Sep 19, 2017, 10:25 am
Last edit by: 24left
Jan 18 2021 TC issues Airworthiness Directive for the 737 MAX
Link to post https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32976892-post4096.html
Cabin photos
Post 976 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29534462-post976.html
Post 1300 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29780203-post1300.html
Cabin Layout
Interior Specs can be found here https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/fly/onboard/fleet.html
- Window seats may feel narrower to come as the armrests are placed "into" the "curvature" of the cabin.
- Seats with no windows feel even more narrower as there is no space created by the curvature of window.
- All bulkhead seats have very limited legroom.
- Seats 15A, 16A, 16F, 17A and 17F have limited windows.
- Exit rows 19 and 20 have more legroom than regular preferred seats.
Routes
The 737 MAX is designated to replace the A320-series. Based on announcements and schedule updates, the following specific routes will be operated by the 737 MAX in future:
YYZ-LAX (periodic flights)
YYZ-SNN (new route)
YUL-DUB (new route)
YYZ/YUL-KEF (replacing Rouge A319)
YYT-LHR (replacing Mainline A319)
YHZ-LHR (replacing Mainline B767)
Hawaii Routes YVR/YYC (replacing Rouge B767)
Many domestic trunk routes (YYZ, YVR, YUL, YYC) now operated by 7M8, replacing A320 family
Link to post https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32976892-post4096.html
Cabin photos
Post 976 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29534462-post976.html
Post 1300 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29780203-post1300.html
Cabin Layout
Interior Specs can be found here https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/fly/onboard/fleet.html
- Window seats may feel narrower to come as the armrests are placed "into" the "curvature" of the cabin.
- Seats with no windows feel even more narrower as there is no space created by the curvature of window.
- All bulkhead seats have very limited legroom.
- Seats 15A, 16A, 16F, 17A and 17F have limited windows.
- Exit rows 19 and 20 have more legroom than regular preferred seats.
Routes
The 737 MAX is designated to replace the A320-series. Based on announcements and schedule updates, the following specific routes will be operated by the 737 MAX in future:
YYZ-LAX (periodic flights)
YYZ-SNN (new route)
YUL-DUB (new route)
YYZ/YUL-KEF (replacing Rouge A319)
YYT-LHR (replacing Mainline A319)
YHZ-LHR (replacing Mainline B767)
Hawaii Routes YVR/YYC (replacing Rouge B767)
Many domestic trunk routes (YYZ, YVR, YUL, YYC) now operated by 7M8, replacing A320 family
Air Canada Selects Boeing 737 MAX to Renew Mainline Narrowbody Fleet
Jul 3, 2019, 12:40 pm
#2956
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In the other thread Boeing falsified records on 1 AC B787 -
@canopus27 wrote:
Indeed.
That said......I just saw this Boeing release.
I am posting this here as AC bought these aircraft and if Dennis Muilenburg is apologizing to customers, it would seem to include AC, all other airlines and all who fly these aircraft. You can correct me if I have misinterpreted. I also assume Boeing legal approved every word and whether it relates to an admission of liability, or not.
Boeing Pledges Support to Families, Communities Affected by Lion Air Flight 610 and Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 Accidents
"CHICAGO, July 3, 2019 /PRNewswire/ -- Ahead of Independence Day in the U.S., Boeing [NYSE: BA] announced $100 million in funds to address family and community needs of those affected by the tragic accidents of Lion Air Flight 610 and Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302. These funds will support education, hardship and living expenses for impacted families, community programs, and economic development in impacted communities. Boeing will partner with local governments and non-profit organizations to address these needs. This initial investment will be made over multiple years.
"We at Boeing are sorry for the tragic loss of lives in both of these accidents and these lives lost will continue to weigh heavily on our hearts and on our minds for years to come. The families and loved ones of those on board have our deepest sympathies, and we hope this initial outreach can help bring them comfort," said Dennis Muilenburg, Boeing chairman, president and CEO.
