May 29, 2017, 1:21 pm
Last edit by: kirkwoodj
Check the current status of aircraft reconfigured (or delivered) with new Polaris seats: http://view.ceros.com/united/polaris...-desktop-4/p/3.
A Polaris Update and Polaris Mod Schedule to indicate the status of specific aircraft are maintained by those that manage the United Airlines Fleet Website.
Except for 773- and 781-operated flights, and those markets selling Premium Plus, Polaris-equipped planes have not been allocated to specific routes. You won't know until approx. 36-48 hours before departure if you'll have a newly reconfigured aircraft, and even then, it may be replaced with a non-retrofitted aircraft.
777-300ER - All 22 aircraft have Polaris (60 seats) and installation of Premium Plus cabins (24 seats) is complete.
767-300ER - As of September 2020, 31 of the 38 aircraft have been reconfigured with the Polaris seats.
- Retrofit is from 3-cabin to 2-cabin with direct-aisle-access seats. No 3-cabin 767s remain in service.
- 76A configuration is 30J/50Y+/134Y, total of 214; fleet to consist of 17 ships (former 3-cabin 767s).
- 76L configuration is 46J/22PE/47Y+/52Y; fleet to consist of 21 ships (18 former 2-cabin 76C and 3 used ships from Hawaiian).
767-400ER - [16 aircraft] None updated yet; modifications put on hold due to Covid-19.
777-200ER - As of September 2020, 46 of the 50 aircraft have been reconfigured with Polaris and Premium Plus seats.
- Configuration is 50 Polaris seats, 32 in the front cabin and 18 in the second cabin (behind 2L/R)
- Configuration is 10 across in economy, with 24 Premium Plus seats, 4686 E+ seats and 156 E seats, with E+ in front economy cabin plus exit rows and bulkhead at 3L/R, i.e., almost the same as current pmCO planes, except with 4 seats in middle section.
- Seat map (v5) on united.com
787-8, 787-9 - As of November 2022, all 787-8/9 are converted or in mod. No chance of flying old configuration anymore.
- 788 configuration has 28 Polaris seats (20 in front cabin, 8 in rear mini-cabin), and 21 Premium Plus seats (2-3-2).
- 789 configuration has 48 Polaris seats (32 in front cabin, 16 in rear mini-cabin), and 21 Premium Plus seats (2-3-2).
787-10 - 13 787-10s have been delivered in 2020. All come with Polaris and Premium Plus cabins factory-installed. Another 19 should be added by 2024.
FAQ:
Q: Does a Polaris ticket mean the aircraft has the new Polaris seat?
A: No, Polaris is the label UA uses for long haul international business class. It is also the label UA uses for the new seats, so this does create some confusion.
All the 773s and 787-10s are 100% the new seat.
The rest of the long haul fleet in various stages of conversion, see http://view.ceros.com/united/polaris...-desktop-4/p/3
Q: How to tell if my aircraft is the new style Polaris seats?
A: If the unassigned business class section is showing orange seats or all the seats are side-by-side or there is a section for 4 adjacent seats in the middle, this is an old style lie-flat aircreaft
If the unassigned bussines class seats are dark blue seats or the all the seats appear to have direct aisle access, then you aircraft is the new Polaris seat.
You can also look at the FT maintained, United Fleet Site and crosscheck the tail number or check thePolaris Update tab
Q: How to tell if my aircraft has the new PremiumPlus (PP) / Premium Economy seats?
A: If the unassigned seats just behind business class are purple seats or the aircraft is 773 or 787-10, then yes. However, the purple color seat will only show on routes where PP is being sold.
Aircraft with PP seats are being used on some routes but are not being sold as PP. In those cases, the seats are considered to be a part of E+. In those cases, an indicator of PP sold as E+ will be if the first few rows of economy, there are just 2 seats on the sides (with the rest of E+ showing 3 seats).
Q: Will the aircraft I see at booking be the same configuration at flight time?
A: Unfortunately with the fleet in transit, aircraft swaps happen. UA tends to use placeholders until 2 days before travel and even after that last minute swaps do happen.
Q: My flight seat map shows 772 with polaris seats is it a retrofit?
A: Possibly. The flight status page shows the most accurate scheduled aircraft. If a 77W is swapped in, it will list the aircraft as 777-300ER. However, if the 772's seatmap shows blue rectangular boxes in the business class cabin instead of orange "pointy rounds", this would indicate that a retrofit aircraft has been swapped.
