May 29, 2017, 1:21 pm
Last edit by: kirkwoodj
Check the current status of aircraft reconfigured (or delivered) with new Polaris seats: http://view.ceros.com/united/polaris...-desktop-4/p/3.
A Polaris Update and Polaris Mod Schedule to indicate the status of specific aircraft are maintained by those that manage the United Airlines Fleet Website.
Except for 773- and 781-operated flights, and those markets selling Premium Plus, Polaris-equipped planes have not been allocated to specific routes. You won't know until approx. 36-48 hours before departure if you'll have a newly reconfigured aircraft, and even then, it may be replaced with a non-retrofitted aircraft.
777-300ER - All 22 aircraft have Polaris (60 seats) and installation of Premium Plus cabins (24 seats) is complete.
767-300ER - As of September 2020, 31 of the 38 aircraft have been reconfigured with the Polaris seats.
- Retrofit is from 3-cabin to 2-cabin with direct-aisle-access seats. No 3-cabin 767s remain in service.
- 76A configuration is 30J/50Y+/134Y, total of 214; fleet to consist of 17 ships (former 3-cabin 767s).
- 76L configuration is 46J/22PE/47Y+/52Y; fleet to consist of 21 ships (18 former 2-cabin 76C and 3 used ships from Hawaiian).
767-400ER - [16 aircraft] None updated yet; modifications put on hold due to Covid-19.
777-200ER - As of September 2020, 46 of the 50 aircraft have been reconfigured with Polaris and Premium Plus seats.
- Configuration is 50 Polaris seats, 32 in the front cabin and 18 in the second cabin (behind 2L/R)
- Configuration is 10 across in economy, with 24 Premium Plus seats, 4686 E+ seats and 156 E seats, with E+ in front economy cabin plus exit rows and bulkhead at 3L/R, i.e., almost the same as current pmCO planes, except with 4 seats in middle section.
- Seat map (v5) on united.com
787-8, 787-9 - As of November 2022, all 787-8/9 are converted or in mod. No chance of flying old configuration anymore.
- 788 configuration has 28 Polaris seats (20 in front cabin, 8 in rear mini-cabin), and 21 Premium Plus seats (2-3-2).
- 789 configuration has 48 Polaris seats (32 in front cabin, 16 in rear mini-cabin), and 21 Premium Plus seats (2-3-2).
787-10 - 13 787-10s have been delivered in 2020. All come with Polaris and Premium Plus cabins factory-installed. Another 19 should be added by 2024.
FAQ:
Q: Does a Polaris ticket mean the aircraft has the new Polaris seat?
A: No, Polaris is the label UA uses for long haul international business class. It is also the label UA uses for the new seats, so this does create some confusion.
All the 773s and 787-10s are 100% the new seat.
The rest of the long haul fleet in various stages of conversion, see http://view.ceros.com/united/polaris...-desktop-4/p/3
Q: How to tell if my aircraft is the new style Polaris seats?
A: If the unassigned business class section is showing orange seats or all the seats are side-by-side or there is a section for 4 adjacent seats in the middle, this is an old style lie-flat aircreaft
If the unassigned bussines class seats are dark blue seats or the all the seats appear to have direct aisle access, then you aircraft is the new Polaris seat.
You can also look at the FT maintained, United Fleet Site and crosscheck the tail number or check thePolaris Update tab
Q: How to tell if my aircraft has the new PremiumPlus (PP) / Premium Economy seats?
A: If the unassigned seats just behind business class are purple seats or the aircraft is 773 or 787-10, then yes. However, the purple color seat will only show on routes where PP is being sold.
Aircraft with PP seats are being used on some routes but are not being sold as PP. In those cases, the seats are considered to be a part of E+. In those cases, an indicator of PP sold as E+ will be if the first few rows of economy, there are just 2 seats on the sides (with the rest of E+ showing 3 seats).
Q: Will the aircraft I see at booking be the same configuration at flight time?
A: Unfortunately with the fleet in transit, aircraft swaps happen. UA tends to use placeholders until 2 days before travel and even after that last minute swaps do happen.
Q: My flight seat map shows 772 with polaris seats is it a retrofit?
A: Possibly. The flight status page shows the most accurate scheduled aircraft. If a 77W is swapped in, it will list the aircraft as 777-300ER. However, if the 772's seatmap shows blue rectangular boxes in the business class cabin instead of orange "pointy rounds", this would indicate that a retrofit aircraft has been swapped.
