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✨ Polaris (& PP) Retrofits: Schedule, ....

Old May 29, 17, 1:21 pm
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Last edit by: kirkwoodj
Check the current status of aircraft reconfigured (or delivered) with new Polaris seats: http://view.ceros.com/united/polaris...-desktop-4/p/3.

A Polaris Update and Polaris Mod Schedule to indicate the status of specific aircraft are maintained by those that manage the United Airlines Fleet Website.

Except for 773- and 781-operated flights, and those markets selling Premium Plus, Polaris-equipped planes have not been allocated to specific routes. You won't know until approx. 36-48 hours before departure if you'll have a newly reconfigured aircraft, and even then, it may be replaced with a non-retrofitted aircraft.

777-300ER - All 22 aircraft have Polaris (60 seats) and installation of Premium Plus cabins (24 seats) is complete.

767-300ER - As of September 2020, 31 of the 38 aircraft have been reconfigured with the Polaris seats.
- Retrofit is from 3-cabin to 2-cabin with direct-aisle-access seats. No 3-cabin 767s remain in service.
- 76A configuration is 30J/50Y+/134Y, total of 214; fleet to consist of 17 ships (former 3-cabin 767s).
- 76L configuration is 46J/22PE/47Y+/52Y; fleet to consist of 21 ships (18 former 2-cabin 76C and 3 used ships from Hawaiian).

767-400ER - [16 aircraft] None updated yet; modifications put on hold due to Covid-19.

777-200ER - As of September 2020, 46 of the 50 aircraft have been reconfigured with Polaris and Premium Plus seats.
- Configuration is 50 Polaris seats, 32 in the front cabin and 18 in the second cabin (behind 2L/R)
- Configuration is 10 across in economy, with 24 Premium Plus seats, 46 86 E+ seats and 156 E seats, with E+ in front economy cabin plus exit rows and bulkhead at 3L/R, i.e., almost the same as current pmCO planes, except with 4 seats in middle section.
- Seat map (v5) on united.com

787-8, 787-9 - As of November 2022, all 787-8/9 are converted or in mod. No chance of flying old configuration anymore.
- 788 configuration has 28 Polaris seats (20 in front cabin, 8 in rear mini-cabin), and 21 Premium Plus seats (2-3-2).
- 789 configuration has 48 Polaris seats (32 in front cabin, 16 in rear mini-cabin), and 21 Premium Plus seats (2-3-2).

787-10 - 13 787-10s have been delivered in 2020. All come with Polaris and Premium Plus cabins factory-installed. Another 19 should be added by 2024.

FAQ:
Q: Does a Polaris ticket mean the aircraft has the new Polaris seat?

A: No, Polaris is the label UA uses for long haul international business class. It is also the label UA uses for the new seats, so this does create some confusion.
All the 773s and 787-10s are 100% the new seat.
The rest of the long haul fleet in various stages of conversion, see http://view.ceros.com/united/polaris...-desktop-4/p/3

Q: How to tell if my aircraft is the new style Polaris seats?
A: If the unassigned business class section is showing orange seats or all the seats are side-by-side or there is a section for 4 adjacent seats in the middle, this is an old style lie-flat aircreaft
If the unassigned bussines class seats are dark blue seats or the all the seats appear to have direct aisle access, then you aircraft is the new Polaris seat.
You can also look at the FT maintained, United Fleet Site and crosscheck the tail number or check thePolaris Update tab

Q: How to tell if my aircraft has the new PremiumPlus (PP) / Premium Economy seats?
A: If the unassigned seats just behind business class are purple seats or the aircraft is 773 or 787-10, then yes. However, the purple color seat will only show on routes where PP is being sold.
Aircraft with PP seats are being used on some routes but are not being sold as PP. In those cases, the seats are considered to be a part of E+. In those cases, an indicator of PP sold as E+ will be if the first few rows of economy, there are just 2 seats on the sides (with the rest of E+ showing 3 seats).

Q: Will the aircraft I see at booking be the same configuration at flight time?
A: Unfortunately with the fleet in transit, aircraft swaps happen. UA tends to use placeholders until 2 days before travel and even after that last minute swaps do happen.

Q: My flight seat map shows 772 with polaris seats is it a retrofit?
A: Possibly. The flight status page shows the most accurate scheduled aircraft. If a 77W is swapped in, it will list the aircraft as 777-300ER. However, if the 772's seatmap shows blue rectangular boxes in the business class cabin instead of orange "pointy rounds", this would indicate that a retrofit aircraft has been swapped.

See also: United Future/Changed Routes w/ Polaris seats

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✨ Polaris (& PP) Retrofits: Schedule, ....

