Sep 19, 2017, 10:25 am
Last edit by: 24left
Jan 18 2021 TC issues Airworthiness Directive for the 737 MAX
Link to post https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32976892-post4096.html
Cabin photos
Post 976 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29534462-post976.html
Post 1300 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29780203-post1300.html
Cabin Layout
Interior Specs can be found here https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/fly/onboard/fleet.html
- Window seats may feel narrower to come as the armrests are placed "into" the "curvature" of the cabin.
- Seats with no windows feel even more narrower as there is no space created by the curvature of window.
- All bulkhead seats have very limited legroom.
- Seats 15A, 16A, 16F, 17A and 17F have limited windows.
- Exit rows 19 and 20 have more legroom than regular preferred seats.
Routes
The 737 MAX is designated to replace the A320-series. Based on announcements and schedule updates, the following specific routes will be operated by the 737 MAX in future:
YYZ-LAX (periodic flights)
YYZ-SNN (new route)
YUL-DUB (new route)
YYZ/YUL-KEF (replacing Rouge A319)
YYT-LHR (replacing Mainline A319)
YHZ-LHR (replacing Mainline B767)
Hawaii Routes YVR/YYC (replacing Rouge B767)
Many domestic trunk routes (YYZ, YVR, YUL, YYC) now operated by 7M8, replacing A320 family
Link to post https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32976892-post4096.html
Cabin photos
Post 976 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29534462-post976.html
Post 1300 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29780203-post1300.html
Cabin Layout
Interior Specs can be found here https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/fly/onboard/fleet.html
- Window seats may feel narrower to come as the armrests are placed "into" the "curvature" of the cabin.
- Seats with no windows feel even more narrower as there is no space created by the curvature of window.
- All bulkhead seats have very limited legroom.
- Seats 15A, 16A, 16F, 17A and 17F have limited windows.
- Exit rows 19 and 20 have more legroom than regular preferred seats.
Routes
The 737 MAX is designated to replace the A320-series. Based on announcements and schedule updates, the following specific routes will be operated by the 737 MAX in future:
YYZ-LAX (periodic flights)
YYZ-SNN (new route)
YUL-DUB (new route)
YYZ/YUL-KEF (replacing Rouge A319)
YYT-LHR (replacing Mainline A319)
YHZ-LHR (replacing Mainline B767)
Hawaii Routes YVR/YYC (replacing Rouge B767)
Many domestic trunk routes (YYZ, YVR, YUL, YYC) now operated by 7M8, replacing A320 family
Air Canada Selects Boeing 737 MAX to Renew Mainline Narrowbody Fleet
May 10, 2019, 3:40 pm
#2806
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC SEMM / HH Diamond
Posts: 3,167
I do tend to agree with that. If the NG and the MAX are equivalent, why on earth would any airline with NG simulators buy new ones?
However, AC bought the optional features for MCAS, which most airlines did not, and I don't think that has much to do with it being a new type for them.
However, AC bought the optional features for MCAS, which most airlines did not, and I don't think that has much to do with it being a new type for them.
The only options that I'm aware (although I don't claim to have definitive knowledge on this) are the two AoA related displays: one to indicate the actual AoA to the pilots, and the second to generate an active warning when the two AoA sensors disagree. I have read that AC did purchase both of those options.
After the fact we know that the AoA has a big bearing on the operation of MCAS - but I've read nothing that indicated anyone knew about that correlation when AC signed the MAX purchase agreement.
May 10, 2019, 3:49 pm
#2807
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,353
Minor note - I don't think AC purchased (because I don't think there are any) "optional features for MCAS".
The only options that I'm aware (although I don't claim to have definitive knowledge on this) are the two AoA related displays: one to indicate the actual AoA to the pilots, and the second to generate an active warning when the two AoA sensors disagree. I have read that AC did purchase both of those options.
After the fact we know that the AoA has a big bearing on the operation of MCAS - but I've read nothing that indicated anyone knew about that correlation when AC signed the MAX purchase agreement.
The only options that I'm aware (although I don't claim to have definitive knowledge on this) are the two AoA related displays: one to indicate the actual AoA to the pilots, and the second to generate an active warning when the two AoA sensors disagree. I have read that AC did purchase both of those options.
After the fact we know that the AoA has a big bearing on the operation of MCAS - but I've read nothing that indicated anyone knew about that correlation when AC signed the MAX purchase agreement.
May 10, 2019, 3:53 pm
#2808
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: YXU
Programs: AC SE100K, National E/E, HH Diamond, IHG Diamond, MB, Avis PC
Posts: 970
Minor note - I don't think AC purchased (because I don't think there are any) "optional features for MCAS".
