May 29, 2017, 1:21 pm
Last edit by: kirkwoodj
Check the current status of aircraft reconfigured (or delivered) with new Polaris seats: http://view.ceros.com/united/polaris...-desktop-4/p/3.
A Polaris Update and Polaris Mod Schedule to indicate the status of specific aircraft are maintained by those that manage the United Airlines Fleet Website.
Except for 773- and 781-operated flights, and those markets selling Premium Plus, Polaris-equipped planes have not been allocated to specific routes. You won't know until approx. 36-48 hours before departure if you'll have a newly reconfigured aircraft, and even then, it may be replaced with a non-retrofitted aircraft.
777-300ER - All 22 aircraft have Polaris (60 seats) and installation of Premium Plus cabins (24 seats) is complete.
767-300ER - As of September 2020, 31 of the 38 aircraft have been reconfigured with the Polaris seats.
- Retrofit is from 3-cabin to 2-cabin with direct-aisle-access seats. No 3-cabin 767s remain in service.
- 76A configuration is 30J/50Y+/134Y, total of 214; fleet to consist of 17 ships (former 3-cabin 767s).
- 76L configuration is 46J/22PE/47Y+/52Y; fleet to consist of 21 ships (18 former 2-cabin 76C and 3 used ships from Hawaiian).
767-400ER - [16 aircraft] None updated yet; modifications put on hold due to Covid-19.
777-200ER - As of September 2020, 46 of the 50 aircraft have been reconfigured with Polaris and Premium Plus seats.
- Configuration is 50 Polaris seats, 32 in the front cabin and 18 in the second cabin (behind 2L/R)
- Configuration is 10 across in economy, with 24 Premium Plus seats, 4686 E+ seats and 156 E seats, with E+ in front economy cabin plus exit rows and bulkhead at 3L/R, i.e., almost the same as current pmCO planes, except with 4 seats in middle section.
- Seat map (v5) on united.com
787-8, 787-9 - As of November 2022, all 787-8/9 are converted or in mod. No chance of flying old configuration anymore.
- 788 configuration has 28 Polaris seats (20 in front cabin, 8 in rear mini-cabin), and 21 Premium Plus seats (2-3-2).
- 789 configuration has 48 Polaris seats (32 in front cabin, 16 in rear mini-cabin), and 21 Premium Plus seats (2-3-2).
787-10 - 13 787-10s have been delivered in 2020. All come with Polaris and Premium Plus cabins factory-installed. Another 19 should be added by 2024.
FAQ:
Q: Does a Polaris ticket mean the aircraft has the new Polaris seat?
A: No, Polaris is the label UA uses for long haul international business class. It is also the label UA uses for the new seats, so this does create some confusion.
All the 773s and 787-10s are 100% the new seat.
The rest of the long haul fleet in various stages of conversion, see http://view.ceros.com/united/polaris...-desktop-4/p/3
Q: How to tell if my aircraft is the new style Polaris seats?
A: If the unassigned business class section is showing orange seats or all the seats are side-by-side or there is a section for 4 adjacent seats in the middle, this is an old style lie-flat aircreaft
If the unassigned bussines class seats are dark blue seats or the all the seats appear to have direct aisle access, then you aircraft is the new Polaris seat.
You can also look at the FT maintained, United Fleet Site and crosscheck the tail number or check thePolaris Update tab
Q: How to tell if my aircraft has the new PremiumPlus (PP) / Premium Economy seats?
A: If the unassigned seats just behind business class are purple seats or the aircraft is 773 or 787-10, then yes. However, the purple color seat will only show on routes where PP is being sold.
Aircraft with PP seats are being used on some routes but are not being sold as PP. In those cases, the seats are considered to be a part of E+. In those cases, an indicator of PP sold as E+ will be if the first few rows of economy, there are just 2 seats on the sides (with the rest of E+ showing 3 seats).
Q: Will the aircraft I see at booking be the same configuration at flight time?
A: Unfortunately with the fleet in transit, aircraft swaps happen. UA tends to use placeholders until 2 days before travel and even after that last minute swaps do happen.
Q: My flight seat map shows 772 with polaris seats is it a retrofit?