Old Mar 19, 17, 12:28 pm
  #181  
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Originally Posted by cerealmarketer
Looks like 3 773s are in service (31/32/33), 2 are in final checks about to be in service (36/37).

2 are at Boeing waiting for seats (34/35).

So 9 airframes to go out of the 14 total.

As much as I like 747s I'm not holding my breath this is going to do much to prolong their life at UA beyond October.

They just retired one end of Feb, and not even to Victorville for storage. It went straight to scrap at Tupelo, MS.

https://sites.google.com/site/united...nline-aircraft

they've got quite a lot of time to get the rest of the seats in before they'd "risk" not retiring 744s.

As for scrapping, if they now are having spares issues in addition to the fuel tank mods and general operating costs, presumably they go to the scrappers to be raided of useful parts and then its off to the budweiser cannery.
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Old Mar 19, 17, 12:38 pm
  #182  
 
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Originally Posted by Kacee
This is the part that raises concern.
8 months to get 9 planes fitted with seats. They'll sort that out and we reluctantly join Delta fliers to say a fond farewell to the 747s by the end of this year.

772s not starting refits until the end of this year doesn't sound ambitious.

I think UA had quietly hoped to surprise us and have 50+ planes with the seats by the end of this year, but the Zodiac issues put a wrench in that, thus the 1Q18 'first service' date. Who knows, maybe the plan contemplates an alternate seat in 2018 if they can't get their act together.
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Old Mar 19, 17, 12:46 pm
  #183  
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Originally Posted by cerealmarketer
8 months to get 9 planes fitted with seats. They'll sort that out and we say farewell to the 747s.

772s not starting refits until the end of this year doesn't sound ambitious.

I think UA had quietly hoped to surprise us and have 50+ planes with the seats by the end of this year, but the Zodiac issues put a wrench in that, thus the 1Q18 'first service' date. Who knows, maybe the plan contemplates an alternate seat in 2018 if they can't get their act together.
It just sounds like Zodiac is a complete mess. Not just the UA issues, but the problems with other carriers, including QR and now complaints about the quality of the seats on the CX 350.

So while I agree the schedule sounds reasonable, the concern would be that Zodiac is melting down and even a relatively conservative delivery schedule won't be met (particularly if there are quality control problems).

Obviously hope that's not the case.
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Old Mar 19, 17, 2:03 pm
  #184  
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Originally Posted by Kacee
It just sounds like Zodiac is a complete mess. Not just the UA issues, but the problems with other carriers, including QR and now complaints about the quality of the seats on the CX 350.

So while I agree the schedule sounds reasonable, the concern would be that Zodiac is melting down and even a relatively conservative delivery schedule won't be met (particularly if there are quality control problems).

Obviously hope that's not the case.
Why did UA go with Zodiac in the first place?
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Old Mar 19, 17, 2:33 pm
  #185  
 
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Originally Posted by Kacee
It just sounds like Zodiac is a complete mess. Not just the UA issues, but the problems with other carriers, including QR and now complaints about the quality of the seats on the CX 350.

So while I agree the schedule sounds reasonable, the concern would be that Zodiac is melting down and even a relatively conservative delivery schedule won't be met (particularly if there are quality control problems).

Obviously hope that's not the case.
You would think (and hope) that UA must have a 'plan b' should Zodiac not be able to deliver, including selecting a new seat and possibly even getting the certification rolling.

If this continues to play out, I wonder at which point they will cut their losses and go with a new seat.
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Old Mar 19, 17, 2:55 pm
  #186  
 
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Originally Posted by halls120
Why did UA go with Zodiac in the first place?
I think there are only two big scale premium seat providers thanks to consolidation - BE and Zodiac.

Stelia and Thomson are smaller scale I think.

This is not like choosing Walmart over Saks.

It's more of a Boeing vs Airbus kind of choice.

I wonder if Zodiac is more willing to customize and BE tends to do more off the shelf work but could be wrong. Lufthansas seat was BE.

CX, Qatar, and others chose them - not like they're some LCC outfit.

It's an issue for the industry that one of two main suppliers is having so many problems.

Last edited by cerealmarketer; Mar 19, 17 at 3:01 pm
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Old Mar 19, 17, 4:07 pm
  #187  
 
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Originally Posted by Kacee
This is the part that raises concern.
It's certainly somewhat concerning, but this might be the most challenging period for Zodiac to fill the order. New 77Ws with 60 J seats are coming off the line very quickly. In general, retrofits won't be as quick.
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Old Mar 19, 17, 4:22 pm
  #188  
 
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Speaking of CX.