The only options that I'm aware (although I don't claim to have definitive knowledge on this) are the two AoA related displays: one to indicate the actual AoA to the pilots, and the second to generate an active warning when the two AoA sensors disagree. I have read that AC did purchase both of those options.
After the fact we know that the AoA has a big bearing on the operation of MCAS - but I've read nothing that indicated anyone knew about that correlation when AC signed the MAX purchase agreement.
The only options that I'm aware (although I don't claim to have definitive knowledge on this) are the two AoA related displays: one to indicate the actual AoA to the pilots, and the second to generate an active warning when the two AoA sensors disagree. I have read that AC did purchase both of those options.
After the fact we know that the AoA has a big bearing on the operation of MCAS - but I've read nothing that indicated anyone knew about that correlation when AC signed the MAX purchase agreement.
May 10, 2019, 5:34 pm
#2809
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 669
Once AC takes delivery of the aircraft there are third party options not offered by Boeing that get installed in Kelowna. This is stuff like wifi and satellite TV. Same thing as when you buy a car and you decided you want the glow in the dark lighting on the under cartage that locks in to the beat of the radio. (Thankfully the thought process driving the after-market auto industry has not transitions to airlines yet.).
May 10, 2019, 8:08 pm
#2810
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Vancouver
Programs: Aeroplan, Mileage Plus, WestJet Gold, AMEX Plat
Posts: 2,026
How do you know this?
The lawsuits that certainly will follow JT & ET will definitely test Boeing disclosure around this very issue. And for AC, this maybe the difference of a hull loss or not.
The consequences of this option may make all the difference for family and friends of 357 lost souls - not something I would compare to flashing car deco lights.
The lawsuits that certainly will follow JT & ET will definitely test Boeing disclosure around this very issue. And for AC, this maybe the difference of a hull loss or not.
The consequences of this option may make all the difference for family and friends of 357 lost souls - not something I would compare to flashing car deco lights.
Should the extra indicators have been mandatory? Probably.
May 11, 2019, 1:04 pm
#2812
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Vancouver
Programs: Aeroplan, Mileage Plus, WestJet Gold, AMEX Plat
Posts: 2,026
recent report about this indicate about a year before JT, Boeing knew - how?
and why was this NOT discovered prior to certification? and was the option still being sold after Boeing knew?
Questions of due diligence, duty of care, and even “ought to have known” will be tested in the courts - so we agree AC did more than box ticking to acquire this option?
- The disagree light that tells the pilots if the sensor disagree
- The angle of attack indicator
These were first identified as options that were not specific to AC. Some airline adopted both of them, some just one and some none. How did the airlines decide on the options they selected. That is a good questions. Probably the same way they decided on the radios in the cockpit and the colour of the side panel.
Looks like the latest news is some airline went with only one of the options but it required the other to function and Boeing never disclosed this to the airlines.
https://thepointsguy.com/news/boeing...nt-functional/
May 13, 2019, 8:55 am
#2813
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YYC
Posts: 23,805
News in my mailbox this morning:
Pilots Attempt Ethiopian MAX Crash Simulator Scenario. Aviation Week (5/10) reported that “a simulator session flown by a U.S.-based Boeing 737 MAX crew that mimicked a key portion of the Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 (ET302) accident sequence suggests that the Ethiopian crew faced a near-impossible task of getting their 737 MAX 8 back under control, and underscores the importance of pilots understanding severe runaway trim recovery procedures.”
May 15, 2019, 7:08 am
#2814
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC SEMM / HH Diamond
Posts: 3,167
For those wondering how (or if) Boeing is going to attract customers back to the MAX ..... this is how.
Fears of flying Boeing’s 737 MAX won’t get in way of price conscious ticket shoppers: Reuters/IPSOS poll
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-e...-idUSKCN1SL12D
Fears of flying Boeing’s 737 MAX won’t get in way of price conscious ticket shoppers: Reuters/IPSOS poll
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-e...-idUSKCN1SL12D
In the public opinion poll released May 15, only about half of U.S. adults say they are familiar with the airplane crashes in Indonesia and Ethiopia that together killed 346 people, and only 43% could identify the Boeing 737 MAX as the aircraft involved.
Most importantly for Boeing in the wake of the crashes, only 3% said that aircraft maker or model number was most important to them when buying a plane ticket. In contrast, 57% said ticket price was most important.
Most importantly for Boeing in the wake of the crashes, only 3% said that aircraft maker or model number was most important to them when buying a plane ticket. In contrast, 57% said ticket price was most important.
