May 5, 2014, 8:21 pm
Last edit by: Arcanum
Flights operated by Air Canada rouge
NOTE: Rouge Wifi information can be found here
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-c...l#post28448087
Dates in brackets indicate planned start of rouge service (either as a new route or replacing mainline service). ML placed before a date indicates the date that service is reverting to mainline.
All Airbus A319/A321 service is in the new Premium Rouge configuration with 2x2J seats. All other routes are Boeing 767-300ER aircraft in a 24J/258Y layout.
Airport codes in blue indicate that these routes are Boeing 767-300ER aircraft for all services.
Airport codes in red indicate that these routes are split between Boeing 767-300ER and Airbus services.
Airport codes in black indicate that these routes are Airbus aircraft for all services.
Routes are organized based on the established rouge bases of YYZ, YUL, YYC, and YVR
*Seasonal Summer Service
YYZ
Canada
YQT YQY YXX YLW YYG (02MAY-OCT) YDF YQB YQM (01MAY19) YFC (01JUL19)
USA
MCO TPA LAS FLL HNL SRQ RSW SAN PHX MIA PSP (14DEC16)
Mexico
CUN PVR SJD
Caribbean
KIN NAS LIR GND MBJ AZS CCC CUR HUX PUJ POP SKB SJO SXM LRM HOG SNU UVF VRA BGI (07JAN) POS (21DEC16)
Europe
ATH BCN EDI VCE MAN LIS PRG BUD GLA LGW
Central and South America
LIM BOG PTY
YUL
USA
LAS MCO FLL PBI TPA MIA
Mexico
CUN MEX PVR (18NOV16)
Caribbean
ZSA CCC HOG PUJ SNU PLS POP PAP NAS (17JAN) PTP
Europe
FCO ATH BCN NCE VCE
Central and South America
SJO (22DEC16)
Africa
CMN
YYC
Canada
YHZ* YHM (2016)
USA
LAS PHX (winter only - PHX AC Express in summer)
YVR
USA
LAS HNL OGG PHX PSP KOA SAN (02JUN)
Mexico
CUN PVR
Asia
KIX
Europe
DUB LGA KEF
What to Do If Your Flight Has Been Rouged According to the AC Rep "Air Canada Altitude": call AC Reservations, cancel and get a refund.
Air Canada rouge, a leisure airline
Nov 20, 2014, 6:46 pm
#3976
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: YVR
Programs: E50K, *Gold, WS Gold,VIA Premier, VIPorter
Posts: 463
Nov 20, 2014, 7:14 pm
#3977
Formerly known as tireman77
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,531
WS a 737
How much do you want to bet, on that week both will be completely full.
Also, I'd bet a good many seats on the Rouge flight are reserved for AC Vaca...
Nov 20, 2014, 7:56 pm
#3978
Join Date: May 2012
Location: BKK/SIN/YYZ/YUL
Programs: DL, AC, Bonvoy, Accor, Hilton
Posts: 2,924
Economy Plus 36-39" pitch 18.5" wide seats
Economy 31-33' pitch 18.5 wide seats
vs.
Premium Rouge 37" pitch 18.5 wide seats
Rouge Plus 35"pitch 18 " wide seats
Economy 30" pitch 17.5 wide seats
For the majority of customers, the ones who are price sensitive, who do you think will be more comfortable? I offer that the 232 AC pax sitting in the cramped cheap seat space will be more miserable than the 156 WestJet pax sitting in the slightly roomier cheap seats.
Nov 20, 2014, 9:20 pm
#3979
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ontario, CAN
Posts: 5,813
Was just looking at YOW-MBJ Feb 21-28 non-stop.
Westjet is $735
Air Canada mainline is $660.
Think it's obvious ... Our detailed fare research and analysis proves Westjet is less expensive than Rouge yet more expensive than AC Mainline on every route they compete
Nov 21, 2014, 12:39 am
#3980
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: YVR
Programs: AC*SE MM, Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 4,604
The WestJet flight is a 737-800 with;
Economy Plus 36-39" pitch 18.5" wide seats
Economy 31-33' pitch 18.5 wide seats
vs.
Premium Rouge 37" pitch 18.5 wide seats
Rouge Plus 35"pitch 18 " wide seats
Economy 30" pitch 17.5 wide seats
For the majority of customers, the ones who are price sensitive, who do you think will be more comfortable? I offer that the 232 AC pax sitting in the cramped cheap seat space will be more miserable than the 156 WestJet pax sitting in the slightly roomier cheap seats.
Economy Plus 36-39" pitch 18.5" wide seats
Economy 31-33' pitch 18.5 wide seats
vs.
Premium Rouge 37" pitch 18.5 wide seats
Rouge Plus 35"pitch 18 " wide seats
Economy 30" pitch 17.5 wide seats
For the majority of customers, the ones who are price sensitive, who do you think will be more comfortable? I offer that the 232 AC pax sitting in the cramped cheap seat space will be more miserable than the 156 WestJet pax sitting in the slightly roomier cheap seats.
I'm not sure where you're getting some of your numbers. The 737 has an interior seat width of 17.0. Your 18.5 value includes the armrests. I can't speak to pitch, but 39" seems awfully generous for Y+
On the 767, Y has a 17.5" width and premium rouge has 18.5" with some additional armrest space.
On the 319 all seats are 18" width.
