View Poll Results: Is an American Airlines/US Airways merger good for the traveling public?
Yes
84
28.19%
No
214
71.81%
Voters: 298. You may not vote on this poll
Nov 12, 2013, 2:24 pm
Last edit by: aztimm
Note:
There is an existing thread in the AA forum that may be useful to US and AA Flyertalkers:
US-AA Merger: Just the Facts thread
As facts become posted, that should be the place to look.
Merger discussion, speculation, and other questions can be directed here, or the similar thread in the AA forum:
MERGER: US and AA 9 Dec 2013 and implications for AA flyers (new)
AA - US Merger Agreement / Announcement / DOJ Action Discussion (consolidated, and now closed to new posts)
There is an existing thread in the AA forum that may be useful to US and AA Flyertalkers:
US-AA Merger: Just the Facts thread
As facts become posted, that should be the place to look.
Merger discussion, speculation, and other questions can be directed here, or the similar thread in the AA forum:
MERGER: US and AA 9 Dec 2013 and implications for AA flyers (new)
AA - US Merger Agreement / Announcement / DOJ Action Discussion (consolidated, and now closed to new posts)
US/AA merger- MASTER DISCUSSION THREAD/incl 'when will US leave STAR'
Nov 15, 2013, 9:57 am
#2206
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: DCA/IAD
Programs: AA EXP; 1W Emerald; HHonors Diamond; Marriott Gold; UA dirt
Posts: 7,816
Who wants to bet that within six months of closing of this deal, AA institutes VFF tier status levels with tie ins to revenue requirements (a la COdbaUnited and Delta)...
Nov 15, 2013, 9:58 am
#2207
Join Date: May 2011
Programs: US Airways Gold, Marriott Platinum, SW A List
Posts: 1,575
Makes sense for them to do that.
Nov 15, 2013, 12:07 pm
#2209
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Stuck Between the Moon and CLD or SAN, Your local Taco Bell
Programs: AA EXP/LT PLT, DL PM, UA Silver, SPG Plat, Marriott Plat, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 3,510
The Envoy certs are a nice perk, but many of us also pay full boat for those seats. When I'm flying leisure, it's price and cert availability - no question. That's one of several TATL trips I've taken this year... and the others were paid pay-through-the-nose fares. If Envoy product was only filled with upgraders it wouldn't exist - plain and simple. It's high margin business.
I really don't know where you get this sort of thing from...
What I said was that the folks who pay the big bucks (paid premium passengers) care about arriving with a short at some sleep so they don't lose a day. That's a fact - and people *DO* pay for those seats. Even some folks I know who fly in the back are pretty commonly popping an Ambien if the flight is long enough. Thus, some folks prefer the longer flights afforded by DFW/ORD vs. JFK/PHL.
What the heck does your rant have to do with that?
So spare me the "I fly so much that I support US while the riffraff is subsidized by me" speech. Every person on any airplane is important - take a couple off each flight and US or any airline is hemorrhaging money.
What I said was that the folks who pay the big bucks (paid premium passengers) care about arriving with a short at some sleep so they don't lose a day. That's a fact - and people *DO* pay for those seats. Even some folks I know who fly in the back are pretty commonly popping an Ambien if the flight is long enough. Thus, some folks prefer the longer flights afforded by DFW/ORD vs. JFK/PHL.
What the heck does your rant have to do with that?
Nov 15, 2013, 5:39 pm
#2210
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: in the vicinity of SFO
Programs: AA 2MM (LT-PLT, PPro for this year)
Posts: 19,781
Pure speculation, but given that the qualifying year parallels the calendar year --
It's either too late or very nearly too late to announce for the 2014 qualifying year, at least using full-year spend totals; neither of the other big US carriers phased it in, so my guess is that you're right that it will be at least 12 until it takes effect.
Probably well under 12 months until it's announced, and effective 1/1/15.
It's either too late or very nearly too late to announce for the 2014 qualifying year, at least using full-year spend totals; neither of the other big US carriers phased it in, so my guess is that you're right that it will be at least 12 until it takes effect.
Probably well under 12 months until it's announced, and effective 1/1/15.
