View Poll Results: Is an American Airlines/US Airways merger good for the traveling public?
Yes
84
28.19%
No
214
71.81%
Voters: 298. You may not vote on this poll
Last edit by: aztimm
Note:
There is an existing thread in the AA forum that may be useful to US and AA Flyertalkers:
US-AA Merger: Just the Facts thread
As facts become posted, that should be the place to look.
Merger discussion, speculation, and other questions can be directed here, or the similar thread in the AA forum:
MERGER: US and AA 9 Dec 2013 and implications for AA flyers (new)
AA - US Merger Agreement / Announcement / DOJ Action Discussion (consolidated, and now closed to new posts)
There is an existing thread in the AA forum that may be useful to US and AA Flyertalkers:
US-AA Merger: Just the Facts thread
As facts become posted, that should be the place to look.
Merger discussion, speculation, and other questions can be directed here, or the similar thread in the AA forum:
MERGER: US and AA 9 Dec 2013 and implications for AA flyers (new)
AA - US Merger Agreement / Announcement / DOJ Action Discussion (consolidated, and now closed to new posts)
US/AA merger- MASTER DISCUSSION THREAD/incl 'when will US leave STAR'
#2236
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: High Point, NC
Programs: None
Posts: 9,171
... and that's exactly what the idea of qualifying by revenue rewards. So why is that an issue for anyone?
Again, read what I wrote. I said I'd like to see spend as more than just a disqualifier. It shouldn't make a difference to US whether I spend $15k on 50 segments and 60k miles of flying or if I'm spending it on MRs. The whole point is that you want to offer the most benefits to the customers who exhibit the behavior you want to reward. The only losers in a revenue qualifying scheme are the low-spend, high mileage fliers - those who take more out in benefits than they put in in cash.
Again, read what I wrote. I said I'd like to see spend as more than just a disqualifier. It shouldn't make a difference to US whether I spend $15k on 50 segments and 60k miles of flying or if I'm spending it on MRs. The whole point is that you want to offer the most benefits to the customers who exhibit the behavior you want to reward. The only losers in a revenue qualifying scheme are the low-spend, high mileage fliers - those who take more out in benefits than they put in in cash.
Why the heck wouldn't the airline want to incentivize with a scheme that was 100k/120 seg/ $15k as qualifying thresholds? In that instance, there really aren't any losers.
Jim
#2237
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: High Point, NC
Programs: None
Posts: 9,171
I merely talked about employees because that's what someone mentioned - why were the employees so strongly for the merger. He/she didn't ask why employees and management were so strongly for the merger.
Jim
#2238
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: body: A stone's throw from SFO, mind: SE Asia
Programs: Some of this 'n some of that
Posts: 17,263
Fair enough in that case. ^
#2239
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: DTW
Posts: 322
I'm thinking about buying a US ticket on 01/09. Any chance they'd still be in *A by then?
#2240
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Melbourne
Programs: ►QFWP/LTG►VA WP►HyattExpl.►HiltonGold►ALL Silver
Posts: 21,995
If the Jan 7th co-operation date being mentioned is anything to go by, US would still be in *A on the 9th (but you could optionally credit to AAdvantage rather than DM).
Look upthread- reports have them exiting *A in the first ŧ 2014, but "hopefully" by the end of January.
Look upthread- reports have them exiting *A in the first ŧ 2014, but "hopefully" by the end of January.
#2241
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: BOS
Programs: Marriott LTG, HHonors Diamond, Nat'l Exec
Posts: 3,581
That said, DL and UA have both set the 100k revenue bar at $10k -- which seems like a more reasonable threshold. If the airline isn't profiting enough to reward a $10k per year customer, there's probably something structurally wrong with fares.
#2242
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Usually in SAN or Central Europe.
Programs: AA:EXP/1MM. Accor/Radisson:Silver; HH:Gold; ICH:Plt Amb.
Posts: 22,307
I doubt there are a ton of low-revenue, high-segment flyers, but there are probably more low-revenue, high-mileage flyers. $15k for 100k miles is 15CPM, which is actually reasonably high. That would be $783 for a BOS-LAX round trip, for example; AA's walkup fare on that route is only $1,050.
That said, DL and UA have both set the 100k revenue bar at $10k -- which seems like a more reasonable threshold. If the airline isn't profiting enough to reward a $10k per year customer, there's probably something structurally wrong with fares.
That said, DL and UA have both set the 100k revenue bar at $10k -- which seems like a more reasonable threshold. If the airline isn't profiting enough to reward a $10k per year customer, there's probably something structurally wrong with fares.
Last edited by Fanjet; Nov 17, 2013 at 3:13 pm
#2243
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: WAS, LAX
Programs: AS 100K
Posts: 1,330
Originally Posted by azepine00
the only nonsense here is suggesting TOD exist in a meaningful way - in all my flights as an elite as well as statusless family/colleagues i have not seen anything resembling TOD. TOD on UA is an urban myth.
