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✨ Polaris (& PP) Retrofits: Schedule, ....

✨ Polaris (& PP) Retrofits: Schedule, ....

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Old Jul 4, 19, 7:27 am   -   Wikipost
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Check the current status of aircraft reconfigured (or delivered) with new Polaris seats: http://view.ceros.com/united/polaris...-desktop-4/p/3

Except for 773- and 781-operated flights, and those markets selling Premium Plus, Polaris-equipped planes have not been allocated to specific routes. You won't know until approx. 36-48 hours before departure if you'll have a newly reconfigured aircraft, and even then, it may be replaced with a non-retrofitted aircraft.

777-300ER - All 18 aircraft have Polaris (60 seats) and installation of Premium Plus cabins (24 seats) is complete. New deliveries (4) in 2019-2020 will come with Polaris and Premium Plus from the factory.

767-300ER - As of 1 Apr. 2019, 14 of the 38 aircraft have been reconfigured with the Polaris seats.
- Retrofit is from 3-cabin to 2-cabin with direct-aisle-access seats. No 3-cabin 767s remain in service.
- 76A configuration is 30J/50Y+/134Y, total of 214; fleet to consist of 14 ships (former 3-cabin 767s).
- 76L configuration is 46J/22PE/47Y+/52Y; fleet to consist of 17 ships (14 former 2-cabin 76C and 3 used ships from Hawaiian).

767-400ER - None updated yet but modifications set to begin in 2020.

777-200ER - As of 18 Apr. 2019, 22 of the 55 aircraft have been reconfigured with Polaris and Premium Plus seats, 5 units being refurbished.
- United says all 777-200ER will be complete by 2020
- Configuration will have 50 Polaris seats, 32 in the front cabin and 18 in the second cabin (behind 2L/R)
- Configuration will be 10 across in economy, with 24 Premium Plus seats, 46 86 E+ seats and 156 E seats, with E+ in front economy cabin plus exit rows and bulkhead at 3L/R, i.e., almost the same as current pmCO planes, except with 4 seats in middle section.
- Seat map (v5) on united.com

787-8, 787-9 - None modified yet but slated to begin in late 2019. 13 787-9s ordered for 2020 delivery will come with Polaris and Premium Plus.

787-10 - 6 of 14 787-10s have been delivered. All come with Polaris and Premium Plus cabins factory-installed.

FAQ:
Q: Does a Polaris ticket mean the aircraft has the new Polaris seat?

A: No, Polaris is the label UA uses for long haul international business class. It is also the label UA uses for the new seats, so this does create some confusion.
All the 773s and 787-10s are 100% the new seat.
The rest of the long haul fleet in various stages of conversion, see http://view.ceros.com/united/polaris...-desktop-4/p/3

Q: How to tell if my aircraft is the new style Polaris seats?
A: If the unassigned business class section is showing orange seats or all the seats are side-by-side or there is a section for 4 adjacent seats in the middle, this is an old style lie-flat aircreaft
If the unassigned bussines class seats are dark blue seats or the all the seats appear to have direct aisle access, then you aircraft is the new Polaris seat.
You can also look at the FT maintained, United Fleet Site and crosscheck the tail number or check thePolaris Update tab

Q: How to tell if my aircraft has the new PremiumPlus (PP) / Premium Economy seats?
A: If the unassigned seats just behind business class are purple seats or the aircraft is 773 or 787-10, then yes. However, the purple color seat will only show on routes where PP is being sold.
Aircraft with PP seats are being used on some routes but are not being sold as PP. In those cases, the seats are considered to be a part of E+. In those cases, an indicator of PP sold as E+ will be if the first few rows of economy, there are just 2 seats on the sides (with the rest of E+ showing 3 seats).

Q: Will the aircraft I see at booking be the same configuration at flight time?
A: Unfortunately with the fleet in transit, aircraft swaps happen. UA tends to use placeholders until 2 days before travel and even after that last minute swaps do happen.