A: Possibly. The flight status page shows the most accurate scheduled aircraft. If a 77W is swapped in, it will list the aircraft as 777-300ER. However, if the 772's seatmap shows blue rectangular boxes in the business class cabin instead of orange "pointy rounds", this would indicate that a retrofit aircraft has been swapped.
See also: United Future/Changed Routes w/ Polaris seats
A Polaris Update and Polaris Mod Schedule to indicate the status of specific aircraft are maintained by those that manage the United Airlines Fleet Website.
Except for 773- and 781-operated flights, and those markets selling Premium Plus, Polaris-equipped planes have not been allocated to specific routes. You won't know until approx. 36-48 hours before departure if you'll have a newly reconfigured aircraft, and even then, it may be replaced with a non-retrofitted aircraft.
777-300ER - All 22 aircraft have Polaris (60 seats) and installation of Premium Plus cabins (24 seats) is complete.
767-300ER - As of September 2020, 31 of the 38 aircraft have been reconfigured with the Polaris seats.
- Retrofit is from 3-cabin to 2-cabin with direct-aisle-access seats. No 3-cabin 767s remain in service.
- 76A configuration is 30J/50Y+/134Y, total of 214; fleet to consist of 17 ships (former 3-cabin 767s).
- 76L configuration is 46J/22PE/47Y+/52Y; fleet to consist of 21 ships (18 former 2-cabin 76C and 3 used ships from Hawaiian).
767-400ER - [16 aircraft] None updated yet; modifications put on hold due to Covid-19.
777-200ER - As of September 2020, 46 of the 50 aircraft have been reconfigured with Polaris and Premium Plus seats.
- Configuration is 50 Polaris seats, 32 in the front cabin and 18 in the second cabin (behind 2L/R)
- Configuration is 10 across in economy, with 24 Premium Plus seats, 46
- Seat map (v5) on united.com
787-8, 787-9 - As of November 2022, all 787-8/9 are converted or in mod. No chance of flying old configuration anymore.
- 788 configuration has 28 Polaris seats (20 in front cabin, 8 in rear mini-cabin), and 21 Premium Plus seats (2-3-2).
- 789 configuration has 48 Polaris seats (32 in front cabin, 16 in rear mini-cabin), and 21 Premium Plus seats (2-3-2).
787-10 - 13 787-10s have been delivered in 2020. All come with Polaris and Premium Plus cabins factory-installed. Another 19 should be added by 2024.
FAQ:
Q: Does a Polaris ticket mean the aircraft has the new Polaris seat?
A: No, Polaris is the label UA uses for long haul international business class. It is also the label UA uses for the new seats, so this does create some confusion.
All the 773s and 787-10s are 100% the new seat.
The rest of the long haul fleet in various stages of conversion, see http://view.ceros.com/united/polaris...-desktop-4/p/3
Q: How to tell if my aircraft is the new style Polaris seats?
A: If the unassigned business class section is showing orange seats or all the seats are side-by-side or there is a section for 4 adjacent seats in the middle, this is an old style lie-flat aircreaft
If the unassigned bussines class seats are dark blue seats or the all the seats appear to have direct aisle access, then you aircraft is the new Polaris seat.
You can also look at the FT maintained, United Fleet Site and crosscheck the tail number or check thePolaris Update tab
Q: How to tell if my aircraft has the new PremiumPlus (PP) / Premium Economy seats?
A: If the unassigned seats just behind business class are purple seats or the aircraft is 773 or 787-10, then yes. However, the purple color seat will only show on routes where PP is being sold.
Aircraft with PP seats are being used on some routes but are not being sold as PP. In those cases, the seats are considered to be a part of E+. In those cases, an indicator of PP sold as E+ will be if the first few rows of economy, there are just 2 seats on the sides (with the rest of E+ showing 3 seats).
Q: Will the aircraft I see at booking be the same configuration at flight time?
A: Unfortunately with the fleet in transit, aircraft swaps happen. UA tends to use placeholders until 2 days before travel and even after that last minute swaps do happen.
Q: My flight seat map shows 772 with polaris seats is it a retrofit?
