Sep 19, 2017, 10:25 am
Last edit by: 24left
Jan 18 2021 TC issues Airworthiness Directive for the 737 MAX
Link to post https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32976892-post4096.html
Cabin photos
Post 976 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29534462-post976.html
Post 1300 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29780203-post1300.html
Cabin Layout
Interior Specs can be found here https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/fly/onboard/fleet.html
- Window seats may feel narrower to come as the armrests are placed "into" the "curvature" of the cabin.
- Seats with no windows feel even more narrower as there is no space created by the curvature of window.
- All bulkhead seats have very limited legroom.
- Seats 15A, 16A, 16F, 17A and 17F have limited windows.
- Exit rows 19 and 20 have more legroom than regular preferred seats.
Routes
The 737 MAX is designated to replace the A320-series. Based on announcements and schedule updates, the following specific routes will be operated by the 737 MAX in future:
YYZ-LAX (periodic flights)
YYZ-SNN (new route)
YUL-DUB (new route)
YYZ/YUL-KEF (replacing Rouge A319)
YYT-LHR (replacing Mainline A319)
YHZ-LHR (replacing Mainline B767)
Hawaii Routes YVR/YYC (replacing Rouge B767)
Many domestic trunk routes (YYZ, YVR, YUL, YYC) now operated by 7M8, replacing A320 family
Link to post https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32976892-post4096.html
Cabin photos
Post 976 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29534462-post976.html
Post 1300 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29780203-post1300.html
Cabin Layout
Interior Specs can be found here https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/fly/onboard/fleet.html
- Window seats may feel narrower to come as the armrests are placed "into" the "curvature" of the cabin.
- Seats with no windows feel even more narrower as there is no space created by the curvature of window.
- All bulkhead seats have very limited legroom.
- Seats 15A, 16A, 16F, 17A and 17F have limited windows.
- Exit rows 19 and 20 have more legroom than regular preferred seats.
Routes
The 737 MAX is designated to replace the A320-series. Based on announcements and schedule updates, the following specific routes will be operated by the 737 MAX in future:
YYZ-LAX (periodic flights)
YYZ-SNN (new route)
YUL-DUB (new route)
YYZ/YUL-KEF (replacing Rouge A319)
YYT-LHR (replacing Mainline A319)
YHZ-LHR (replacing Mainline B767)
Hawaii Routes YVR/YYC (replacing Rouge B767)
Many domestic trunk routes (YYZ, YVR, YUL, YYC) now operated by 7M8, replacing A320 family
Air Canada Selects Boeing 737 MAX to Renew Mainline Narrowbody Fleet
Aug 6, 2019, 2:31 pm
#3046
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YYC
Posts: 23,808
\
My, doesn't that sound scary... "As safe was possible?" Except, even worse, when he says that, what he really plans for is likely "as safe as reasonably possible within costs and a time frame acceptable from the standpoint of Boeing bottom line." When it should be "at least as safe as the competition." Which is surely not achievable within constraints that Boeing and their customers can live with... All of which should be good news for the A220.
Last edited by tcook052; Aug 6, 2019 at 2:52 pm Reason: Off topic
Aug 6, 2019, 2:45 pm
#3047
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC SEMM / HH Diamond
Posts: 3,168
Boeing is capable of developing a redundant flight control system. The 777 and 787 aircraft have highly redundant flight control systems.
Here is an interesting reference: Triple-Triple Redundant 777 Primary Flight Computer, which is dated 1996.
Here is an interesting reference: Triple-Triple Redundant 777 Primary Flight Computer, which is dated 1996.
The problem is that the 737 was never designed to include a robust & redundant flight control computer system. As a result, the underlying infrastructure that is necessary to allow a computer to safely move flight controls, does not exist on the 737 MAX. Even that is not a problem, we don't see 737-800's (and prior) falling out of the sky. You don't need a computer to fly a plane, there's no reason why you can't rely on physical cables to move the control surfaces (like the 737 does, and like Cessna's do).
The problem is that Boeing chose to address the flight characteristic problem that the MAX had, with a computer based solution - on top of a computer system that was never designed to handle it.
This new approach (using multiple redundant computer systems) seems like Boeing are slowly and grudgingly retrofitting the MAX to include a modern flight control system - and my worry is that retrofitting things like that is usually harder than designing them correctly in the first place. I'm reminded of the quote by Brian Kernighan (the 'K' from K&R, for you old programmers): "Everyone knows that debugging is twice as hard as writing a program in the first place. So if you're as clever as you can be when you write it, how will you ever debug it?"
None of that gives me confidence that Boeing's computer retrofit plans will solve more problems than they will introduce.
Aug 6, 2019, 3:39 pm
#3049
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: YYC
Programs: AC 50k 1MM, Marriott LT Titanium Elite
Posts: 3,402
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/05/boei...ore-trust.html
Boeing CEO Dennis Muilenburg said Monday that the company has conducted almost 500 test flights with a new software update to its grounded 737 Max planes that he hopes will help win back the confidence of the flying public.