"We know every person who steps aboard one of our airplanes places their trust in us. We are focused on re-earning that trust and confidence from our customers and the flying public in the months ahead."
Boeing will release additional information in the near future.
Consistent with Boeing's regular process for employee charitable donations, company employees will also have the opportunity to make donations in support of the families and communities impacted by the accidents. Boeing will match these employee donations through December 31, 2019."
https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2019-07...-302-Accidents
Note - I included the entire press release as I think it is relevant here. Mods can edit/move/delete.
@canopus27 wrote:
.......
I'm not asserting that the CEO is the only one who's culpable ... in fact I'd be surprised if the CEO was even aware that the engineers had ended up developing a MCAS system at all, let alone being cognisant of it's implementation details.
However I do hold the CEO accountable for creating the corporate culture that allowed this to occur. You're correct that it's not trivial to lead a large organization - but in many ways, the corporate culture is the only thing that the CEO can personally direct. To claim otherwise - to say that the way a CEO should only be held accountable, if (s)he personally ordered a coverup - I believe that attitude may be at the root of the problems in a lot of large companies.
Sarbanes Oxley holds CEOs personally accountable for their company's financial reporting ... and I have personally seen the impact down through the ranks that making that assertion has on an organization. In other words, CEOs can be held accountable, and doing so does change behavior.
If the MAX investigation (which, we agree, needs to play out completely) uncovers that a significant part of the problem was that the corporate culture led the minions (up to and including SVPs) to take shortcuts, then holding the CEO personally liable and accountable for that culture may be the only way to fix Boeing.
Yes, it's a tough gig. But if you can't drive the corporate culture at a company, then you shouldn't accept the multi-million paycheck that comes with the job. Those bucks stop somewhere.
I'm not asserting that the CEO is the only one who's culpable ... in fact I'd be surprised if the CEO was even aware that the engineers had ended up developing a MCAS system at all, let alone being cognisant of it's implementation details.
However I do hold the CEO accountable for creating the corporate culture that allowed this to occur. You're correct that it's not trivial to lead a large organization - but in many ways, the corporate culture is the only thing that the CEO can personally direct. To claim otherwise - to say that the way a CEO should only be held accountable, if (s)he personally ordered a coverup - I believe that attitude may be at the root of the problems in a lot of large companies.
Sarbanes Oxley holds CEOs personally accountable for their company's financial reporting ... and I have personally seen the impact down through the ranks that making that assertion has on an organization. In other words, CEOs can be held accountable, and doing so does change behavior.
If the MAX investigation (which, we agree, needs to play out completely) uncovers that a significant part of the problem was that the corporate culture led the minions (up to and including SVPs) to take shortcuts, then holding the CEO personally liable and accountable for that culture may be the only way to fix Boeing.
Yes, it's a tough gig. But if you can't drive the corporate culture at a company, then you shouldn't accept the multi-million paycheck that comes with the job. Those bucks stop somewhere.
That said......I just saw this Boeing release.
I am posting this here as AC bought these aircraft and if Dennis Muilenburg is apologizing to customers, it would seem to include AC, all other airlines and all who fly these aircraft. You can correct me if I have misinterpreted. I also assume Boeing legal approved every word and whether it relates to an admission of liability, or not.
Boeing Pledges Support to Families, Communities Affected by Lion Air Flight 610 and Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 Accidents
"CHICAGO, July 3, 2019 /PRNewswire/ -- Ahead of Independence Day in the U.S., Boeing [NYSE: BA] announced $100 million in funds to address family and community needs of those affected by the tragic accidents of Lion Air Flight 610 and Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302. These funds will support education, hardship and living expenses for impacted families, community programs, and economic development in impacted communities. Boeing will partner with local governments and non-profit organizations to address these needs. This initial investment will be made over multiple years.