See also: United Future/Changed Routes w/ Polaris seats
A Polaris Update and Polaris Mod Schedule to indicate the status of specific aircraft are maintained by those that manage the United Airlines Fleet Website.
Except for 773- and 781-operated flights, and those markets selling Premium Plus, Polaris-equipped planes have not been allocated to specific routes. You won't know until approx. 36-48 hours before departure if you'll have a newly reconfigured aircraft, and even then, it may be replaced with a non-retrofitted aircraft.
777-300ER - All 22 aircraft have Polaris (60 seats) and installation of Premium Plus cabins (24 seats) is complete.
767-300ER - As of September 2020, 31 of the 38 aircraft have been reconfigured with the Polaris seats.
- Retrofit is from 3-cabin to 2-cabin with direct-aisle-access seats. No 3-cabin 767s remain in service.
- 76A configuration is 30J/50Y+/134Y, total of 214; fleet to consist of 17 ships (former 3-cabin 767s).
- 76L configuration is 46J/22PE/47Y+/52Y; fleet to consist of 21 ships (18 former 2-cabin 76C and 3 used ships from Hawaiian).
767-400ER - [16 aircraft] None updated yet; modifications put on hold due to Covid-19.
777-200ER - As of September 2020, 46 of the 50 aircraft have been reconfigured with Polaris and Premium Plus seats.
- Configuration is 50 Polaris seats, 32 in the front cabin and 18 in the second cabin (behind 2L/R)
- Configuration is 10 across in economy, with 24 Premium Plus seats, 46
- Seat map (v5) on united.com
787-8, 787-9 - As of November 2022, all 787-8/9 are converted or in mod. No chance of flying old configuration anymore.
- 788 configuration has 28 Polaris seats (20 in front cabin, 8 in rear mini-cabin), and 21 Premium Plus seats (2-3-2).
- 789 configuration has 48 Polaris seats (32 in front cabin, 16 in rear mini-cabin), and 21 Premium Plus seats (2-3-2).
787-10 - 13 787-10s have been delivered in 2020. All come with Polaris and Premium Plus cabins factory-installed. Another 19 should be added by 2024.
FAQ:
Q: Does a Polaris ticket mean the aircraft has the new Polaris seat?
A: No, Polaris is the label UA uses for long haul international business class. It is also the label UA uses for the new seats, so this does create some confusion.
All the 773s and 787-10s are 100% the new seat.
The rest of the long haul fleet in various stages of conversion, see http://view.ceros.com/united/polaris...-desktop-4/p/3
Q: How to tell if my aircraft is the new style Polaris seats?
A: If the unassigned business class section is showing orange seats or all the seats are side-by-side or there is a section for 4 adjacent seats in the middle, this is an old style lie-flat aircreaft
If the unassigned bussines class seats are dark blue seats or the all the seats appear to have direct aisle access, then you aircraft is the new Polaris seat.
You can also look at the FT maintained, United Fleet Site and crosscheck the tail number or check thePolaris Update tab
Q: How to tell if my aircraft has the new PremiumPlus (PP) / Premium Economy seats?
A: If the unassigned seats just behind business class are purple seats or the aircraft is 773 or 787-10, then yes. However, the purple color seat will only show on routes where PP is being sold.
Aircraft with PP seats are being used on some routes but are not being sold as PP. In those cases, the seats are considered to be a part of E+. In those cases, an indicator of PP sold as E+ will be if the first few rows of economy, there are just 2 seats on the sides (with the rest of E+ showing 3 seats).
Q: Will the aircraft I see at booking be the same configuration at flight time?
A: Unfortunately with the fleet in transit, aircraft swaps happen. UA tends to use placeholders until 2 days before travel and even after that last minute swaps do happen.
Q: My flight seat map shows 772 with polaris seats is it a retrofit?
A: Possibly. The flight status page shows the most accurate scheduled aircraft. If a 77W is swapped in, it will list the aircraft as 777-300ER. However, if the 772's seatmap shows blue rectangular boxes in the business class cabin instead of orange "pointy rounds", this would indicate that a retrofit aircraft has been swapped.
See also: United Future/Changed Routes w/ Polaris seats
✨ Polaris (& PP) Retrofits: Schedule, ....
Mar 20, 2018, 4:49 pm
#856
Join Date: May 2015
Programs: All the programs!
Posts: 1,006
Polaris 767 (76A) #6 should be back in the system within the next week or two.
Once N646UA returns to service and a IPTE 767 replaces it at HKG, there will be more 76A in service than 3-cabin 767s.