Q: My flight seat map shows 772 with polaris seats is it a retrofit?
A: Possibly. The flight status page shows the most accurate scheduled aircraft. If a 77W is swapped in, it will list the aircraft as 777-300ER. However, if the 772's seatmap shows blue rectangular boxes in the business class cabin instead of "pointy rounds", this would indicate that a retrofit aircraft has been swapped.

See also: United Future/Changed Routes w/ Polaris seats
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Old Feb 1, 17, 3:26 pm
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✨ Polaris (& PP) Retrofits: Schedule, ....

Has anybody heard anything substantial about when the 777-2 and 767 Polaris seat retrofits will start? So far I have heard nothing but unsubstantiated rumors ranging from "oh, I think they already have started retrofitting the first 767s" by a United staffer at the EWR Polaris event in August 2016 to "probably not anytime soon" by a 767 pilot on a EWR-AMS flight in late December 2016.

Feel free to post any retrofit updates in this thread (but ONLY about the retrofits - not about the delivery of new 777ERs, 787-10 and 350 which will come with Polaris seats ex factory).
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Old Feb 1, 17, 4:06 pm
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I'm actually a bit surprised that by now they haven't announced a retrofit schedule.

Other than the small trickle of the 773's coming online, I see no immediate relief from the current seats.
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Old Feb 1, 17, 4:33 pm
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Would United even retrofit 767s?
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Old Feb 1, 17, 4:40 pm
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As time goes on I am less optimistic about the remaining 67Is (three-cabin 763ERs) getting Polaris-ized. The oldest 767s in the fleet will be hitting their 30th birthdays in the not-so-distant future and maintenance/reliability costs are only going up, not to mention the ROI concern about putting a 7-10 year asset into an airplane that could conceivably be headed to part-out in the next 4-5 years.

I also would have at least expected one of the three-cabin 772s to be in the shop for the initial reconfiguration and STC approval. Soup-to-nuts, for what would be a major retrofit, we would be looking at a 12-14 week process, at minimum, before a regular mod line is certified, up and running.

Part of me wonders if the company is having some reservations about launching into a major fleetwide project (both new deliveries and reconfigurations) until it has some more feedback from customers about the 77W Polaris seat.

Alternatively, and perhaps more realistic, is the possibility the company is closer than we think on a premium economy product and would rather do 772 retrofits in one shot to include Polaris, PE and 3-4-3 Y, instead of the frustrating piecemeal approach that has been the hallmark of this company's fleet upgrade philosophy since the merger. One can hope...
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Old Feb 1, 17, 5:13 pm
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I have no problem with them leaving the 67I in 3-cabin form. That is my favorite airplane to fly on.

To EWR764's comment above, I do think it may be a product of both of those concerns. The basic J seat is the work of the previous regime, and the company seemed to roll it out with some insecurity, being cloudy at best when it came to commiting to 787 retrofits, the aircraft which will soon become the backbone of the international network.

This IS a high-density business class, and I suspect it is only a matter of time before we start seeing complaints relating to this reality. It feels to me like we're about to see another business class seat by 2020.
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Old Feb 1, 17, 7:24 pm
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Originally Posted by EWR764 View Post
Part of me wonders if the company is having some reservations about launching into a major fleetwide project (both new deliveries and reconfigurations) until it has some more feedback from customers about the 77W Polaris seat.

Alternatively, and perhaps more realistic, is the possibility the company is closer than we think on a premium economy product and would rather do 772 retrofits in one shot to include Polaris, PE and 3-4-3 Y, instead of the frustrating piecemeal approach that has been the hallmark of this company's fleet upgrade philosophy since the merger. One can hope...
So if the feedback on the 77W Polaris seat is less positive than expected, they are going to keep IPTE and the pmCO BF seats around for another 2 years while a new seat is designed and certified?

If your latter guess turns out to be right, I'll give that one .
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Old Feb 1, 17, 7:37 pm
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I a, also fine with not fitting 767s with Polaris hardware. Too much CAPEX with short period to recover the cost. I think the 767 can replace the 15 PS 757s on EWR-SFO/LAX routes. At least the seats will be consistent with the 16J 757s.