Nov 15, 2013, 6:43 pm
#2211
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Stuck Between the Moon and CLD or SAN, Your local Taco Bell
Programs: AA EXP/LT PLT, DL PM, UA Silver, SPG Plat, Marriott Plat, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 3,510
Pure speculation, but given that the qualifying year parallels the calendar year --
It's either too late or very nearly too late to announce for the 2014 qualifying year, at least using full-year spend totals; neither of the other big US carriers phased it in, so my guess is that you're right that it will be at least 12 until it takes effect.
Probably well under 12 months until it's announced, and effective 1/1/15.
It's either too late or very nearly too late to announce for the 2014 qualifying year, at least using full-year spend totals; neither of the other big US carriers phased it in, so my guess is that you're right that it will be at least 12 until it takes effect.
Probably well under 12 months until it's announced, and effective 1/1/15.
Nov 15, 2013, 7:11 pm
#2212
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: ROA / CLT
Programs: AA Plat, Marriott Life Plat
Posts: 801
I'm also looking forward to trying out OW partner BA and their 001/002 service from JFK into LCY airport -- an A318 with just 32 business-class seats. It's not quite the same as when those flight numbers meant Concorde, but flying transatlantic directly to central London is still pretty cool.
Nov 15, 2013, 8:39 pm
#2213
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: High Point, NC
Programs: None
Posts: 9,171
The Envoy certs are a nice perk, but many of us also pay full boat for those seats. When I'm flying leisure, it's price and cert availability - no question. That's one of several TATL trips I've taken this year... and the others were paid pay-through-the-nose fares. If Envoy product was only filled with upgraders it wouldn't exist - plain and simple. It's high margin business.
I really don't know where you get this sort of thing from...
What I said was that the folks who pay the big bucks (paid premium passengers) care about arriving with a short at some sleep so they don't lose a day. That's a fact - and people *DO* pay for those seats. Even some folks I know who fly in the back are pretty commonly popping an Ambien if the flight is long enough. Thus, some folks prefer the longer flights afforded by DFW/ORD vs. JFK/PHL.
Jim
What the heck does your rant have to do with that?[/QUOTE]
Nov 15, 2013, 8:49 pm
#2214
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: High Point, NC
Programs: None
Posts: 9,171
Personally, I'd like to see them use spend as a qualifier (not just a dis qualifier). They really want to reward margin over miles or segments flown... if I spend $15-20k/yr, why do they care how many miles or segments I spent it on? It's in their interest to have it be on as few flights as possible.
Unless, of course, you'd like airlines to only offer a couple of flights/day to business destinations. That's cut out the extra spending needed to offer extra frequency.
Qualifying on spend - whatever the limits unless very low - would reward those who pay "full boat" for their tickets but almost certainly hurt those FF forced by their company or economics to but the cheapest seats available. But being a "full boat" payer that'd probably suit you - instead of a million or more soon FFs there's only be thousands.
Jim
Jim
Nov 15, 2013, 9:57 pm
#2215
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Usually in SAN or Central Europe.
Programs: AA:EXP/1MM. Accor/Radisson:Silver; HH:Gold; ICH:Plt Amb.
Posts: 22,307
As for future TATL service from CLT. There will still be flights to LHR, CDG, MAD, and FRA. If LH drops MUC, then I see the new AA picking up the route. Just because US is leaving Star, that doesn't mean a pullout from the German aviation market. Which is the largest market in Europe. In fact, the area around DUS has Germany's largest population concentration. So perhaps a CLT-DUS flight (either by AB or AA) could happen. I think in the peak season, there will be no shortage of CLT-Europe flights to choose from.
Nov 15, 2013, 10:48 pm
#2216
Join Date: Aug 2004
Programs: AA (EP), Hilton (Diamond), Marriott Bonvoy (Titanium)
Posts: 8,937
AA/US has a choice to make - it can follow in the footsteps of DL and UA in continuously screwing its customers, or dare to be different and try to bring the rest of the industry up with it.
Unfortunately, I see it as easier to sink to their levels as with more limited choice, where else are pax going to go if it's just as bad on the "competition"?
Unfortunately, I see it as easier to sink to their levels as with more limited choice, where else are pax going to go if it's just as bad on the "competition"?
There has been a LOT of discussion on what hubs the new AA will maintain, but seems to me nobody is talking about what in flight amenities the new AA will provide? For instance, is the new airline going to maintain the old AA's service levels, like more flexible meal policies, on board IFE, etc, or will it be 'downgraded' to US's service levels with regards to no IFE, meals only after 3.5 hrs, etc? I can surely live without a hub or two in the network, but I would really like to keep the on board IFE! Flying one of UA's newly upgraded planes with IFE was great, spent the whole flight playing virtual blackjack ^ Will the new AA allow me to do the same?