May 15, 2019, 8:35 am
#2815
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YYC
Posts: 23,805
And today's news (from the daily AIAA newsletter):
CBS News (5/14) reported on audio from a meeting between American Airlines pilots and a Boeing representative last November in which the pilots confronted The Boeing Company “about new features to the 737 Max that may have been factors in two deadly crashes.” In the November 2018 meeting, “the pilots at the meeting were angry that system was not disclosed to them until after the first crash.” A pilot said in the recording, “We flat out deserve to know what is on our airplanes.” Boeing Vice President Mike Sinnett, “who does not appear to know he was being recorded, claimed what happened to Lion Air was once-in-a-lifetime type scenario.” Sinnett’s response did not leave “the pilots in the room...satisfied with that answer.” Sinnett added, “We don’t want to rush and do a crappy job of fixing the right things, and we also don’t want to fix the wrong things.” Business Insider (5/14) reports that American Airlines CEO Doug Parker said that the airline is cooperating with regulators “and our pilots and with Boeing to get to a point that we all feel comfortable the aircraft is safe, it won’t be flying until everyone is comfortable about that.” He said, “If an American Airlines pilot is comfortable flying that airplane, we all can know with 100% certainty that airplane is safe because we have the best-trained pilots in the world.” Parker indicated that Boeing should disclose everything about the jet to the pilots who fly the aircraft, and the recent crisis involving the 737 MAX “has highlighted some issues that need to be addressed.” Parker said that he would “absolutely” fly in the 737 MAX once it is recertified. He added, “I know for certain that if it’s certified and an American Airlines pilot is comfortable flying it, then it’s 100% safe.” Boeing Stores 737 MAX Jets In Texas As Grounding Continues Bloomberg (5/14) reports that Boeing is storing its newly made 737 MAX jets in San Antonio as it waits for regulators to end the grounding of the jets. Boeing spokesman Doug Alder confirmed in an email after a “planespotter” located a jet en route to Texas: “The Boeing San Antonio site will temporarily store airplanes as part of our inventory-management plan.” Alder added that the jets “will return to Washington state where they will be delivered to our customers.” Boeing Did Not Record Any New Orders In April CNN (5/14) reports that figures released by Boeing on Tuesday revealed that the company did not receive any orders for new jets in April, including models other than the 737 MAX. FAA Classified MCAS As Non-Critical Safety Risk The Wall Street Journal (5/14, Subscription Publication) reports that an internal review at the FAA found that senior FAA officials did not participate in the evaluations of the Boeing 737 MAX’s MCAS system, and Boeing did not disclose the MCAS among the systems that could cause a critical failure on the jet if it malfunctioned.
May 15, 2019, 10:53 am
#2816
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 2,494
Agreed. Boeing sold the max on this matter. That's why no North American airline ordered any Max simulators except AC. Beside AC, North American airline do not have the ability to train their pilots on a Max simulator. My understanding, non Max simulators will not quilify pilots for the max in Canada. This puts WS into a bad position..
That being said, AC has consistently shown they are very good at screwing up public relations.
May 15, 2019, 11:07 am
#2817
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Programs: AC SE100K, F9 100k, NK Gold, UA *S, Hyatt Glob, Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 5,197
If AC allowed at least some time to WS pilots to train (I assume their 737 pilots have already started and are ahead of the ball here), that would be a massive public relations win. "Look, we shared our simulators with WestJet to ensure the safety of Canadians!" 🇨🇦
That being said, AC has consistently shown they are very good at screwing up public relations.
That being said, AC has consistently shown they are very good at screwing up public relations.
//Doesn't really matter how much training time they give their pilots, until MCAS 1.0 / 2.0 scenarios are loaded.
May 15, 2019, 11:17 am
#2818
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 669
If AC allowed at least some time to WS pilots to train (I assume their 737 pilots have already started and are ahead of the ball here), that would be a massive public relations win. "Look, we shared our simulators with WestJet to ensure the safety of Canadians!" 🇨🇦
That being said, AC has consistently shown they are very good at screwing up public relations.
That being said, AC has consistently shown they are very good at screwing up public relations.
This has nothing to do with public relations.
May 15, 2019, 11:36 am
#2819
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Halifax
Programs: AC SE100K, Marriott Lifetime Platinum Elite. NEXUS
Posts: 4,570
The pilots who are now dead, with or without simulator time last year, would not have had any MCAS avoidance skills. Pilots in a simulator today would have neither MCAS 1.0 avoidance skills or MCAS 2.0 using skills.
MCAS 1.0 is undocumented to the point of secrecy. 2.0 doesn't yet exist.
May 15, 2019, 8:59 pm
#2820
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: YYC
Programs: BA bronze, Aeroplan peon
Posts: 4,746
Do we know for sure that they don't already sell time on their simulators to other airlines? I know other airlines routinely sell time on their simulators to staff from other airlines and occasionally the general public.