It is hard for me to see how many Polaris seats can fit into the 772. I guess once th e772 is fitted with 3-4-3 in Y, Polaris cabin can expand its real estate (from the current PMCO/PMUA J area) further into the economy cabin with no reduction in Y capacity.

I am guessing 44-48 Polaris seats on the 772s.

Regarding schedule, after experiencing almost a 7-year retrofiit schedule under PMUA in the last upgrade, I expect the time table goes well into the next decade.

Last edited by UA_Flyer; Feb 1, 17 at 7:47 pm
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Old Feb 1, 17, 7:43 pm
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Not to discredit what UA is doing with Polaris, because it is light years ahead of what they have now, but DL leapfrogged right over Polaris by announcing the business class suite with full closure door. Now, I think in retrospect, that's what UA should have done with Polaris to slam the door shut on both DL and AA when it comes to the premium cabin. However, UA is now locked into the Polaris seat that is coming out on the 77W. You wont see a full business class suite with door anytime soon and I bet Oscar wishes they thought of that idea first.

The 767's really shouldn't get them as someone above mentioned, its a waste of CAPEX, a large percentage of the UA 767 fleet is very long in the tooth and will be retired soon anyway. They have the flat beds so UA will just have to live with that until the 767s get replaced.

So, the problem UA is going to have is having to many different cabins spread out amongst their wide body fleet. And for the foreseeable future, a very small percentage of UA's international planes will have 1-2-1 flatbed seating. That in and of itself still puts them at a huge disadvantage. Frequent fliers aren't going to know what to expect. DL you know if your flying on a widebody, your getting 1-2-1 flatbed seating.

Last edited by KeepItReal; Feb 1, 17 at 7:57 pm
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Old Feb 1, 17, 8:38 pm
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Originally Posted by halls120 View Post
So if the feedback on the 77W Polaris seat is less positive than expected, they are going to keep IPTE and the pmCO BF seats around for another 2 years while a new seat is designed and certified?

If your latter guess turns out to be right, I'll give that one .
I'm thinking more along the lines of tweaks to the current seat as may be needed. I think UA is tied to the fundamentals of the design for now, but a series of roadshows and focus group testing is no substitute for in-service feedback.
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Old Feb 1, 17, 8:50 pm
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The 772s will have 50 polaris seats the 767s will have 30. The remaining 3-cabin 763s are up in the air in terms of being reconfigured.
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Old Feb 1, 17, 9:20 pm
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Originally Posted by JOSECONLSCREW28 View Post
The 772s will have 50 polaris seats the 767s will have 30. The remaining 3-cabin 763s are up in the air in terms of being reconfigured.
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Old Feb 2, 17, 3:55 am
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Originally Posted by EWR764 View Post
As time goes on I am less optimistic about the remaining 67Is (three-cabin 763ERs) getting Polaris-ized. The oldest 767s in the fleet will be hitting their 30th birthdays in the not-so-distant future and maintenance/reliability costs are only going up, not to mention the ROI concern about putting a 7-10 year asset into an airplane that could conceivably be headed to part-out in the next 4-5 years.

I also would have at least expected one of the three-cabin 772s to be in the shop for the initial reconfiguration and STC approval. Soup-to-nuts, for what would be a major retrofit, we would be looking at a 12-14 week process, at minimum, before a regular mod line is certified, up and running.

Part of me wonders if the company is having some reservations about launching into a major fleetwide project (both new deliveries and reconfigurations) until it has some more feedback from customers about the 77W Polaris seat.

Alternatively, and perhaps more realistic, is the possibility the company is closer than we think on a premium economy product and would rather do 772 retrofits in one shot to include Polaris, PE and 3-4-3 Y, instead of the frustrating piecemeal approach that has been the hallmark of this company's fleet upgrade philosophy since the merger. One can hope...
Interesting.

I would expect now would be the correct time of year to get some mods done. Interesting they haven't started on one yet.

I know next-to-nothing about this stuff. Are there seats available to get started on 772s?

