Seen & noted:
https://www.thewesternstar.com/busin...uarter-338642/
Once recertified, it will take Air Canada two to three months to return its 24 planes to the sky. The delivery schedule for the remaining jets is unclear – on top of the dozen it was supposed to receive in July, and 14 more in the first half of 2020 – but Air Canada expects it to take up to a year to get all 50 planes operational since it needs to hire an additional 400 pilots and flight crews.
The groundings have been “extremely frustrating” to manage in the short-term, chief financial officer Michael Rousseau said on the call, adding Air Canada never encountered any issues with the Max fleet before the crashes.
“Ideally, we are still looking forward to the return to service,” Rousseau said.
Air Canada will continue to support Boeing despite the issues with the Max fleet, the executives said. It has a strong relationship with both Boeing and Airbus, Rovinescu said, adding it has a “fairly good split” and will continue to support both.
https://www.thewesternstar.com/busin...uarter-338642/
Once recertified, it will take Air Canada two to three months to return its 24 planes to the sky. The delivery schedule for the remaining jets is unclear – on top of the dozen it was supposed to receive in July, and 14 more in the first half of 2020 – but Air Canada expects it to take up to a year to get all 50 planes operational since it needs to hire an additional 400 pilots and flight crews.
The groundings have been “extremely frustrating” to manage in the short-term, chief financial officer Michael Rousseau said on the call, adding Air Canada never encountered any issues with the Max fleet before the crashes.
“Ideally, we are still looking forward to the return to service,” Rousseau said.
Air Canada will continue to support Boeing despite the issues with the Max fleet, the executives said. It has a strong relationship with both Boeing and Airbus, Rovinescu said, adding it has a “fairly good split” and will continue to support both.
Jul 31, 2019, 9:00 am
#3026
Join Date: Jan 2017
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Also, we haven't, and no one else seems to acknowledge, what will happen if there are major overhauls to be done.
If it is indeed software only, that is flashing something or replacing an eprom or whatever. 10 more minutes in the generic process of depickleing.
But if there are hardware changes? With parts that don't yet exist?
If it is indeed software only, that is flashing something or replacing an eprom or whatever. 10 more minutes in the generic process of depickleing.
But if there are hardware changes? With parts that don't yet exist?
Jul 31, 2019, 9:12 am
#3027
Join Date: Apr 2011
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Also, we haven't, and no one else seems to acknowledge, what will happen if there are major overhauls to be done.
If it is indeed software only, that is flashing something or replacing an eprom or whatever. 10 more minutes in the generic process of depickleing.
But if there are hardware changes? With parts that don't yet exist?
If it is indeed software only, that is flashing something or replacing an eprom or whatever. 10 more minutes in the generic process of depickleing.
But if there are hardware changes? With parts that don't yet exist?
Jul 31, 2019, 11:30 am
#3028
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There are a variety of sources and opinions on how long until the MAX is back in service once Boeing etc do whatever needs to be done and the regulators in various countries approve. AC might provide some clues in the news releases or investor reports, mainstream media can as well. The Seattle Times, NYTimes and WSJ are among the best even if behind paywalls. General media catering to the average viewer reader can barely explain the issues, let alone communicate them effectively or accurately.
For those interested in other types of details, there are a variety of aviation sources which we know from links posted and of course there are various pilot forums. Plus, if we're lucky, an AC pilot or employee who can post here might add insight.
I am not the only one who reads other sources. That said, along with PPRuNe, I've followed some threads on the AC sub-forum of the AV Canada pilot forum. There was discussion in at least 2 threads about the effect the grounding has had on some pilots, the pay issues and so on.
There is also this short thread, started on March 25, with the subject line "When do you think the 737 MAX will return to operation at Air Canada?"
At the top is a graph chart of the answers based on the month predicted. Since many posted their answers early one, it skews to restart of the MAX sooner.
However, more interesting are comments in the thread. Since recent posts here asked about aircraft and restart of MAX flying etc, I'm including 3 quotes (screen shots since I can't link - you need to be logged in to quote).
Thread is at When do you think the 737 MAX will return to operation at Air Canada? -
(Clearly in April there was still some optimism)
For those interested in other types of details, there are a variety of aviation sources which we know from links posted and of course there are various pilot forums. Plus, if we're lucky, an AC pilot or employee who can post here might add insight.
I am not the only one who reads other sources. That said, along with PPRuNe, I've followed some threads on the AC sub-forum of the AV Canada pilot forum. There was discussion in at least 2 threads about the effect the grounding has had on some pilots, the pay issues and so on.
There is also this short thread, started on March 25, with the subject line "When do you think the 737 MAX will return to operation at Air Canada?"
At the top is a graph chart of the answers based on the month predicted. Since many posted their answers early one, it skews to restart of the MAX sooner.
However, more interesting are comments in the thread. Since recent posts here asked about aircraft and restart of MAX flying etc, I'm including 3 quotes (screen shots since I can't link - you need to be logged in to quote).
Thread is at When do you think the 737 MAX will return to operation at Air Canada? -
(Clearly in April there was still some optimism)
Jul 31, 2019, 12:03 pm
#3029
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So Boeing's compensation to AC for the MAX snafu will come in the form of a credit against future spending on planes, parts, and services.
Does anybody else think that a 15% discount would be a karmically appropriate level of compensation?
Does anybody else think that a 15% discount would be a karmically appropriate level of compensation?
Jul 31, 2019, 12:11 pm
#3030
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15% off just the base price, of course. Extras such as the interiors, paint jobs, and taxes, are not discounted. Also, AC only has 1 year to use the discount code, and it can only be used for planes that are bought online.