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US/AA merger- MASTER DISCUSSION THREAD/incl 'when will US leave STAR'

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Old Nov 12, 2013, 2:24 pm
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Last edit by: aztimm
Note:

There is an existing thread in the AA forum that may be useful to US and AA Flyertalkers:
US-AA Merger: Just the Facts thread

As facts become posted, that should be the place to look.

Merger discussion, speculation, and other questions can be directed here, or the similar thread in the AA forum:
MERGER: US and AA 9 Dec 2013 and implications for AA flyers (new)

AA - US Merger Agreement / Announcement / DOJ Action Discussion (consolidated, and now closed to new posts)
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US/AA merger- MASTER DISCUSSION THREAD/incl 'when will US leave STAR'

 
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Old Nov 14, 2013, 4:37 pm
  #2176  
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I found this story rather interesting:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/airchive...erican-merger/

Winner: Phoenix Sky Harbor
The commitment to maintain all of the pre-merger hubs is mostly a formality, except in the case (potentially) of Phoenix. Some analysts have suggested that Phoenix, which is a low yielding hub with a major competitive presence from Southwest, could get squeezed out in the combined carrier’s network by Dallas Fort Worth to the east and Los Angeles to the west. At the very least, it was certain that the current operation would have been downsized. (My projection was for about a 33% capacity reduction and a decrease in daily departures to 250 from 300, achieved by flipping the current mainline to regional ratio of 2:1) But now? We’ll see whether the commitment to maintain the Phoenix hub “consistent with historical operations” can be enforced by the DOJ. But if it can, it guarantees that Phoenix will stay as a hub for at least three more years. And the interesting undercurrent here is that Southwest’s costs are rising, which means that the competitive environment in Phoenix could be a whole lot rosier three years from now.

Loser: International Operations at Charlotte Douglas

Because the merger has gone through, much of the international operations at the Charlotte Douglas hub are rendered obsolete. The recent trans-Atlantic expansion was primarily to Star Alliance hubs, which will likely die out when US Airways moves over to one world. Most of the Caribbean flights and the flight to Rio are much better served from the much larger market of Miami. To be clear, Charlotte will not lose its hub. But its post-merger international operation will be much smaller than it is currently.
The bolded part under Phoenix is interesting; we'll see if/how the DOJ will be able to enforce the 3-year rule.
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Old Nov 14, 2013, 4:53 pm
  #2177  
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Originally Posted by aztimm
I found this story rather interesting:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/airchive...erican-merger/



The bolded part under Phoenix is interesting; we'll see if/how the DOJ will be able to enforce the 3-year rule.
Sounds self-contradictory. If DOJ is going to enforce that term of the settlement wrt PHX, wouldn't it have to enforce it wrt to CLT as well? And if it doesn't, wouldn't that give rise to claims by the losing hub against the gov't of selective and discriminatory enforcement?
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Old Nov 14, 2013, 4:57 pm
  #2178  
 
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Originally Posted by aztimm
I found this story rather interesting:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/airchive...erican-merger/



The bolded part under Phoenix is interesting; we'll see if/how the DOJ will be able to enforce the 3-year rule.
This is the key. Having gone through the dehubbing of PIT when I lived there, there were all sorts of promises to keep PIT as an important part of US, but they were empty promises indeed.

Some Yinzers on the board can help me out here, there was a news conference from Parker who tried reassure PIT that it would be safe, but he was challenged by Arlen Specter who told him "tell me this 5 years from now?" It was a heated exchange. Soon after the news conference, PIT lost all its mid-haul and long-haul services except PHX.

Last edited by radiowell; Nov 14, 2013 at 5:10 pm
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Old Nov 14, 2013, 5:09 pm
  #2179  
 
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Duplicate post.
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Old Nov 14, 2013, 7:32 pm
  #2180  
 
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Originally Posted by akelkar
The English apparently don't know how to make an airport whose terminals are physically connected to each other. MAN is the same way.
That brings up a question I've been wondering about -- any guess as to when US will likely be able to move their LHR flights over to terminal 3 with the AA flights?

I suppose I'm mostly wondering about lounge access. It looks like BA has a departure lounge that should be available once US is in OW, but I'll seriously miss having access to an arrivals lounge. Being able to get a shower after an overnight flight is a pretty important benefit for me.
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Old Nov 14, 2013, 7:51 pm
  #2181  
 
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Originally Posted by burlax
Sounds self-contradictory. If DOJ is going to enforce that term of the settlement wrt PHX, wouldn't it have to enforce it wrt to CLT as well? And if it doesn't, wouldn't that give rise to claims by the losing hub against the gov't of selective and discriminatory enforcement?
Theoretically, but how do you argue that service added during a recent expansion, for example, is "consistent with historical operations?" The deal isn't to preserve service as of the date of the settlement or merger. If DOJ cared about a particular route or set of international routes, they would have been explicitly included in the settlement terms. Instead, they went vague.