A: Possibly. The flight status page shows the most accurate scheduled aircraft. If a 77W is swapped in, it will list the aircraft as 777-300ER. However, if the 772's seatmap shows blue rectangular boxes in the business class cabin instead of orange "pointy rounds", this would indicate that a retrofit aircraft has been swapped.
See also: United Future/Changed Routes w/ Polaris seats
✨ Polaris (& PP) Retrofits: Schedule, ....
Feb 18, 2017, 8:40 pm
#106
Join Date: Feb 2015
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 957
On those two routes, imagine it'll be almost completely paid J.
Feb 18, 2017, 10:47 pm
#107
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Delaware
Programs: UA Mileage Plus, Amtrak Guest Rewards
Posts: 1,393
I can't quote where I heard this, but I heard that 90/91 (the red eye flights) will be the first of the two flights to get the 77W, so if you're looking to increase your chances of getting the shiny young bird, go for those flights.
Feb 20, 2017, 6:10 pm
#108
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: SJC / DPS
Programs: AS G75K, UA Silver
Posts: 1,757
Just had a thought, but when the retrofits commence, will there be any 'guaranteed' new seating on specific routes other than the 777-300ER?
I believe pmCO did this with some routes (EWR-LHR?) when they started their flat-bed conversions.
Or will it be complete roulette based on the nature of how these retrofitted birds rotate through the system?
I believe pmCO did this with some routes (EWR-LHR?) when they started their flat-bed conversions.
Or will it be complete roulette based on the nature of how these retrofitted birds rotate through the system?
Mar 6, 2017, 3:29 pm
#109
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: SFO
Programs: UAMP Global Services, AA Platinum
Posts: 89
1-2-1 vs. 2-4-2
. It's interesting to read the people here who bash the product and have never flown it.My seat was great, ample length width, and I am 6' 4", 220 lbs. Seat is very private, finishes are quite nice, and side table and storage bin are particularly well located and convenient. Sturdy dinner tray and arm pull atop video screen convey quality. Overall cabin ambiance is attractive, but appears dense because of the tall separations between seats.
But Polaris seems to be tale of two seats: The angled seats, in the even rows, seam more cramped and more exposed. Side table is less conveniently located, and the one window is almost behind you over the shoulder. Definitely aim for the straight-facing seats in the odd rows.
Mar 6, 2017, 5:36 pm
#110
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: SFO
Programs: UAMP Global Services, AA Platinum
Posts: 89
1-2-1 vs. 2-4-2 debate ... this misses the point
I've been wondering about the back and forth about 1-2-1 vs 2-4-2 seating in Polaris, and my impression after flying the product last night is that it is definitely closer to a 1-2-1 set up.
But I'm also more convinced that the 1-2-1 vs. 2-4-2 debate misses the point. With the continuing proliferation of different direct-aisle set ups (herringbone, reverse herringbone, Vantage and Stelia-Solystis staggered layouts, and now the Polaris-Acumen combo), what matters to me is "How many seats is each airline positioning in a comparable footprint?"
If we take the area between Doors 1 and 2 as a comparison, I've captured seat counts for various airlines below. This reflects only seats within the section between Doors 1 to 2, and I've included only 777-300 configurations which have business class seats only in this section. I've noted whether there are closets and restrooms are included in the configuration, as these also impact potential/realized density.
Direct-aisle access products:
I'm sure I've missed some configurations worthy of inclusion in this list. I've excluded American, ANA, JAL, Air France, Singapore and BA, because they have only mixed first-biz configurations up front in their 777-300s. Similarly, Delta has business only configuration between Doors 1 and 2 but they fly only 777-200s. (Although I'm not sure there a difference between the -300 and -200 in terms of the cabin length between Doors 1 and 2...)
I know this is quite geeky, but it satisfied my curiosity about the actual density vs. people perceptions from a seat map.
But I'm also more convinced that the 1-2-1 vs. 2-4-2 debate misses the point. With the continuing proliferation of different direct-aisle set ups (herringbone, reverse herringbone, Vantage and Stelia-Solystis staggered layouts, and now the Polaris-Acumen combo), what matters to me is "How many seats is each airline positioning in a comparable footprint?"