See also: United Future/Changed Routes w/ Polaris seats
A Polaris Update and Polaris Mod Schedule to indicate the status of specific aircraft are maintained by those that manage the United Airlines Fleet Website.
Except for 773- and 781-operated flights, and those markets selling Premium Plus, Polaris-equipped planes have not been allocated to specific routes. You won't know until approx. 36-48 hours before departure if you'll have a newly reconfigured aircraft, and even then, it may be replaced with a non-retrofitted aircraft.
777-300ER - All 22 aircraft have Polaris (60 seats) and installation of Premium Plus cabins (24 seats) is complete.
767-300ER - As of September 2020, 31 of the 38 aircraft have been reconfigured with the Polaris seats.
- Retrofit is from 3-cabin to 2-cabin with direct-aisle-access seats. No 3-cabin 767s remain in service.
- 76A configuration is 30J/50Y+/134Y, total of 214; fleet to consist of 17 ships (former 3-cabin 767s).
- 76L configuration is 46J/22PE/47Y+/52Y; fleet to consist of 21 ships (18 former 2-cabin 76C and 3 used ships from Hawaiian).
767-400ER - [16 aircraft] None updated yet; modifications put on hold due to Covid-19.
777-200ER - As of September 2020, 46 of the 50 aircraft have been reconfigured with Polaris and Premium Plus seats.
- Configuration is 50 Polaris seats, 32 in the front cabin and 18 in the second cabin (behind 2L/R)
- Configuration is 10 across in economy, with 24 Premium Plus seats, 46
- Seat map (v5) on united.com
787-8, 787-9 - As of November 2022, all 787-8/9 are converted or in mod. No chance of flying old configuration anymore.
- 788 configuration has 28 Polaris seats (20 in front cabin, 8 in rear mini-cabin), and 21 Premium Plus seats (2-3-2).
- 789 configuration has 48 Polaris seats (32 in front cabin, 16 in rear mini-cabin), and 21 Premium Plus seats (2-3-2).
787-10 - 13 787-10s have been delivered in 2020. All come with Polaris and Premium Plus cabins factory-installed. Another 19 should be added by 2024.
FAQ:
Q: Does a Polaris ticket mean the aircraft has the new Polaris seat?
A: No, Polaris is the label UA uses for long haul international business class. It is also the label UA uses for the new seats, so this does create some confusion.
All the 773s and 787-10s are 100% the new seat.
The rest of the long haul fleet in various stages of conversion, see http://view.ceros.com/united/polaris...-desktop-4/p/3
Q: How to tell if my aircraft is the new style Polaris seats?
A: If the unassigned business class section is showing orange seats or all the seats are side-by-side or there is a section for 4 adjacent seats in the middle, this is an old style lie-flat aircreaft
If the unassigned bussines class seats are dark blue seats or the all the seats appear to have direct aisle access, then you aircraft is the new Polaris seat.
You can also look at the FT maintained, United Fleet Site and crosscheck the tail number or check thePolaris Update tab
Q: How to tell if my aircraft has the new PremiumPlus (PP) / Premium Economy seats?
A: If the unassigned seats just behind business class are purple seats or the aircraft is 773 or 787-10, then yes. However, the purple color seat will only show on routes where PP is being sold.
Aircraft with PP seats are being used on some routes but are not being sold as PP. In those cases, the seats are considered to be a part of E+. In those cases, an indicator of PP sold as E+ will be if the first few rows of economy, there are just 2 seats on the sides (with the rest of E+ showing 3 seats).
Q: Will the aircraft I see at booking be the same configuration at flight time?
A: Unfortunately with the fleet in transit, aircraft swaps happen. UA tends to use placeholders until 2 days before travel and even after that last minute swaps do happen.
Q: My flight seat map shows 772 with polaris seats is it a retrofit?
A: Possibly. The flight status page shows the most accurate scheduled aircraft. If a 77W is swapped in, it will list the aircraft as 777-300ER. However, if the 772's seatmap shows blue rectangular boxes in the business class cabin instead of orange "pointy rounds", this would indicate that a retrofit aircraft has been swapped.
See also: United Future/Changed Routes w/ Polaris seats
✨ Polaris (& PP) Retrofits: Schedule, ....