Mar 20, 2018, 5:03 pm
#857
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York, NY
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The new seat has been available to the public for 14 months. Only 5 aircraft have been retrofit. The ineptitude falls on UA with regards to their marketing team not talking to fleet ops. Only 14 767s will get the new seats at this time. 0 of 55 772s have new seats, but they have polaris. No plans for 2 class 767s, 787s (saying they are planned is not a plan), 757s.
UA still deserves flack for over-promising here, but I'm fairly certain it's not a capex issue, nor an issue of marketing not coordinating with "fleet ops". The Zodiac delays unquestionably set United back significantly, which creates a major logistical headache when the retrofits are being coordinated with other major airframe maintenance, in this case offshore at foreign vendor facilities which also serve other carriers.
If it were possible to make up the backlog, I'm sure UA would be doing all it could to do so. I see some posters attempting to draw a comparison between the Airbus/737/777 'densification', as if United is somehow more motivated to complete cabin mods that are generally viewed as less passenger-friendly... allow me to debunk that theory. While the Polaris cabin is pretty slick, and the IFE is a big improvement over the three-cabin 767 products, the key benefits to UA are the following:
- additional three business class seats versus previous configuration (26 vs. 29+1 pilot rest seat; J sells at a healthier rate than F in most markets)
- additional 33 economy class seats versus previous configuration
- consistent galley configurations with rest of two-cabin 763 and 764 fleet
- reliability and life extension improvements
The first two are enabled by the removal of a low-density F cabin (which does not sell very well), associated cabin monuments like a lav/closet, and the mid-cabin J galley complex, all of which are essentially replaced by revenue seats. This is a major benefit to United, in the same way (additional capacity at low marginal cost) as slimline densification on the domestic fleet. The 777 situation is the same; I am certain United wants to get airplanes modded as quickly as it can, but there are well-documented regulatory and logistical issues to contend with first.
It won't be 50 frames. At this point, my guess is closer to 40, with 45 at the high end. Even with three 777 mod lines, I don't think United can get to 50 this year, assuming an 8-week period OOS, per airplane, and no slowdown for the summer. Still, I don't think an average of ~2 airplanes entering service a month (with the new seats) since the first one debuted is a terrible pace, mind you.
Mar 20, 2018, 5:29 pm
#858
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: SFO
Programs: UAMP Global Services, AA Platinum
Posts: 89
It won't be 50 frames. At this point, my guess is closer to 40, with 45 at the high end. Even with three 777 mod lines, I don't think United can get to 50 this year, assuming an 8-week period OOS, per airplane, and no slowdown for the summer. Still, I don't think an average of ~2 airplanes entering service a month (with the new seats) since the first one debuted is a terrible pace, mind you.
18 77W (14 existing plus 4 on order)
13 763
4 787-10 (scheduled to be delivered)
Could they get an additional 15 772ERs completed? Maybe... if they keep on 2 per month pace in second half after the 763s are done.
Mar 20, 2018, 5:35 pm
#859
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York, NY
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Posts: 9,450
I'd be shocked if United gets to 15 772s by the end of the year. That pace would almost certainly require 4 simultaneous mod lines and a full summer of work, which is unlikely with the 777 fleet.
The ~2 per month pace (in reality, a little less than that) takes into account new deliveries, too. UA's vendors will not be churning out 2 modded 777s per month, on an absolute basis, unless they can shorten the visit to 5-6 weeks or get up to 4 mod lines. IMO, neither is likely. It's a pretty significant job; essentially the same full-gut scope as the 763, save for keeping the bins, sidewalls and lighting. New seats, IFE, galleys, lavs, closets, carpets, etc. are going in.
If UA can get to 10 reconfigured 777s by the end of the year, IMO that will be pretty impressive. The first one doesn't even have a STC approved yet (but should soon).
Mar 20, 2018, 5:54 pm
#860
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 129
If United had introduced the new seat but marketed it as a BusinessFirst seat what would the consensus be? Amongst many posters here it would be "United sold me a BuisnessFirst seat but when I boarded the plane it was the same old seat I've slept and ate in for the past 9 years".
The new seat has been available to the public for 14 months. Only 5 aircraft have been retrofit. The ineptitude falls on UA with regards to their marketing team not talking to fleet ops. Only 14 767s will get the new seats at this time. 0 of 55 772s have new seats, but they have polaris. No plans for 2 class 767s, 787s (saying they are planned is not a plan), 757s.