If we take the area between Doors 1 and 2 as a comparison, I've captured seat counts for various airlines below. This reflects only seats within the section between Doors 1 to 2, and I've included only 777-300 configurations which have business class seats only in this section. I've noted whether there are closets and restrooms are included in the configuration, as these also impact potential/realized density.
Direct-aisle access products:
- United Polaris: 28 seats (Acumen combo straight, angled product) and no closet or restrooms between Doors 1 and 2
- Air Canada: 26 seats (Cirrus reverse herringbone), plus two closets just aft of Doors 1R, 1L
- Cathay: 26 seats (reverse herringbone ), plus two closets just aft of Doors 1R, 1L
- China Airlines: 24 seats (reverse herringbone), plus two restrooms just ahead of Doors 2R, 2L
- Air New Zealand: 28 seats (traditional Contour herringbone), plus two closets just aft of Doors 1R, 1L
- Virgin Australia: 24 seats (new traditional herringbone), plus two restrooms just ahead of Doors 2R, 2L
- Etihad: 28 seats (Solystis staggered), no closet or restrooms between doors 1 and 2
- Thai: 24 seats (Solystis staggered), plus two restrooms just ahead of Doors 2R, 2L
- Qatar: 24 seats (2-2-2), with two additional catering stations ahead of Doors 2R, 2L
- Emirates: 35 seats (2-3-2) plus two additional restrooms, just ahead of Doors 2R, 2L
- Turkish: 35 seats (2-3-2) plus two additional restrooms, just ahead of Doors 2R, 2L
I'm sure I've missed some configurations worthy of inclusion in this list. I've excluded American, ANA, JAL, Air France, Singapore and BA, because they have only mixed first-biz configurations up front in their 777-300s. Similarly, Delta has business only configuration between Doors 1 and 2 but they fly only 777-200s. (Although I'm not sure there a difference between the -300 and -200 in terms of the cabin length between Doors 1 and 2...)
I know this is quite geeky, but it satisfied my curiosity about the actual density vs. people perceptions from a seat map.
Last edited by jcacciotti; Mar 6, 2017 at 5:41 pm
Mar 6, 2017, 6:25 pm
#111
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: SFO/SJC
Programs: UA 1K & 2MM, Bonvoy Titanium & LTP, HH Gold, Accor Silver, Hertz PC, Avis PC
Posts: 2,350
Great data set - more meaningful than arbitrary numeric layout descriptors. In fact what I really care about is bed length, knee-room, footwell height and width, and shoulder width in that order. That'd be the ideal set of figures to have.
One catch though - your comparison implies that EY and UA have similar density, but I think on EY the galleys are further back, whereas on UA the centre galley is in front of door 2. Equivalently set up, I suspect you'd get 30, or even 32 of the Polaris seats in the same place that EY gets 28. Not sure this makes the UA seat any worse, versus just more efficiently laid out.
I actually think the QR comparison is instructive - overall, it's a similar amount of galley space taken up, but despite the 2-2-2 configuration, they only squeeze in 24 seats. No surprise that it's one of the best business class rides out there.
One catch though - your comparison implies that EY and UA have similar density, but I think on EY the galleys are further back, whereas on UA the centre galley is in front of door 2. Equivalently set up, I suspect you'd get 30, or even 32 of the Polaris seats in the same place that EY gets 28. Not sure this makes the UA seat any worse, versus just more efficiently laid out.
I actually think the QR comparison is instructive - overall, it's a similar amount of galley space taken up, but despite the 2-2-2 configuration, they only squeeze in 24 seats. No surprise that it's one of the best business class rides out there.
Mar 15, 2017, 8:27 am
#112
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: NYC (Primarily EWR)
Programs: UA 1K / *G, Marriott Bonvoy Gold; Avis PC
Posts: 9,005
In UA's deck for an industry conference today, it mentions that Polaris-configured 772s start entering service in Q1 2018, and that SFO and EWR Polaris lounges will be open in Q4 this year.