I think as long as a handful of international routes ex-CLT are maintained along with hub-scale domestic traffic, it's going to be hard to convince a court that remaining CLT traffic isn't consistent with historical operations.
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Old Nov 14, 2013, 8:02 pm
  #2182  
 
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Originally Posted by BoeingBoy
Compared to that some 20+ years ago, DFW is a walk in the park. It may not be the best located for most US FF - having to go southwest to ultimately fly past PHL on the way to LHR - but it's in a convenient location for a good chunk of the U.S.
It's also nice for TATL given that the flights are longer. My recent PHL-LHR was 5:48. You can't eat and get any meaningful sleep in that time. If you have a flight that's three hours longer you can get a quick meal and some meaningful sleep.
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Old Nov 14, 2013, 8:31 pm
  #2183  
 
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While certainly true, one must remember that most of the passenger cabin seats are filled with leisure travelers sitting in coach who aren't so worried about how much sleep they can get after eating so they'll be fresh for business upon arrival. If they're lucky some will find some empty seats together to stretch out a little better in.

For most of the passengers, the travel is a means of getting to a destination, not an experience in and of itself to be enjoyed.

Jim
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Old Nov 14, 2013, 8:41 pm
  #2184  
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Originally Posted by akelkar
The English apparently don't know how to make an airport whose terminals are physically connected to each other. MAN is the same way.
Airports in France aren't much better...
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Old Nov 14, 2013, 9:22 pm
  #2185  
 
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Originally Posted by beofotch
So What do you guys think will be my fate:
US Airways Status for 2013: Chairman
AA Status for 2013: Nothing

2013 US Airways qualifying status miles: 30,000 and 38 segments
2013 AA qualifying status miles: 1,500 and 1 segment
What status do you think I will be slotted in for January 7? For how long will it be valid until it expires?
You'll be gold for 2013 or get reciprocal benefits to AA gold if they don't combine the mileage programs fast. My guess is it will be at least six months into 2014 before the USAir mileage program ceases to exist and those miles become AA miles, even though they've bee working on this a long time.
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Old Nov 14, 2013, 9:26 pm
  #2186  
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Originally Posted by AA_EXP09
Airports in France aren't much better...
Only because French were forced to adopt English airport building standards after they lost the Battle of Bremule. . .
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Old Nov 14, 2013, 10:34 pm
  #2187  
 
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Originally Posted by skinnyb309
First off I am a *A Gold UA guy. At least I have been. I live in CLT and fly mostly domestic. I tend to average 2-3 international a year as well.

My initial question is should I take the plunge into OW for the next year or stick with *A?

More info that may help...

I kick off January 1 with a trip to BKK from CLT. I can either book it as UA (ANA) or AA (Cathay) and will get a good start on point for the year.

What should I do? Why?
you live in a hub city for what is about to be the largest airline in the world. Your choice is to connect every most every time you fly out of CLT on United, or fly nonstop out of CLT on AA/US. Gold won't yield frequent upgrades on AA (you earn a limited supply of them and will have lower priority than EXP and Plat). So you may not get many upgrades on AA, but have greater choices of nonstop and very usable AA miles (better redemptions available than UA, in my opinion). Personally I'd get everything to AA for your flights in 2014, but don't know what you value most. The fewer connections the better, for me.
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Old Nov 14, 2013, 10:40 pm
  #2188  
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Originally Posted by LovePrunes
. . . and very usable AA miles (better redemptions available than UA, in my opinion). . .
I believe this is only true for AAnytime redemptions on AA metal when compared to standard awards on UA metal. Regular redemptions including partners is much better on UA/*A.
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Old Nov 14, 2013, 11:43 pm
  #2189  
 
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Originally Posted by twa777
Quote:





Originally Posted by akelkar


The English apparently don't know how to make an airport whose terminals are physically connected to each other. MAN is the same way.




That brings up a question I've been wondering about -- any guess as to when US will likely be able to move their LHR flights over to terminal 3 with the AA flights?

I suppose I'm mostly wondering about lounge access. It looks like BA has a departure lounge that should be available once US is in OW, but I'll seriously miss having access to an arrivals lounge. Being able to get a shower after an overnight flight is a pretty important benefit for me.
AA has an arrivals lounge at Terminal 3 at LHR. On the departure side, there is a very nice BA lounge (first class and business), a Cathay lounge, and an AA Admiral's Club and Flagship Lounge.

You won't be lacking for lounge options at T3
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Old Nov 15, 2013, 4:44 am
  #2190  
 
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Originally Posted by McFlyPHL
It's also nice for TATL given that the flights are longer. My recent PHL-LHR was 5:48. You can't eat and get any meaningful sleep in that time. If you have a flight that's three hours longer you can get a quick meal and some meaningful sleep.
With an eastbound TATL flight that short, I wish airlines would offer early morning departures from the US with arrival in Europe in the evening and avoid the whole overnight experience.
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