Feb 3, 2017, 12:11 pm
#46
Join Date: Apr 2011
Programs: WN, AA, UA, DL
Posts: 1,313
I don't any insider knowledge, but it's pretty clear to me that "no current plans to replace the 788/9 seats" is being misinterpreted as "not ever replacing them". They will have to be replaced when they're ready to be replaced. They will just be last in line for them as they have the newest seats.
The 789s to Australia have a third of their seats with exclusive direct aisle access, so, if they're available, you're taking UA, right? Less money for a solid seat with the Polaris soft product is compelling to me.
Whatever the schedule, as with all other UA retrofits, I'm sure it will be way too long.
One data point, but I have 3 of my team and myself on MEL and SYD project. Our corp discount puts ua at $7.5k and DL and AA at $9k biz. We are taking the direct aisle access all day long!!!!
One data point, but I have 3 of my team and myself on MEL and SYD project. Our corp discount puts ua at $7.5k and DL and AA at $9k biz. We are taking the direct aisle access all day long!!!!
Feb 3, 2017, 12:15 pm
#47
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 57,568
The key being "if available," of course. Given how we're told all the time that seat assignments aren't set in stone, no way I'm playing the lottery with UA's 788/9 if the competition has all aisle access. Especially for a 15 hour flight.
Feb 3, 2017, 12:20 pm
#48
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York, NY
Programs: UA, AA, DL, Hertz, Avis, National, Hyatt, Hilton, SPG, Marriott
Posts: 9,448
Even with non-AAA, I'd take my chances with a shorter overall travel time (if the alternative requires a connection... like AA/DL metal to MEL, unclear if QF/VA is available in the quoted instance) for less money. All things being equal, or relatively close, the AAA product is obviously preferable.
Feb 3, 2017, 5:22 pm
#49
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: IAD/DCA/BWI
Programs: Hyatt Globalist (2020:Exp), United Gold
Posts: 1,525
The outer two seats could have a movable divider like the 77W, so that takes care of people travelling together.
Makes me wonder what they are going to do on the 767...as someone pointed out earlier, two seats in the middle (like current 787 seats) already have AAA. Somewhere I saw 1-1-1, but staggering removes options for travelers to sit together.
Feb 3, 2017, 5:56 pm
#50
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: SEA, WAS, PEK
Programs: UA 3K UGS 3MM
Posts: 2,176
Feb 3, 2017, 6:38 pm
#51
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,439
Whatever the schedule, as with all other UA retrofits, I'm sure it will be way too long.
One data point, but I have 3 of my team and myself on MEL and SYD project. Our corp discount puts ua at $7.5k and DL and AA at $9k biz. We are taking the direct aisle access all day long!!!!
One data point, but I have 3 of my team and myself on MEL and SYD project. Our corp discount puts ua at $7.5k and DL and AA at $9k biz. We are taking the direct aisle access all day long!!!!
Feb 4, 2017, 12:53 am
#52
Join Date: Aug 2013
Programs: UA-GS, Hyatt-Defiantly Diamond, Marriott-Platinum, SPG-Platinum
Posts: 499
I'd hope it also factors in the premium many GS pay in J in order to upgrade to ON. Without GF, I'm going from either buying A or J/C to buying P or a better product. Unless the product is massively different in real life, Polaris is not something I'm willing to pay a premium for. Most of the GS I talk to on flights like SFO-HKG and SFO-LHR say the exact same thing.
I'm not convinced this is something that was part of the math, which was done by Smisek and Co and not Oscar.
I'm not convinced this is something that was part of the math, which was done by Smisek and Co and not Oscar.
I will admit I've seen some flights with GF full of NRSA, but not in the last several months. Most of the time, the people in GF I know from the office, and NRSA has been very uncommon for me lately.
Feb 4, 2017, 5:41 am
#53
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 57,568
Of course, but on what by now has been dozens and dozens, maybe hundreds, of longhaul premium flights on UA, I've lost a seat assignment (to a less-preferable seat) exactly twice, and was compensated well for it on both occasions. YMMV.
Even with non-AAA, I'd take my chances with a shorter overall travel time (if the alternative requires a connection... like AA/DL metal to MEL, unclear if QF/VA is available in the quoted instance) for less money. All things being equal, or relatively close, the AAA product is obviously preferable.
