Feb 10, 2024, 10:52 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
This is an archive thread, the active thread is Fare Class has Inventory - Not Able to Book into?
Common issue
Expert Mode shows ..... T9, L9, K9, G9, N9 but you not able to get united.com or other sites to provide a fare for N or G or .... WHY?
There are three requirements to be able to book a fare class
1) there needs to be a fare rule for that fare class for your O/D.
2) you need to meet all the requirements for the fare rule -- advance purchase, days of the week, min stay, qualified flight numbers, qualified routing (including a possible RT requirement), .....
3) there needs to be inventory in the fare class
So if the cheapest fare rule filed is K, you will not be able to book N or G
Even if a fare rule is filed and there is inventory then you still need to meet the fare rule requirements.
As for searching, if multiple fares qualify, the cheapest will be displayed unless you specifically force a fare class. While the fare hierarchy will generally match the cost, occasionally a high fare class will be cheaper than a lower fare class due to differences in fare flexibility such as refundable, changeability, ....
So there are multiple reasons for why a specific fare class is and not is offered. Confusion on this is one reason UA has been reluctant to make fare class inventory easily available and the reason UA requires one to accept the following terms before providing access to Expert Mode:
How can you see the fare rules?
While booking (on the first "Review trip itin" page) and after booking (on the online view of the reservation) , UA will makes them available -- but this is only if UA will display that particular fare.
Before booking or if unable to get access on UA, there are paid services -- KVS, Expert Flyer. ... can provide access to all published fare rules.
Related threads
Decoding the alphabet soup - New fare buckets for UA
How to get a P class fare to Europe?
Understanding Airline Inventory (non FT blog posting)
Desired Fare Class is available but has insufficient space, what can be done?
Common issue
Expert Mode shows ..... T9, L9, K9, G9, N9 but you not able to get united.com or other sites to provide a fare for N or G or .... WHY?
There are three requirements to be able to book a fare class
1) there needs to be a fare rule for that fare class for your O/D.
2) you need to meet all the requirements for the fare rule -- advance purchase, days of the week, min stay, qualified flight numbers, qualified routing (including a possible RT requirement), .....
3) there needs to be inventory in the fare class
So if the cheapest fare rule filed is K, you will not be able to book N or G
Even if a fare rule is filed and there is inventory then you still need to meet the fare rule requirements.
As for searching, if multiple fares qualify, the cheapest will be displayed unless you specifically force a fare class. While the fare hierarchy will generally match the cost, occasionally a high fare class will be cheaper than a lower fare class due to differences in fare flexibility such as refundable, changeability, ....
So there are multiple reasons for why a specific fare class is and not is offered. Confusion on this is one reason UA has been reluctant to make fare class inventory easily available and the reason UA requires one to accept the following terms before providing access to Expert Mode:
This is not a forecasting tool. Availability levels in certain fare classes should not be interpreted as indicating that we will make other fare classes available.
The presence of a particular fare class does not mean that there is a fare associated with it. For example, we may offer availability in a discounted fare class, but that does not necessarily mean we have published a fare that corresponds to it.
The presence of a particular fare class does not mean that there is a fare associated with it. For example, we may offer availability in a discounted fare class, but that does not necessarily mean we have published a fare that corresponds to it.
While booking (on the first "Review trip itin" page) and after booking (on the online view of the reservation) , UA will makes them available -- but this is only if UA will display that particular fare.
Before booking or if unable to get access on UA, there are paid services -- KVS, Expert Flyer. ... can provide access to all published fare rules.
Related threads
Decoding the alphabet soup - New fare buckets for UA
How to get a P class fare to Europe?
Understanding Airline Inventory (non FT blog posting)
Desired Fare Class is available but has insufficient space, what can be done?
Fare Class has Inventory - Not Able to Book into? {Archive]
Dec 29, 2018, 10:36 am
#271
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Houston
Programs: UA Plat, Marriott Gold
Posts: 12,694
Reference the text you agreed to when enabling expert mode for the explanation:
(bolding in original)
For your selected flights/dates/etc, there is no currently eligible P or Z fare published. There may be P or Z fares for other markets that connect through Houston, or it may be unusable inventory.