"We at Boeing are sorry for the tragic loss of lives in both of these accidents and these lives lost will continue to weigh heavily on our hearts and on our minds for years to come. The families and loved ones of those on board have our deepest sympathies, and we hope this initial outreach can help bring them comfort," said Dennis Muilenburg, Boeing chairman, president and CEO.
"We know every person who steps aboard one of our airplanes places their trust in us. We are focused on re-earning that trust and confidence from our customers and the flying public in the months ahead."
Boeing will release additional information in the near future.
Consistent with Boeing's regular process for employee charitable donations, company employees will also have the opportunity to make donations in support of the families and communities impacted by the accidents. Boeing will match these employee donations through December 31, 2019."
https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2019-07...-302-Accidents
Note - I included the entire press release as I think it is relevant here. Mods can edit/move/delete.
Jul 5, 2019, 9:00 am
#2957
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Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
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Further to some comments posted upthread
Bjorn’s Corner: Cutting corners in aerospace costs a fortune
July 05, 2019, Leeham News
https://leehamnews.com/2019/07/05/bj...sts-a-fortune/
QUOTES:
"It seems more and more likely the 737 MAX grounding will go well beyond six months and it can approach nine months to a year depending on developments in the next months.
The costs to Boeing for the MAX debacle are now approaching the costs of a new aircraft development.
The development of a new civil airliner requires somewhere between 50,000 and 100,000 work years. The total development cost lands below or above $10bn depending on the size of aircraft and its capabilities.
This is a lot of work years and a lot of money but the 737 MAX crisis shows there are no possibilities to avoid this magnitude of effort. There are no shortcuts possible in this business. The tiniest oversight or shortcut and it has have major consequences.
The MCAS software fix for the 737 MAX pitch instability was such a shortcut. An aerodynamic solution to the problem could have been made but a software fix was easier and cheaper to implement.
.....
"The end result of the management culture which produced this engineering shortcut is horrendous:
It all shows how high the stakes are in civil aviation and that commercial pressures can never be allowed to rule engineering decisions. If they do they jeopardize flight safety and with it, the flying public’s lives.
It also jeopardizes the company in itself. The MAX debacle was caused by a will to keep development time and costs low. Yet it will end up costing Boeing a good part of what a new aircraft family would have costed. And this is before estimating the Brand image costs."
Bjorn’s Corner: Cutting corners in aerospace costs a fortune
July 05, 2019, Leeham News
https://leehamnews.com/2019/07/05/bj...sts-a-fortune/
QUOTES:
"It seems more and more likely the 737 MAX grounding will go well beyond six months and it can approach nine months to a year depending on developments in the next months.
The costs to Boeing for the MAX debacle are now approaching the costs of a new aircraft development.
The development of a new civil airliner requires somewhere between 50,000 and 100,000 work years. The total development cost lands below or above $10bn depending on the size of aircraft and its capabilities.
This is a lot of work years and a lot of money but the 737 MAX crisis shows there are no possibilities to avoid this magnitude of effort. There are no shortcuts possible in this business. The tiniest oversight or shortcut and it has have major consequences.
The MCAS software fix for the 737 MAX pitch instability was such a shortcut. An aerodynamic solution to the problem could have been made but a software fix was easier and cheaper to implement.
.....
"The end result of the management culture which produced this engineering shortcut is horrendous:
- Two aircraft and 346 lives lost.
- Boeing in eight months transformed from an admired civil aviation leader to a distrusted brand, subject to several criminal investigations.
- The economic losses are not yet clear but they will approach the costs of a new aircraft development.
It all shows how high the stakes are in civil aviation and that commercial pressures can never be allowed to rule engineering decisions. If they do they jeopardize flight safety and with it, the flying public’s lives.
It also jeopardizes the company in itself. The MAX debacle was caused by a will to keep development time and costs low. Yet it will end up costing Boeing a good part of what a new aircraft family would have costed. And this is before estimating the Brand image costs."