Even with non-AAA, I'd take my chances with a shorter overall travel time (if the alternative requires a connection... like AA/DL metal to MEL, unclear if QF/VA is available in the quoted instance) for less money. All things being equal, or relatively close, the AAA product is obviously preferable.
First World problems? Sure. But when I can fly LAX-SYD on AA for the same price as UA and not have to worry about the above, why would I?
Feb 4, 2017, 1:44 pm
#54
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: SFO
Programs: UA GS
Posts: 80
Any word on what the retrofit actually includes? We know the seats of course in Polaris class. But are the economy rows new as well? What about the lavatory or overhead bins? Would be nice to get a lavatory like the 789 with the motion sensors. Or even the automatic window tinting shade. I also wonder how long it takes once a 777 goes in for this retrofit.
Feb 4, 2017, 1:51 pm
#55
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: New York, NY
Programs: UA Gold
Posts: 249
Any word on what the retrofit actually includes? We know the seats of course in Polaris class. But are the economy rows new as well? What about the lavatory or overhead bins? Would be nice to get a lavatory like the 789 with the motion sensors. Or even the automatic window tinting shade. I also wonder how long it takes once a 777 goes in for this retrofit.
Also expect that the 772s will be converted to 10 abreast, while the 767s and 787s will of course remain with their standard configurations (Which on the 777 has basically become 10 abreast).
Tinted windows are a 787 only feature, so that won't go in. And the 777 already has enormous overhead bins so those are definitely not being changed.
The 777 Polaris requires 4 seating modules across to fit, each with 2 staggered seats. the 767 will simply have 3 of these modules instead of 4, so its not too complicated to picture how this will work.
Last edited by Agremeister; Feb 4, 2017 at 1:58 pm
Feb 4, 2017, 2:04 pm
#56
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: NYC
Programs: UA 1K, Hyatt Globalist, M Life Gold, SIXT Platinum, Marriott Gold, Amex Platinum, Global Entry
Posts: 150
My opinion and $1.99 will get you a cup of coffee, but... I'm actually glad there is no formal rollout schedule, and hope that the posters' speculation up-thread about them waiting for feedback is correct. The question is, if they get that feedback and it's negative, what will they DO?? The process of certifying a new seat takes an enormous amount of time, and that's time when UA will be stuck with a lot of 2/4/2 J planes while the competition eats their lunch.
I've flown a lot of Int'l airlines over the last 10 years, and I'm here to tell you that just because a new J seat is aisle-access/herringbone/private-pod/suite, doesn't mean that it's comfortable or pleasant for a 12-hour trip. Sleeping in a seat that's slightly too narrow with one of those airbag seatbelts... or weird shell designs that are impossible to clean the interiors of properly, so they're always sticky or have all kinds of crud stuck in the crevices. Leg-rest designs that have a "lump" right under your hips that make laying down for more than 30 minutes impossible. There are ALL kinds of reasons why a "brand new" J seat can be much, much worse than the "old" seat that it replaced. A demo in a hangar, or honestly even a 3-hour ORD-SFO flight, aren't really going to tell you what it's like to be trapped TPAC on one of these birds, until people actually start doing it!
I, for one, want a LOT more data on the magical new Polaris seat before I'm going to start adjusting my travel patterns to hunt for it. Especially on the 787s and some of the 767s, the pmCO seat, particularly the two aisle-only seats in the middle of the cabin, really aren't that bad even by Int'l standards. That's sort of my bare-minimum standard for Polaris, that it can't REDUCE the actual comfort of what they're already flying, in the name of trendiness...
I've flown a lot of Int'l airlines over the last 10 years, and I'm here to tell you that just because a new J seat is aisle-access/herringbone/private-pod/suite, doesn't mean that it's comfortable or pleasant for a 12-hour trip. Sleeping in a seat that's slightly too narrow with one of those airbag seatbelts... or weird shell designs that are impossible to clean the interiors of properly, so they're always sticky or have all kinds of crud stuck in the crevices. Leg-rest designs that have a "lump" right under your hips that make laying down for more than 30 minutes impossible. There are ALL kinds of reasons why a "brand new" J seat can be much, much worse than the "old" seat that it replaced. A demo in a hangar, or honestly even a 3-hour ORD-SFO flight, aren't really going to tell you what it's like to be trapped TPAC on one of these birds, until people actually start doing it!