The presence of a particular fare class does not mean that there is a fare associated with it. For example, we may offer availability in a discounted fare class, but that does not necessarily mean we have published a fare that corresponds to it.
For your selected flights/dates/etc, there is no currently eligible P or Z fare published. There may be P or Z fares for other markets that connect through Houston, or it may be unusable inventory.
Dec 29, 2018, 10:42 am
#272
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.997MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,859
Easiest way is to call and ask what the fare restrictions are. Or purchase a subscription service that provides access to fare rules.
Dec 29, 2018, 10:45 am
#273
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,115
If you can give a concrete example, including exact dates, times and flight numbers, where you see Z but can't book it, we can try to find the reason.
Dec 29, 2018, 10:49 am
#274
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SFO/SJC
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott Gold, Hilton Gold
Posts: 14,891
Dec 29, 2018, 10:54 am
#275
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.997MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,859
Are you booking a round trip or one-way?
UA discount fares for IAH-CDG all require RT
An example P fare rule,PNX66SNC, for your timeframe and route (IAH-CDG) is
UA discount fares for IAH-CDG all require RT
An example P fare rule,PNX66SNC, for your timeframe and route (IAH-CDG) is
ADVANCE RESERVATIONS/TICKETING
CONFIRMED RESERVATIONS FOR ALL SECTORS ARE REQUIRED AT
LEAST 60 DAYS BEFORE DEPARTURE.
WAITLIST NOT PERMITTED.
TICKETING MUST BE COMPLETED WITHIN 72 HOURS AFTER
RESERVATIONS ARE MADE OR AT LEAST 60 DAYS BEFORE
DEPARTURE WHICHEVER IS EARLIER.
MINIMUM STAY TRAVEL FROM TURNAROUND MUST COMMENCE NO EARLIER THAN
THE FIRST SUN AFTER ARRIVAL AT THE TURNAROUND.
AND - TRAVEL FROM TURNAROUND MUST COMMENCE NO EARLIER
THAN 24 HOURS AFTER ARRIVAL AT THE TURNAROUND.
MAXIMUM STAY TRAVEL FROM LAST STOPOVER MUST COMMENCE NO LATER THAN
3 MONTHS AFTER DEPARTURE FROM FARE ORIGIN.
CONFIRMED RESERVATIONS FOR ALL SECTORS ARE REQUIRED AT
LEAST 60 DAYS BEFORE DEPARTURE.
WAITLIST NOT PERMITTED.
TICKETING MUST BE COMPLETED WITHIN 72 HOURS AFTER
RESERVATIONS ARE MADE OR AT LEAST 60 DAYS BEFORE
DEPARTURE WHICHEVER IS EARLIER.
MINIMUM STAY TRAVEL FROM TURNAROUND MUST COMMENCE NO EARLIER THAN
THE FIRST SUN AFTER ARRIVAL AT THE TURNAROUND.
AND - TRAVEL FROM TURNAROUND MUST COMMENCE NO EARLIER
THAN 24 HOURS AFTER ARRIVAL AT THE TURNAROUND.
MAXIMUM STAY TRAVEL FROM LAST STOPOVER MUST COMMENCE NO LATER THAN
3 MONTHS AFTER DEPARTURE FROM FARE ORIGIN.
Dec 29, 2018, 10:57 am
#276
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Honolulu Harbor
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 15,029
edit: just looked at SAT and DFW - both come back at $7800 mid-February w/ 7 days, weekend stay. So there is non-stop IAH premium. Mid-February is also not far enough out to qualify for the better J area.
I can fly HNL-CDG, lie-flat all the way to/from, for $4200, purchase 90 days out.
Last edited by IAH-OIL-TRASH; Dec 29, 2018 at 11:13 am
Dec 29, 2018, 12:05 pm
#277
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PM, UA Gold, WN, Global Entry; +others wherever miles/points are found
Posts: 14,424
The first two P fares have a very tight seasonal restriction [1], and the PQ- fares have the summer seasonality [2]. All of the usual Z fares are available starting at a 60-day AP, plus some mildly decent P fares if you fly on the correct days. If you are purchasing with less than a 60-day AP, then yes you will pay a lot!