The 787s will miss the boat wrt heavy maintenance check downtime opportunity. Amtrakusa could be correct the seats could have weight issues but with heavy checks 5 to 6 years apart I doubt UA pulls them mid cycle for seats.
The issue that most here have is that timelines were either ambitious, shifted or elongated intentionally. No one knows for sure but the way 2017 came and went with very little progress in the hard product front does not bode well that UA will complete the project without eroding goodwill or giving up completely. Maybe as others have stated, UA does not see revenue premium from the new seats.
Lastly, by your logic UA should stop replacing seats as all aircraft have "polaris". Well there we have it folks shut down this thread retrofits are complete all they needed was a name change.
The 787s will miss the boat wrt heavy maintenance check downtime opportunity. Amtrakusa could be correct the seats could have weight issues but with heavy checks 5 to 6 years apart I doubt UA pulls them mid cycle for seats.
The issue that most here have is that timelines were either ambitious, shifted or elongated intentionally. No one knows for sure but the way 2017 came and went with very little progress in the hard product front does not bode well that UA will complete the project without eroding goodwill or giving up completely. Maybe as others have stated, UA does not see revenue premium from the new seats.
Lastly, by your logic UA should stop replacing seats as all aircraft have "polaris". Well there we have it folks shut down this thread retrofits are complete all they needed was a name change.
Mar 20, 2018, 6:06 pm
#861
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
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It's very clearly written in English that the new seats are a replacement of the existing seats (for retrofitted aircraft) and that the marketing name for all seats in Polaris Business class is the Polaris Business class seat. If you try to book a flight to day in business class you will be shown a Polaris Business Class seat, not a BusinessFirst seat as I have explained previously. Polaris Business class is the name of the service class, not the seat.
Here's some more verbiage from the UA website which shows that UA itself very clearly understands the difference between a "Polaris seat" and "Polaris business class":
The new United Polaris seat is now on select aircraft and will be added to additional aircraft over the course of the next few years. In the meantime, you can enjoy all other aspects of the United Polaris inflight experience — from bedding and amenities to beverage and dining service — on any long-haul international flight across our global network.
Mar 20, 2018, 7:39 pm
#862
Join Date: Sep 2015
Programs: UA Million Mile, Mileage Plus Premier 1K, SkyMiles Gold Medallion, AAdvantage Gold
Posts: 875
It could be close to 50. Here’s what we know will be in place:
18 77W (14 existing plus 4 on order)
13 763
4 787-10 (scheduled to be delivered)
Could they get an additional 15 772ERs completed? Maybe... if they keep on 2 per month pace in second half after the 763s are done.
I would love to see UA increase the pace, but given the supplier issues and lack of flexibility in the schedule, I am not too optimistic. Maybe the 772s can go at a faster pace for some reason I am unaware of?
Mar 20, 2018, 7:48 pm
#863
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As for the 772s: if the first one exits on schedule April 1, they are able to transform 2 at a time like the 763s, and they maintain a similar pace as the 763s (~2.5 months per aircraft), then they would follow a very similar schedule as the 763s and have 7 done (6 plus the 1 in right now) by the end of the year with 2 more in the shop. That gives 42 total aircraft
Mar 20, 2018, 7:55 pm
#864
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Join Date: Apr 2003
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Posts: 12,331
IMHO, UA should start retrofitting the 2-4-2 PMUA 772 first rather than 763. Those cabins are the ones needed more aisle access and wider seats. The 3 class 763 cabin and layout is not bad. I do understand UA’s rationale for doing 763 first as the 763 has shorter useful life and UA has shorter ROI period for the new seats on the 763.
ROI outweighs customer comfort.
Mar 20, 2018, 7:55 pm
#865
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York, NY
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The 763s received all-new interiors in their mods (bins, sidewalls, lighting, closets, galleys, lavs, etc.), new seats and new IFE. The 777s will keep bins/sidewalls at minimum. In that respect, the 777 mod is slightly less comprehensive, but a larger job owing to the size of the airplane.
Mar 20, 2018, 7:57 pm
#866
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Mar 20, 2018, 8:02 pm
#867
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Mar 20, 2018, 8:19 pm
#868
Join Date: Dec 2014
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The fourteen 767-300ERs receiving Polaris are getting not only a full gut job but extensive heavy maintenance that will keep them around for a while, hopefully until the 797 can be delivered.
Mar 21, 2018, 12:11 am
#870
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Washington DC
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Posts: 524
Y cabin on 767 is completely redone i think. That is why UA 767 is the best 767 to fly in the world now.