Unless you're flying on a 767 in PY, WS does have AC beat on pitch with rouge, but AC has more generous seat widths in all cases due to aircraft differences.
Nov 21, 2014, 5:03 am
#3982
Formerly known as tireman77
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,531
The WestJet flight is a 737-800 with;
Economy Plus 36-39" pitch 18.5" wide seats
Economy 31-33' pitch 18.5 wide seats
vs.
Premium Rouge 37" pitch 18.5 wide seats
Rouge Plus 35"pitch 18 " wide seats
Economy 30" pitch 17.5 wide seats
For the majority of customers, the ones who are price sensitive, who do you think will be more comfortable? I offer that the 232 AC pax sitting in the cramped cheap seat space will be more miserable than the 156 WestJet pax sitting in the slightly roomier cheap seats.
Economy Plus 36-39" pitch 18.5" wide seats
Economy 31-33' pitch 18.5 wide seats
vs.
Premium Rouge 37" pitch 18.5 wide seats
Rouge Plus 35"pitch 18 " wide seats
Economy 30" pitch 17.5 wide seats
For the majority of customers, the ones who are price sensitive, who do you think will be more comfortable? I offer that the 232 AC pax sitting in the cramped cheap seat space will be more miserable than the 156 WestJet pax sitting in the slightly roomier cheap seats.
I was saying that ACr will fill a bigger plane at (according to your research) higher fares than WS will.
If they can sell more, at higher prices, wouldn't they be stupid not to?
The second part of my statement refers to the idea that the vast majority of people on that plane (I hate to put an estimated number but I'd guess well over 80%) will be sold via AC-Vaca. In that case, its impossible to know what price of seats they are paying.
The flight you chose to price is essentially an AC Vaca charter and any additional money from non vacationing O/D passengers is gravy.
Nov 21, 2014, 7:15 am
#3983
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: YXU
Programs: AC SE100K, National E/E, HH Diamond, IHG Diamond, MB, Avis PC
Posts: 971
The answer to that is No...and Yes. So I would answer NYes...
Initially only the 767 were to be transferred to Rouge.
The A330s have been scheduled to install a PE section to make the entire wide-body product consistent.
However, some of the language in the most recent agreement with the Pilots seems to allow AC to transfer them to Rouge, so there is a door open on that front.
Clear as mud... I know.
Initially only the 767 were to be transferred to Rouge.
The A330s have been scheduled to install a PE section to make the entire wide-body product consistent.
However, some of the language in the most recent agreement with the Pilots seems to allow AC to transfer them to Rouge, so there is a door open on that front.
Clear as mud... I know.
That said, the A333 would be an excellent choice for Rouge. It would be able to carry about 340 pax in reasonable comfort for reasonable money.
Last edited by WildcatYXU; Nov 21, 2014 at 7:22 am
Nov 21, 2014, 7:16 am
#3984
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada
Programs: UA*1K MM SK EBG LATAM BL
Posts: 23,314
And those buying via AC Vaca will probably have no clue about what Rouge is - they think they are buying an Air Canada vacation - until their knees are crushed onboard (nor will they likely care)
Nov 21, 2014, 7:33 am
#3985
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: YXU
Programs: AC SE100K, National E/E, HH Diamond, IHG Diamond, MB, Avis PC
Posts: 971
In this case they won't care, since they will get a 767 with 30" seat pitch. Other vacation providers aren't better either - the only exception is WS.
Nov 21, 2014, 9:59 pm
#3986
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: sqrt(-united states of apologist)
Programs: *$ Green
Posts: 5,403
The ACV packages that fly rouge are clearly marked as so. You have to miss it on purpose not to notice.
Nov 22, 2014, 6:41 am
#3988
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada
Programs: UA*1K MM SK EBG LATAM BL
Posts: 23,314
Until it stops saying Air Canada, people will continue to think/expect Air Canada-like service/"comfort". Most Canadians are not as up to speed with rouging/tangoing/slaveshipping of AC as we are around here.
Nov 22, 2014, 9:19 am
#3989
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: YYZ
Programs: All Accor Plat, 1865 Voyager, AE E35K, HH Gold,Hyatt, Hrtz Gold, Marriott Gold, NEXUS
Posts: 1,670
767 Rouge vs. UA 757-300
Booking a trip to Hawaii with AE miles. I chose UA 757-300 J LAX-OGG with YYZ-LAX on AC 767 over Premium Rouge on AC through YVR. Any thoughts if that will be any better? 
Nov 22, 2014, 9:33 am
#3990
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
Spent a few days trying to figure out how to get back to Hawaii- paid not on miles. (The HNL trip a couple of weeks ago was one of the last on mainline).
As you know, only YYC-OGG and YVR-KOA are mainline. All others are now rouge. We have no intention of flying them - either from YYZ or from any other point, even in premium. One trip with them was enough.
Here's the interesting thing though and maybe others can offer opinion:
I was trying various options on ac.com. If I want to fly for eg. YYZ-OGG or KOA, the site's top item is rouge. After that, the routes are all AC with UA.
Yet, if I want to fly directly from YYC-OGG or YVR-KOA, the site lets me book that. So it seems that if you want mainline from YYZ to either OGG or KOA with connections, you will have to buy 2 separate tickets. (AC likely also assumes that if you want to fly to Hawaii form YYZ, you would want the shortest flight and a direct one for convenience. Not all of us.)
I am sure some of you know a way around this. And I know there will others with far more experience who can offer better answers.