Code:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cxr Basis BC Cbn Price Tp AP Min Max Days Rf
----------------------------------------------------------------------
UA PNA76SNC P J $751.00 RT 7 S 12M N
UA PNA26SNC P J $851.00 RT 21 S 12M N
UA PQX96SNC P J $1,172.50 RT 90 S 3M -X- N
UA PNX66SNC P J $1,315.00 RT 60 S 3M [3] N
UA PQW96SNC P J $1,322.50 RT 90 S 3M -W- N
UA PNX67SNC P J $1,465.00 RT 60 7 3M [3] N
UA ZNX96ENC Z J $1,675.00 RT 90 S 12M -X- N
UA ZNW96ENC Z J $1,825.00 RT 90 S 12M -W- N
UA ZNX61ENC Z J $1,925.00 RT 60 10 12M -X- N
UA ZNW61ENC Z J $2,075.00 RT 60 10 12M -W- N
UA ZNX67ENC Z J $2,075.00 RT 60 7 12M -X- N
UA ZNW67ENC Z J $2,225.00 RT 60 7 12M -W- N
UA ZNX96ERC Z J $2,175.00 RT 90 S 12M -X- 500
UA ZNW96ERC Z J $2,325.00 RT 90 S 12M -W- 500
UA ZNX61ERC Z J $2,425.00 RT 60 10 12M -X- 500
UA ZNW61ERC Z J $2,575.00 RT 60 10 12M -W- 500
UA ZNX67ERC Z J $2,575.00 RT 60 7 12M -X- 500
UA DNW67ERC D J $2,725.00 RT 60 7 12M -W- 500
UA DNX86ERC D J $4,108.50 RT 28 S 12M -X- 500
UA DNW86ERC D J $4,258.50 RT 28 S 12M -W- 500
UA DNA86ERC D J $4,558.50 RT 28 S 12M 500
UA DNX46ERC D J $4,558.50 RT 14 S 12M -X- 500
UA DNW46ERC D J $4,708.50 RT 14 S 12M -W- 500
UA DNA06ERC D J $5,018.00 RT S 12M 500
UA DNA40ERC D J $5,018.00 RT 14 12h 12M 500
UA DNA00ERC D J $5,341.00 RT 12h 12M 500
UA QRC0UPE D J $5,341.50 RT 7 10 12M 500
UA CNX76ERC C J $5,444.00 RT 7 S 12M -X- 500
UA CXRC7E C J $5,444.50 RT 7 S 12M -X- 500
UA CNW76ERC C J $5,547.00 RT 7 S 12M -W- 500
UA CWRC7E C J $5,547.50 RT 7 S 12M -W- 500
UA CNA00ERC C J $6,291.00 RT 12h 12M 500
UA C0RC0E C J $6,291.50 RT 12h 12M 500
UA DNA20EFF D J $5,326.00 RT 21 12h 12M Y
UA CNA00EFF D J $6,291.00 RT 12h 12M Y
UA CR2E C J $6,291.50 RT Y
UA CNY00EFF C J $8,096.00 OW Y
UA C2E C J $8,097.00 OW Y
UA JXR1 J J $8,276.00 RT 12M -X- Y
UA JWR1 J J $8,276.00 RT 12M [4] Y
UA JAR1 J J $8,526.00 RT 12M Y
UA JX1 J J $10,614.00 OW -X- Y
UA JW1 J J $10,614.00 OW [4] Y
UA JA1 J J $10,864.00 OW Y
[1]
OUTBOUND -
PERMITTED 23DEC18 THROUGH 25DEC18 OR 27DEC18 THROUGH
03JAN19 OR ON 06JAN19 OR 14APR19 THROUGH 21APR19 OR
25MAY19 THROUGH 29MAY19 OR 01JUL19 THROUGH 07JUL19
OR 31AUG19 THROUGH 02SEP19 OR 24NOV19 THROUGH
30NOV19 OR 19DEC19 THROUGH 05JAN20
INBOUND -
OR 23DEC18 THROUGH 03JAN19 OR ON 06JAN19 OR 21APR19
THROUGH 04MAY19 OR 25MAY19 THROUGH 01JUN19 OR
01JUL19 THROUGH 07JUL19 OR 24NOV19 THROUGH 30NOV19
OR 21DEC19 THROUGH 04JAN20 FOR EACH TRANSATLANTIC
SECTOR. SEASON IS BASED ON TRIP DATE.