Nov 15, 2013, 11:00 pm
#2217
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
Programs: Oceanic Airlines Gold Elite
Posts: 20,395
If you're a low or mid elite, AA's system is bad if you want free upgrades, but is good if you want a better shot at upgrades. By making you pay with 500-mile segment instruments, they reduce the competition, meaning you're more likely to get the upgrades you really want.
Nov 16, 2013, 12:45 am
#2218
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Programs: Landry's President's Club, Marriott Silver, Awesomeness EXPLT
Posts: 20,420
US Airways has been profitable lately almost entirely because of its industry-lagging payrates, particularly the pilots and FAs. US pilots are paid less than nonunion jetblue pays its pilots. Even with the bankruptcy-induced concessions, AA's pilots and FAs still earn considerably more money than similar US Airways flight crew. Not 5% or 10% more, but 25% to 40% more (the pilots).
So when Parker offered the US pilots pay and benefit increases of $1.6 billion over six years (retroactive to Feb 13), the US pilots were eagerly onboard. The US FAs ratified big payraises earlier this year on their own, but they stand to earn a bunch more as AA FAs with the AA contract. When US offered huge payraises (and lots more shiny widebodies to far-away places than US could ever hope to acquire on its own), the US employees are understandably ecstatic about the merger.
Over at AA, Parker offered all AA employees small raises that help wipe out some of the bankruptcy concessions, and that makes AA employees very excited about the merger. On top of that, the AA CEO, Tom Horton, is viewed as the Devil by many of the AA union leaders and employees and since he's been fired by Doug Parker, many AA employees are on cloud nine.
Of course, the employees have forgotten that every merger involves some redundancies and inevitable job losses. The employees don't seem to grasp that US was profitable mostly because of its low pay and that new AA's profitability may be endangered by raising the pay of all 90,000 union employees at the new airline. AA filed for bankruptcy primarily to jam the more efficient pilot and FA contracts down the employees' throats, and along comes Parker promising to raise the labor costs of the combined airline. "Revenue synergies and cost-savings synergies" are the promised sources of all this higher employee cost. Uh, yeah. We'll revisit this in a couple of years and see how well it's worked out.
So when Parker offered the US pilots pay and benefit increases of $1.6 billion over six years (retroactive to Feb 13), the US pilots were eagerly onboard. The US FAs ratified big payraises earlier this year on their own, but they stand to earn a bunch more as AA FAs with the AA contract. When US offered huge payraises (and lots more shiny widebodies to far-away places than US could ever hope to acquire on its own), the US employees are understandably ecstatic about the merger.
Over at AA, Parker offered all AA employees small raises that help wipe out some of the bankruptcy concessions, and that makes AA employees very excited about the merger. On top of that, the AA CEO, Tom Horton, is viewed as the Devil by many of the AA union leaders and employees and since he's been fired by Doug Parker, many AA employees are on cloud nine.
Of course, the employees have forgotten that every merger involves some redundancies and inevitable job losses. The employees don't seem to grasp that US was profitable mostly because of its low pay and that new AA's profitability may be endangered by raising the pay of all 90,000 union employees at the new airline. AA filed for bankruptcy primarily to jam the more efficient pilot and FA contracts down the employees' throats, and along comes Parker promising to raise the labor costs of the combined airline. "Revenue synergies and cost-savings synergies" are the promised sources of all this higher employee cost. Uh, yeah. We'll revisit this in a couple of years and see how well it's worked out.
Cheers
Howie
Nov 16, 2013, 12:51 am
#2219
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2012
Programs: US CP ; LH FTL ; *G
Posts: 1,630
Nov 16, 2013, 1:41 am
#2220
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,774
As for future TATL service from CLT. There will still be flights to LHR, CDG, MAD, and FRA. If LH drops MUC, then I see the new AA picking up the route. Just because US is leaving Star, that doesn't mean a pullout from the German aviation market. Which is the largest market in Europe. In fact, the area around DUS has Germany's largest population concentration. So perhaps a CLT-DUS flight (either by AB or AA) could happen. I think in the peak season, there will be no shortage of CLT-Europe flights to choose from.
I would love if OW would give me a single connection option now that US is out of Star.