“We know that trust has been damaged over the last few months, and we own that and we are working hard to re-earn that trust going forward,” Muilenburg said in an interview at the Global Business Travel Association conference in Chicago. He said the company has focused on updating software to make the Boeing 737 Max as safe as possible.
The planes have been grounded worldwide since mid-March after two crashes within five months of one another claimed 346 lives.
Muilenburg said that he has personally flown on two of the test flights, and that Boeing employees are “eager to do the same.”
Boeing CEO Dennis Muilenburg said Monday that the company has conducted almost 500 test flights with a new software update to its grounded 737 Max planes that he hopes will help win back the confidence of the flying public.
“We know that trust has been damaged over the last few months, and we own that and we are working hard to re-earn that trust going forward,” Muilenburg said in an interview at the Global Business Travel Association conference in Chicago. He said the company has focused on updating software to make the Boeing 737 Max as safe as possible.
The planes have been grounded worldwide since mid-March after two crashes within five months of one another claimed 346 lives.
Muilenburg said that he has personally flown on two of the test flights, and that Boeing employees are “eager to do the same.”
Aug 6, 2019, 4:12 pm
#3051
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: YUL
Programs: AC SE (*A Gold), Bonvoy Platinum Elite, Hilton Gold, Amex Platinum / AP Reserve, NEXUS, Global Entry
Posts: 5,691
Aug 8, 2019, 9:12 am
#3053
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
Aug. 7, 2019, © Leeham News:
QUOTES:
"It will take Boeing nearly a year to deliver the stored 737 MAXes if the airplane returns to service in November, according to a new analysis by Bernstein Research.
......
"Bernstein predicts Boeing will be able to deliver 25 stored MAXes a month, resulting in the total Undelivered backlog being cleared by December 2020."
Plus some other stats
https://leehamnews.com/2019/08/07/su...mber-to-march/
QUOTES:
"It will take Boeing nearly a year to deliver the stored 737 MAXes if the airplane returns to service in November, according to a new analysis by Bernstein Research.
......
"Bernstein predicts Boeing will be able to deliver 25 stored MAXes a month, resulting in the total Undelivered backlog being cleared by December 2020."
Plus some other stats
https://leehamnews.com/2019/08/07/su...mber-to-march/
Aug 8, 2019, 10:10 am
#3054
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: YVR - MILLS Waypoint (It's the third house on the left)
Programs: AC*SE100K, wood level status in various other programs
Posts: 6,232
That's an interesting perspective. I guess there could be a scrap over how these things get allocated over time.
First things first though.
First things first though.
Aug 8, 2019, 10:31 am
#3055
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SJC/YUL
Programs: DL PM, Marriott Gold
Posts: 3,878
Aug 8, 2019, 10:34 am
#3056
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,354
I assume the default order would be the original delivery order.
Though I could also see airlines like AC actually deferring their delivery a bit if all their resources are being spent on getting the initial 24 back in the air, and getting pilots re-certified or whatever needs to be done.
Though I could also see airlines like AC actually deferring their delivery a bit if all their resources are being spent on getting the initial 24 back in the air, and getting pilots re-certified or whatever needs to be done.
Aug 8, 2019, 10:39 am
#3057
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: YYG
Programs: airlines and hotels and rental cars - oh my!
Posts: 3,000
Looks like at least two airframes are going back to the paint shop!
Aug 8, 2019, 10:44 am
#3058
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
Page 21 from the Second Quarter 2019 Management’s Discussion and Analysis of Results of Operations and Financial Condition
5. Fleet
"The tables below provide the number of aircraft in Air Canada’s operating fleet as at June 30, 2019 as well as Air Canada’s planned operating fleet as at December 31, 2019 and December 31, 2020. Given the grounding of the Boeing 737 MAX aircraft, as described below, Air Canada assumes, in the table below, that the remaining 12 Boeing 737 MAX aircraft deliveries scheduled for 2019 will be delivered in 2020."
https://www.aircanada.com/content/da...019_MDA_q2.pdf
5. Fleet
"The tables below provide the number of aircraft in Air Canada’s operating fleet as at June 30, 2019 as well as Air Canada’s planned operating fleet as at December 31, 2019 and December 31, 2020. Given the grounding of the Boeing 737 MAX aircraft, as described below, Air Canada assumes, in the table below, that the remaining 12 Boeing 737 MAX aircraft deliveries scheduled for 2019 will be delivered in 2020."
https://www.aircanada.com/content/da...019_MDA_q2.pdf
Aug 8, 2019, 10:49 am
#3059
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Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
This flock photo taken from a variety of different angles includes 2 clearly visible AC birds. Does anyone know how many of the 12 that were supposed to be delivered this year, have already been built? Painted?
Aug 8, 2019, 11:01 am
#3060
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 669
I assume the default order would be the original delivery order.
Though I could also see airlines like AC actually deferring their delivery a bit if all their resources are being spent on getting the initial 24 back in the air, and getting pilots re-certified or whatever needs to be done.
Though I could also see airlines like AC actually deferring their delivery a bit if all their resources are being spent on getting the initial 24 back in the air, and getting pilots re-certified or whatever needs to be done.