#2244
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: WAS, LAX
Programs: AS 100K
Posts: 1,330
Originally Posted by BoeingBoy
No losers means ignoring spend per trip - it's just a different twist on what exists now. $15k for 100k miles/120 segments is easy to accomplish - $125/segment is all it takes. It doesn't weed out the low fare/high miles/segments flyer who may be a barely above breakeven customer.
Jim
Jim
#2245
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: WAS, LAX
Programs: AS 100K
Posts: 1,330
Originally Posted by Fanjet
...
And btw, DL's revenue bar for top status will be $12,500.
And btw, DL's revenue bar for top status will be $12,500.
#2246
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2001
Programs: DL 1 million, AA 1 mil, HH lapsed Diamond, Marriott Plat
Posts: 28,190
Partner metal qualifies when DL-coded, and may count for certain carriers when DL-ticketed.
http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_...n-dollars.html
Everything UA- and Copa-coded counts. Partner flights count when UA ticketed.
http://www.mileageplusupdates.com/faqs.html
#2247
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: High Point, NC
Programs: None
Posts: 9,171
I've said it several times over the last several years - eventually the legacies will reward the profitability of a passenger. The systems probably can't do it now, but whether miles/segment or spend both are just very rough proxies for profitability.
Jim
Last edited by BoeingBoy; Nov 17, 2013 at 5:30 pm
#2248
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Stuck Between the Moon and CLD or SAN, Your local Taco Bell
Programs: AA EXP/LT PLT, DL PM, UA Silver, SPG Plat, Marriott Plat, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 3,510
If you read back to post 2212 in this thread, I said the following:
Personally, I'd like to see them use spend as a qualifier (not just a dis qualifier). They really want to reward margin over miles or segments flown... if I spend $15-20k/yr, why do they care how many miles or segments I spent it on? It's in their interest to have it be on as few flights as possible.
A low fare purchaser could have more spend than a premium purchaser who doesn't fly as many segments/miles while costing US more. That isn't the behavior US necessarily wants to reward. They'd prefer the high spend few segments/miles customer - spend as little as possible on that customer (few segments/miles) while taking in the most revenue.
For example, if someone who's a "low fare purchaser" spends $400 each on 20 transcons (enough, roughly, to qualify for CP) and is upgraded on 80% of those flights, then not only does that passenger provide a low yield but they also "cost" 16 upgrades, not to mention miles/missed bag fees/etc. This passenger winds up spending $8,000 to make CP but comes with the cost of 20 flights and their associated benefits.
Now, take someone who spends $800 a trip, but only flies 10 trips a year on the same routes. They still spend $8,000, but the cost to serve that passenger and provide them benefits is half because they only fly half as often.
The margin on passenger A above is less than half of the margin of passenger B. That's why you'd want to have as many "passenger B's" as you can while minimizing the cost to serve "passenger A's". Finally, even if passenger A flew 25 trips (25% more than passenger B), Passenger B would STILL provide more margin.
#2249
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Stuck Between the Moon and CLD or SAN, Your local Taco Bell
Programs: AA EXP/LT PLT, DL PM, UA Silver, SPG Plat, Marriott Plat, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 3,510
United used to have a program a while back which gave someone elite status for buying a travel card. The value on the card was only valid for a year. And the status you were given was tagged to how much value was loaded onto the card. I want to say that top status was given to someone who purchased a $20K travel card.
$2,500 AAdvantage GoldŽ
$5,000 AAdvantage PlatinumŽ
$10,000 AAdvantage Executive PlatinumŽ
That essentially made spend a qualifier if you could pay it all up front.
#2250
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Usually in SAN or Central Europe.
Programs: AA:EXP/1MM. Accor/Radisson:Silver; HH:Gold; ICH:Plt Amb.
Posts: 22,307
[QUOTE=flyingmusicianlax;21802032]That's for Diamond, which has been 125k miles since the 2007 merger. I think some would argue that setting the bar higher at DL for top status helps thin the ranks a bit. I happen to think 100k is good enough (even though I'm a 125k+ per yr flyer). DL is also the only legacy without an unpublished top tier similar to CK/GS.[/QUOTE]
Isn't that what the new "Delta 360" program is? And they really aren't that unpublished. Only the details on what the exact qualifiers are for that level. However, at UA, someone with 4 MM status becomes lifetime GS. The benefits are pretty much clear though.
Isn't that what the new "Delta 360" program is? And they really aren't that unpublished. Only the details on what the exact qualifiers are for that level. However, at UA, someone with 4 MM status becomes lifetime GS. The benefits are pretty much clear though.