I, for one, want a LOT more data on the magical new Polaris seat before I'm going to start adjusting my travel patterns to hunt for it. Especially on the 787s and some of the 767s, the pmCO seat, particularly the two aisle-only seats in the middle of the cabin, really aren't that bad even by Int'l standards. That's sort of my bare-minimum standard for Polaris, that it can't REDUCE the actual comfort of what they're already flying, in the name of trendiness...
Feb 4, 2017, 2:17 pm
#57
Join Date: May 2014
Location: DMV
Posts: 2,092
I am pretty sure Virgin Atlantic rolled out a new J seat a few years back and when the feedback was disastrous, they stopped that within a few months and developed a 'new' new seat.
I think KLM also had a weird thing where they put a 'new' J product into their 747s and 777s just a couple years ago and then, once it became obvious it's not really competitive vs Delta or the new AF, they decided to quickly move on from that and instead go with a totally new design for the 787.
So there is precedent for 'on the fly' rethinking here in the industry. An about face beats being stuck with an unpopular J product for several years.
I think KLM also had a weird thing where they put a 'new' J product into their 747s and 777s just a couple years ago and then, once it became obvious it's not really competitive vs Delta or the new AF, they decided to quickly move on from that and instead go with a totally new design for the 787.
So there is precedent for 'on the fly' rethinking here in the industry. An about face beats being stuck with an unpopular J product for several years.
Feb 4, 2017, 2:23 pm
#58
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: New York, NY
Programs: UA Gold
Posts: 249
I am pretty sure Virgin Atlantic rolled out a new J seat a few years back and when the feedback was disastrous, they stopped that within a few months and developed a 'new' new seat.
I think KLM also had a weird thing where they put a 'new' J product into their 747s and 777s just a couple years ago and then, once it became obvious it's not really competitive vs Delta or the new AF, they decided to quickly move on from that and instead go with a totally new design for the 787.
So there is precedent for 'on the fly' rethinking here in the industry. An about face beats being stuck with an unpopular J product for several years.
I think KLM also had a weird thing where they put a 'new' J product into their 747s and 777s just a couple years ago and then, once it became obvious it's not really competitive vs Delta or the new AF, they decided to quickly move on from that and instead go with a totally new design for the 787.
So there is precedent for 'on the fly' rethinking here in the industry. An about face beats being stuck with an unpopular J product for several years.
As for the AF seat, that new seat was a minor upgrade of a 10 year old non-lie-flat non-aisle-access design. It was obvious from the moment it was being installed it would be replaced quickly.
Feb 4, 2017, 4:54 pm
#59
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC: UA 1K, DL Platinum, AAirpass, Avis PC
Posts: 4,599
I'd hope it also factors in the premium many GS pay in J in order to upgrade to ON. Without GF, I'm going from either buying A or J/C to buying P or a better product. Unless the product is massively different in real life, Polaris is not something I'm willing to pay a premium for. Most of the GS I talk to on flights like SFO-HKG and SFO-LHR say the exact same thing.
I'm not convinced this is something that was part of the math, which was done by Smisek and Co and not Oscar.
I'm not convinced this is something that was part of the math, which was done by Smisek and Co and not Oscar.
I don't see many GS who can use P fares as a substitute for most of their travel. The fare restrictions / availability aren't flexible enough.
More likely a GS who mixes in P would end up paying about 33% less, as noted by the example upthread.
And the yield per square inch could then be even higher than current given the floor space difference.
Another part of the equation...J fliers who booked away because of the cramped 2x4/5x2 setups, and who now have a new alternative on UA.
What I can say with certainty.
This is good news to the shareholders / owners / clients of companies where employees are wasting money buying more expensive J fares to sit in the F seat for a J price that fits in policy.
I'm not hearing many complaints here from GS who paid full F fares the majority of the time they rode in F. Which is what's required to make 2x the floorspace viable. The Groupon model of 'buy J, ride in F 80% of the time' doesn't work to support a cabin.
Maybe there are a few routes where it's viable, a la AA's small setup, but not seeing evidence to support the scale of UA's current F footprint, or making radical adjustments to the proposed seat layout. Going to the Super Diamond wouldn't be a terribly radical step.
Feb 4, 2017, 6:58 pm
#60
Moderator: Mileage Run, United Airlines; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The City/Honolulu
Programs: UA 3MM; Hyatt Glob*****; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 14,473