[2]
OUTBOUND -
PERMITTED 30JUN19 THROUGH 05SEP19 FOR EACH
TRANSATLANTIC SECTOR. SEASON IS BASED ON TRIP DATE.
INBOUND -
PERMITTED 07AUG19 THROUGH 06SEP19 FOR EACH
TRANSATLANTIC SECTOR. SEASON IS BASED ON TRIP DATE.
[3]
OUTBOUND -
PERMITTED MON THROUGH WED ON EACH TRANSATLANTIC
SECTOR.
INBOUND -
PERMITTED TUE THROUGH THU ON EACH TRANSATLANTIC
SECTOR.
[4]
FROM UNITED STATES -
PERMITTED MON/SAT ON EACH TRANSATLANTIC SECTOR.
TO UNITED STATES -
PERMITTED SAT ON EACH TRANSATLANTIC SECTOR.
[LETTER TEMPLATE RULES]
-X-
FROM UNITED STATES -
PERMITTED TUE THROUGH FRI ON EACH TRANSATLANTIC
SECTOR.
TO UNITED STATES -
PERMITTED SUN THROUGH THU ON EACH TRANSATLANTIC
SECTOR.
-W-
FROM UNITED STATES -
PERMITTED SAT THROUGH MON ON EACH TRANSATLANTIC
SECTOR.
TO UNITED STATES -
PERMITTED FRI THROUGH SAT ON EACH TRANSATLANTIC
SECTOR.
Feb 15, 2019, 7:39 pm
#278
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: EWR
Programs: United GS, Marriott Titanium, Hertz PC
Posts: 37
Looking for advice for an upcoming trip. I’m on an L fare for an upcoming EWR > FRA flight. I called the premier desk tonight to inquire about upgrading my fare so I can use a GPU. They only offered U fare but I see other upgradable fares available. Any advise on when/if others will open up or what my approach should be? Thanks!
Feb 15, 2019, 10:34 pm
#279
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,419
Looking for advice for an upcoming trip. I’m on an L fare for an upcoming EWR > FRA flight. I called the premier desk tonight to inquire about upgrading my fare so I can use a GPU. They only offered U fare but I see other upgradable fares available. Any advise on when/if others will open up or what my approach should be? Thanks!
Feb 16, 2019, 7:26 am
#280
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,419
Yes, I'm referring to inventory buckets (sorry, for the confusion). It's a round trip EWR > FRA (and back), departing on 3/17 on UA960. I was hoping to buy up to W, for example, so I can apply a GPU but the only fare available currently is U. From experience, will others open up between now and then that will be less expensive?
UA currently has an unusual fare structure published for EWR-FRA. There are K and L fares published with a 12-hour minimum stay. However, the next fare up without a lengthy minimum stay -- after some Premium Economy fares that you won't be able to use because UA isn't offering PE for travel on 3/17 -- is the U fare you're seeing. The W, V, Q, and H fares all require either a seven-day stay or a Saturday-night stay.
So, to answer your question -- it's possible that UA will publish a new W fare without a minimum stay. However, I spot-checked a couple of days in the past year, and it looks like this is a pretty standard restriction for the W fares on that route. I'm actually surprised that the K and L fares are available for a short stay -- UA likes minimum stay requirements to try to distinguish business travelers from leisure travelers). So, I wouldn't imagine that it's likely.
That said, there's no PZ inventory available for your travel date, so you'd be waitlisted. I don't know what your existing ticket is, but the current up-fare looks like about $200 in each direction, and it's non-refundable if your upgrade doesn't clear. Your chance of clearing an upgrade on a Sunday night isn't particularly great anyway; although the flight's only booked 12/39 right now, there's a good chance that (a) there are other customers waiting to upgrade already, and (b) they'll sell quite a few more of those seats, as most business class seats are sold within a couple of weeks of departure.