Jul 5, 2019, 2:04 pm
#2958
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: YVR
Programs: Bottom feeder Star Gold
Posts: 2,652
That Boeing pledge is not primarily designed as a measure of outreach or community development, it's a designed manoeuvre to mitigate legal and loss-of-business ramifications of their bringing to market an unsafe airplane. I would like to believe this is a spontaneous and genuine gesture of compassion and outreach, however the inner cynic can recognize a legally-crafted component of a desperate corporate survival strategy.
Jul 5, 2019, 3:30 pm
#2959
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC*SE 2MM
Posts: 16,655
That said......I just saw this Boeing release.
I am posting this here as AC bought these aircraft and if Dennis Muilenburg is apologizing to customers, it would seem to include AC, all other airlines and all who fly these aircraft. You can correct me if I have misinterpreted. I also assume Boeing legal approved every word and whether it relates to an admission of liability, or not.
Boeing Pledges Support to Families, Communities Affected by Lion Air Flight 610 and Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 Accidents
https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2019-07...-302-Accidents
I am posting this here as AC bought these aircraft and if Dennis Muilenburg is apologizing to customers, it would seem to include AC, all other airlines and all who fly these aircraft. You can correct me if I have misinterpreted. I also assume Boeing legal approved every word and whether it relates to an admission of liability, or not.
Boeing Pledges Support to Families, Communities Affected by Lion Air Flight 610 and Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 Accidents
https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2019-07...-302-Accidents
...and I definitely am not reading an apology to those indirectly impacted by the groundings into any of this - I do see an acknowledgement that confidence in Boeing has eroded and they need to fix that.
Jul 6, 2019, 6:06 pm
#2960
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Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-can-fly-again
Stock photo with AC bird in a starring role.
QUOTES:
"(EASA) also listed a previously unreported concern: the autopilot failing to disengage in certain emergencies."
.....
"Both the FAA and EASA along with Canada and Brazil, have meanwhile come together in tentative agreement that the return to service should be closely coordinated in an effort to help restore public trust in the global aviation safety system, people familiar with the matter have said, though they cautioned that EASA may still make additional requests and lag behind the FAA."
Stock photo with AC bird in a starring role.
QUOTES:
"(EASA) also listed a previously unreported concern: the autopilot failing to disengage in certain emergencies."
.....
"Both the FAA and EASA along with Canada and Brazil, have meanwhile come together in tentative agreement that the return to service should be closely coordinated in an effort to help restore public trust in the global aviation safety system, people familiar with the matter have said, though they cautioned that EASA may still make additional requests and lag behind the FAA."
Jul 11, 2019, 5:04 pm
#2961
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YYC
Posts: 23,808
Meanwhile the head of the Max program is retiring. Mind you, he likely took the job way after the crucial decisions that led to the mess where taken.
Jul 14, 2019, 9:43 am
#2962
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Mississauga Ontario
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Jul 14, 2019, 10:27 am
#2963
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Location: YYC
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I can't read the full article, but it first says, could stretch into 2020. Which most folks now seem to expect at this point anyway.
Jul 16, 2019, 7:44 pm
#2964
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A reminder that this thread is meant to be about the Max, it's return or developments while questions about the effects of not having the Max on AC's schedule or leased aircraft are best discussed in the "European & Canadian ban of 737 Max - Effect on AC" thread. Please note a number of posts have been moved to that thread so please continue the discussion in the linked thread.
Reagrds,
tcook052
AC forum mod.
Reagrds,
tcook052
AC forum mod.
Jul 16, 2019, 9:52 pm
#2966
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Jul 18, 2019, 5:42 pm
#2970
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The financial fallout from the troubled 737 Max jetliner continues to swell for Boeing, which on Thursday announced $7.3 billion in costs that will hit its bottom line.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/18/b...gtype=Homepage
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/18/b...gtype=Homepage