Damaged, substandard Zodiac seats hit Cathay Pacific image
https://runwaygirlnetwork.com/2017/0...pacific-image/
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Old Mar 19, 17, 4:28 pm
  #189  
 
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Originally Posted by oopl
Speaking of CX.

Damaged, substandard Zodiac seats hit Cathay Pacific image
https://runwaygirlnetwork.com/2017/0...pacific-image/
Zodiac also did the well regarded AA 773 and A380 for Emirates.

http://www.nxtbook.fr/newpress/ZODIA...g=75&cid=share

Based on that reputation got the big A350 book and a bunch of others that, well...now we're seeing what the ramp up has done.

I'm guessing the UA seat decision was made before AA ran into trouble in 2015.
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Old Mar 19, 17, 5:55 pm
  #190  
 
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Someone on another thread shared the link to a recent media presentation by Oscar. In their timeline of "what's next" they no longer list any info on reconfigurations for the 767s. I wonder if they are scrapping that plan and going to just replace these aircraft with new ones. I wish they would announce the results of their fleet review (re: A350s) soon.

http://ir.united.com/~/media/Files/U...esentation.pdf
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Old Mar 19, 17, 6:02 pm
  #191  
 
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Originally Posted by JFKflyer26
Someone on another thread shared the link to a recent media presentation by Oscar. In their timeline of "what's next" they no longer list any info on reconfigurations for the 767s. I wonder if they are scrapping that plan and going to just replace these aircraft with new ones. I wish they would announce the results of their fleet review (re: A350s) soon.

http://ir.united.com/~/media/Files/U...esentation.pdf
According to pilot talk the A350 Sim has been canceled. Also looks as tho A321neos destined for Turkish Airlines is supposedly coming this way and company is looking at the A321LR. Should know more soon. But if the 797 or whatever its called is appealing to United not sure if the A321s would actually happen.
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Old Mar 19, 17, 6:39 pm
  #192  
 
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Originally Posted by JOSECONLSCREW28
According to pilot talk the A350 Sim has been canceled. Also looks as tho A321neos destined for Turkish Airlines is supposedly coming this way and company is looking at the A321LR. Should know more soon. But if the 797 or whatever its called is appealing to United not sure if the A321s would actually happen.
A321s would clearly fill a gap that will be left by the sUA p.s. birds being sent out to pasture by end of next year. I just wonder if they would a) bother to have any single-aisle jets with as many J seats as those have; and b) if they would install new seats or simply take the ones out of the 752s and park them on the A321s. Given the current seat problems w/Zodiac, that would be a tough call - installing last-generation seats would not be ideal...
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Old Mar 19, 17, 9:11 pm
  #193  
 
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Originally Posted by pushmyredbutton
You would think (and hope) that UA must have a 'plan b' should Zodiac not be able to deliver, including selecting a new seat and possibly even getting the certification rolling.

If this continues to play out, I wonder at which point they will cut their losses and go with a new seat.
If Zodiac does flop out, the might have to go with Zodiac USA instead of Zodiac UK if they want to keep the Polaris seat.

In the mean time, if a new contract or a new concept needs to thought of, and I really hate to say this, maybe install some B/E Aerospace Diamond seats (the PMCO ones) that ares still being cranked out for the 787-9?

You said it yourself, they need to have a pre-cautionary Plan B, and while the PMCO seats are not cutting edge, they are proven and will get the planes into service, better than having them sit around, IMO.
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Old Mar 20, 17, 6:28 am
  #194  
 
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I didn't read every single comment in this thread, but seems like 772 isn't set for the new seats for a few months. However, the 1k agent just told me that there's been a plane swap on my flight this afternoon, and the new plane is using the Polaris hard product. I specifically asked to clarify. From the seat map, it's showing a new business configuration, but claims the plane is still 772. So, will this be the actual hard product or not?
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Old Mar 20, 17, 6:33 am
  #195  
 
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Originally Posted by JOSECONLSCREW28
According to pilot talk the A350 Sim has been canceled. Also looks as tho A321neos destined for Turkish Airlines is supposedly coming this way and company is looking at the A321LR. Should know more soon. But if the 797 or whatever its called is appealing to United not sure if the A321s would actually happen.
Cancellation or deferral of the 350 sim at TK is confirmed (either way it's not happening this year) but I would not read further into the Turkish 321neo rumor than any of the other crazy speculation that comes from public pilot gossip boards.

What seems more reasonable to me is the rumor UA is looking to acquire some 77Ws coming off lease at a certain Gulf carrier...
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