Mar 15, 2017, 8:48 am
#113
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York, NY
Programs: UA, AA, DL, Hertz, Avis, National, Hyatt, Hilton, SPG, Marriott
Posts: 9,452
Reportedly, Zodiac has been slow (but well within contractual limits) in delivering Polaris 777 shipsets. Completed 77W frames are sitting around waiting PAE for seats. I believe the pace of 77W service entry is proceeding as planned, and the issue is that Boeing can build airplanes faster than Zodiac can deliver seats.
Word is out that internal A350 induction work is on hold, too, but I don't have a reliable source for that information.
Mar 15, 2017, 9:09 am
#114
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Francisco/Tel Aviv/YYZ
Programs: CO 1K-MM
Posts: 10,762
I suspect the 33 IPTE 777s are the first to go Polaris.
As for the 767s, I think they probably are waiting to figure out their replacement strategy to decide if its worth it to do the reconfig.
As for the 767s, I think they probably are waiting to figure out their replacement strategy to decide if its worth it to do the reconfig.
Mar 15, 2017, 10:55 am
#115
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 141
Mar 15, 2017, 3:12 pm
#116
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
Posts: 6,526
I can see holding up on the 763s, but is the A350 on hold because UA is not taking the A/C, or because they are looking at a different seat for a narrower cabin layout? Very different things...
Mar 15, 2017, 3:32 pm
#117
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: ATL
Programs: DL DM 1.77MM, Marriott LT Plat
Posts: 2,786
It appears that there are some delays due to Zodiac which are causing delays in the 763 and 772 retrofits: https://skift.com/2017/03/15/united-...-manufacturer/. Makes sense that the 772s, which will stick around longer, would get priority on the new seats.
Mar 15, 2017, 3:41 pm
#118
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York, NY
Programs: UA, AA, DL, Hertz, Avis, National, Hyatt, Hilton, SPG, Marriott
Posts: 9,452
Rumor has it this management team is more interested in the A350-900 and feels 35 A350-1000s is too much capacity. What's also known is that current UAL leadership is interested in reining in capex for the next few years. I am speculating, but we could see a deferral of the A350s and conversion back to A359.
Mar 15, 2017, 3:57 pm
#119
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: NYC (Primarily EWR)
Programs: UA 1K / *G, Marriott Bonvoy Gold; Avis PC
Posts: 9,005
It appears that there are some delays due to Zodiac which are causing delays in the 763 and 772 retrofits: https://skift.com/2017/03/15/united-...-manufacturer/. Makes sense that the 772s, which will stick around longer, would get priority on the new seats.
I have no confirmation from any source I consider reliable, but what I heard is that the entire induction program for the A350 fleet (more of a regulatory/training thing) is on hold.
Rumor has it this management team is more interested in the A350-900 and feels 35 A350-1000s is too much capacity. What's also known is that current UAL leadership is interested in reining in capex for the next few years. I am speculating, but we could see a deferral of the A350s and conversion back to A359.
Rumor has it this management team is more interested in the A350-900 and feels 35 A350-1000s is too much capacity. What's also known is that current UAL leadership is interested in reining in capex for the next few years. I am speculating, but we could see a deferral of the A350s and conversion back to A359.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Mar 15, 2017 at 4:06 pm Reason: merging consecutive posts by same member
Mar 15, 2017, 4:33 pm
#120
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: EWR, BDL
Posts: 4,471
More fuel to the fire re: 767s, as they are not mentioned. My bet is reconfiguration plans are on ice for now.
Reportedly, Zodiac has been slow (but well within contractual limits) in delivering Polaris 777 shipsets. Completed 77W frames are sitting around waiting PAE for seats. I believe the pace of 77W service entry is proceeding as planned, and the issue is that Boeing can build airplanes faster than Zodiac can deliver seats.
Word is out that internal A350 induction work is on hold, too, but I don't have a reliable source for that information.
Reportedly, Zodiac has been slow (but well within contractual limits) in delivering Polaris 777 shipsets. Completed 77W frames are sitting around waiting PAE for seats. I believe the pace of 77W service entry is proceeding as planned, and the issue is that Boeing can build airplanes faster than Zodiac can deliver seats.
Word is out that internal A350 induction work is on hold, too, but I don't have a reliable source for that information.