If it is premium economy related, they need to address 773s as well. Rolling out Prem Econ on 772 and not 773s, which will be on some LONG routes, would be bizarre.
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Old Feb 2, 17, 4:13 am
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Originally Posted by UASleeper View Post
Has anybody heard anything substantial about when the 777-2 and 767 Polaris seat retrofits will start? So far I have heard nothing but unsubstantiated rumors ranging from "oh, I think they already have started retrofitting the first 767s" by a United staffer at the EWR Polaris event in August 2016 to "probably not anytime soon" by a 767 pilot on a EWR-AMS flight in late December 2016.

Feel free to post any retrofit updates in this thread (but ONLY about the retrofits - not about the delivery of new 777ERs, 787-10 and 350 which will come with Polaris seats ex factory).
At the United Polaris event in San Francisco last September, I was told:

The 777-300 is due for delivery in January and will come with the new Polaris seats. There will be 60 seats in C.

The planned retrofit is the 767s first, starting sometime between 2/17-4/17. There will be 30 seats in C. They will have a 1-1-1 configuration.

The 777-200 (excluding Hawaii Configuration) is planned to start sometime between 7/17-9/17. There will be 50 seats in C. 1-2-1 configuration.

The 787-900 will not be retrofitted with Polaris seats, even those still not delivered. The 787-10 orders will be delivered with the Polaris seats.

The Hawaii configured 772s will receive the old C lie flat international seats in a 2-4-2 configuration. They weren't sure how many or the time frame, but it would be similar to current C seating. They will receive the Saks linen.

The international 757s will receive some kind of Polaris seats. They haven't made a decision yet. They will receive the linens, as will the ps aircraft.

No new seats in the 747 which they will retire in 2018. (Now 2017)
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Old Feb 2, 17, 4:46 am
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Originally Posted by Pat89339 View Post
At the United Polaris event in San Francisco last September, I was told:

The 777-300 is due for delivery in January and will come with the new Polaris seats. There will be 60 seats in C.

The planned retrofit is the 767s first, starting sometime between 2/17-4/17. There will be 30 seats in C. They will have a 1-1-1 configuration.

The 777-200 (excluding Hawaii Configuration) is planned to start sometime between 7/17-9/17. There will be 50 seats in C. 1-2-1 configuration.

The 787-900 will not be retrofitted with Polaris seats, even those still not delivered. The 787-10 orders will be delivered with the Polaris seats.

The Hawaii configured 772s will receive the old C lie flat international seats in a 2-4-2 configuration. They weren't sure how many or the time frame, but it would be similar to current C seating. They will receive the Saks linen.

The international 757s will receive some kind of Polaris seats. They haven't made a decision yet. They will receive the linens, as will the ps aircraft.

No new seats in the 747 which they will retire in 2018. (Now 2017)
767's in a 1-1-1 configuration? Very wasteful to refit those old and nasty birds. Better use of that CAPEX would be to retrofit the 787's, they will be around a lot longer. Besides, the 767's are lie-flat already so just stick with it. They do short Europe hops anyway. Terrible call by OM. Shame that the 789s wont get true Polaris seats.

There are 35 763's and 31 787's. forget the 76's. Pour the money into the 78's. Oscar has recently said it himself, to make money you gotta spend money. You cant have an inferior product which is what they have in Polaris on the 78's.

Back to the 767, do they currently have in-seat IFE and if not, will they get it with the refurb?

Last edited by KeepItReal; Feb 2, 17 at 5:01 am
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Old Feb 2, 17, 5:26 am
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Originally Posted by Pat89339 View Post
The 787-900 will not be retrofitted with Polaris seats, even those still not delivered. The 787-10 orders will be delivered with the Polaris seats.
They are going to put Polaris seats on a sub-fleet that likely has less than 10 years to go in the fleet, and keep the obsolete no aisle access C seats on these brand new birds? Wow.

Did Smisek sneak back into the management team while no one was looking?

Last edited by halls120; Feb 2, 17 at 5:48 am
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