Your alternative would be to waitlist a miles + copay upgrade for $550 + 20K miles in each direction. While the total cash is higher than the W fare would be, it's likely lower than the U fare, and you get the copay back if it doesn't clear. Otherwise, keep searching united.com by fare class for your dates (it's in the advanced search) and see if you see a W fare appear, but I don't think it's likely.
Good luck!
Feb 16, 2019, 7:39 am
#281
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: EWR
Programs: United GS, Marriott Titanium, Hertz PC
Posts: 37
Let me guess -- you're traveling for less than a week?
UA currently has an unusual fare structure published for EWR-FRA. There are K and L fares published with a 12-hour minimum stay. However, the next fare up without a lengthy minimum stay -- after some Premium Economy fares that you won't be able to use because UA isn't offering PE for travel on 3/17 -- is the U fare you're seeing. The W, V, Q, and H fares all require either a seven-day stay or a Saturday-night stay.
So, to answer your question -- it's possible that UA will publish a new W fare without a minimum stay. However, I spot-checked a couple of days in the past year, and it looks like this is a pretty standard restriction for the W fares on that route. I'm actually surprised that the K and L fares are available for a short stay -- UA likes minimum stay requirements to try to distinguish business travelers from leisure travelers). So, I wouldn't imagine that it's likely.
That said, there's no PZ inventory available for your travel date, so you'd be waitlisted. I don't know what your existing ticket is, but the current up-fare looks like about $200 in each direction, and it's non-refundable if your upgrade doesn't clear. Your chance of clearing an upgrade on a Sunday night isn't particularly great anyway; although the flight's only booked 12/39 right now, there's a good chance that (a) there are other customers waiting to upgrade already, and (b) they'll sell quite a few more of those seats, as most business class seats are sold within a couple of weeks of departure.
Your alternative would be to waitlist a miles + copay upgrade for $550 + 20K miles in each direction. While the total cash is higher than the W fare would be, it's likely lower than the U fare, and you get the copay back if it doesn't clear. Otherwise, keep searching united.com by fare class for your dates (it's in the advanced search) and see if you see a W fare appear, but I don't think it's likely.
Good luck!
UA currently has an unusual fare structure published for EWR-FRA. There are K and L fares published with a 12-hour minimum stay. However, the next fare up without a lengthy minimum stay -- after some Premium Economy fares that you won't be able to use because UA isn't offering PE for travel on 3/17 -- is the U fare you're seeing. The W, V, Q, and H fares all require either a seven-day stay or a Saturday-night stay.
So, to answer your question -- it's possible that UA will publish a new W fare without a minimum stay. However, I spot-checked a couple of days in the past year, and it looks like this is a pretty standard restriction for the W fares on that route. I'm actually surprised that the K and L fares are available for a short stay -- UA likes minimum stay requirements to try to distinguish business travelers from leisure travelers). So, I wouldn't imagine that it's likely.
That said, there's no PZ inventory available for your travel date, so you'd be waitlisted. I don't know what your existing ticket is, but the current up-fare looks like about $200 in each direction, and it's non-refundable if your upgrade doesn't clear. Your chance of clearing an upgrade on a Sunday night isn't particularly great anyway; although the flight's only booked 12/39 right now, there's a good chance that (a) there are other customers waiting to upgrade already, and (b) they'll sell quite a few more of those seats, as most business class seats are sold within a couple of weeks of departure.
Your alternative would be to waitlist a miles + copay upgrade for $550 + 20K miles in each direction. While the total cash is higher than the W fare would be, it's likely lower than the U fare, and you get the copay back if it doesn't clear. Otherwise, keep searching united.com by fare class for your dates (it's in the advanced search) and see if you see a W fare appear, but I don't think it's likely.
Good luck!
thanks again!
Feb 16, 2019, 7:44 am
#282
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Location: Honolulu Harbor
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 15,029
Feb 16, 2019, 7:51 am
#283
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: EWR
Programs: United GS, Marriott Titanium, Hertz PC
Posts: 37
Feb 16, 2019, 8:24 am
#284
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Honolulu Harbor
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 15,029
Feb 16, 2019, 10:38 am
#285
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PM, UA Gold, WN, Global Entry; +others wherever miles/points are found
Posts: 14,424
I didn't look, but it's one of the more common responses to competition that published a low fare with no restrictions (often ULCC competition).