LarkSFO

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...es-2015-a.html

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...es-2014-a.html

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...es-2013-a.html

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...ad-2012-a.html

RealFan

I know several true HVFs (myself included) who purposefully choose UA without having to do so. Here are the facts:

- we have no corporate contract with UA
- we are free to fly any carrier we'd like
- we can book business class over an ocean, domestic first for flights over five hours, and economy for everything else

With those facts, the majority of the HVFs at my firm have chosen United. This is why:

- attaining GS allows for almost 100% domestic upgrades on those flights less than five hours
- UA's route structure gets almost everywhere we want to go
- earning superior RDMs allows us to take our families/friends on great vacations using UA
- ability to upgrade into GF from BF on a regular basis using GPUs or miles
- GS customer service is very satisfactory

When I say I know some flyers in this category, the number is over 50. I know others at competitive firms who feel the same. I think to oversimplify things is not looking at the whole picture. Certainly I could fly the foreign carriers in paid J/C/D but that wouldn't be helpful to my overall flying requirements. The GS program incents me to keep that flying on UA and since I can get into GF on almost all of my flights, I very much enjoy flying UA on purpose.

UAL4life

I hope you are communicating this A LOT with UA because that's the only chance it would have staying.

mduell

Or the B/E SuperDiamond, from their existing IPTE & LFBF vendor...

But I think any of those is a short sighted mistake, better to get a 2015 seat for their 2016-2025 deliveries.

JC1120

I will agree with you on Delta. AA isn't anywhere close to being finished, and therefore the product that's installed on the majority of their fleet isn't better. The Lufthansa Group has a terrible products in most of their fleet, as does AF/KLM. AF's new product might be better, but KLM's new product is identical to UA's current top line product. But both, as I understand it, are in very few of the planes at the moment.

Your comment on the PMUA 777 and the 747 - yes, those aren't great products, but those should be phasing out with the 77W and A350. I've easily managed to avoid those planes except for once, although that's probably more of a function of my origination point.

In general, I'd argue that only the Middle Eastern carriers and select Asian carriers (Thai, Cathay, and ANA) have better hard products.

BB2220

As long as it takes

bhrubin

Apparently, everyone thinks UA GF customers are simply going to switch to other carriers as UA GF continues to diminish and eventually disappears. Apparently, everyone forgets that DL already doesn't have F and that AA will end up in a year or two with only F on its 10 x 773ER equipment.

Most US business flyers will stick with a US carrier for the bulk of business travel--since the overwhelming majority of US business flyers still need to fly domestic routes, too. Foreign carriers F can be wonderful, but they don't help you on a single domestic route.

US business flyers who fly mostly to Asia will certainly be inclined to switch to an Asian carrier with better J or F, but those are a fraction of US business travelers. US business flyers who fly mostly to Europe will possibly be inclined to switch to European carriers, but those usually aren't as convenient for nonstop service from the US to anything more than the Euro carrier's hub airport. Business flyers prefer nonstop service, and the 3 US carriers will offer FAR more nonstop options from far more US cities to far more European destinations. So most US business flyers to Europe still are likely to stick with a US carrier lacking F. The fact is that most European carriers are decreasing their F TATL inventory, as well.

The end of F for US carriers on international longhaul flights is a foregone conclusion...and won't hardly impact the profits/revenues of any of the US carriers. Just ask DL--with the biggest profits of any carrier in the world in the past year or two and no F at all.

kevanyalowitz

I've been communicating this, as have others I know. UA doesn't seem to care...

UA-NYC

I know you've been corrected on this many, many times already, but the correct number is 20 :-:

RealFan

Quite honestly, I haven't communicated it to anyone. My view is that if AA ups its game and goes to an all aisle business class product that is available on all the flights I'd take, I'll look at completely leaving UA for AA at that time. However, as it stands today, UA has better seats on a more consistent basis for the flights I take and the GS program is superior to the CK program at AA.

In a year or two, if UA eliminates GF, doesn't solve for the all aisle access issue, and if AA ups its CK program and has successfully converted its business class to all aisle, there is a very high likelihood that I will return to AA where I spent 10 years+ as an EXP with the last three being CK as well.

So the very long answer to your short question is that I'm not speaking to UA directly but will decide what to do what is best for me on an annual basis. Today's it's UA. Who knows what 2016 will bring? I can see switching over in 2017.

bhrubin

I stand corrected then.

Either way, the only routes the AA 773ER flies are below. If you aren't flying to/from London or Sao Paolo, there is no AA F. So the impact of AA having F is limited to only those business flyers. Considering the only REALLY longhaul flight with serious traffic among them for US business travelers is LAX-LHR, there is little impact to AA having F on those relative to UA and DL's route maps.

Living in SoCal as I do, of course, none of the AA routes above make any difference to me except for LAX-LHR. I already have LAX-LHR F options with UA GF from both LAX and SFO, and those aren't going anywhere for quite some time. I already have LAX and SFO options to LHR in F on BA, as well.

Having flown LAX-MIA in AA's new F, I can say that UA's GF, old as it is, is still pretty comparable to AA's brand new F in terms of hard product. Having flown LHR-LAX in BA's new F on the A380, I can say that the BA hard product is a bit nicer than UA's GF but that I still prefer UA GF. (Even UA's GF food is better than that of BA F.)

The fact is that UA will have more GF than AA F on far more routes for quite some time--probably another 5-10 years, at least--before it disappears entirely. I'm quite happy with UA, therefore.

Kacee

Not sure where you're getting your information, but that's not correct. The 77W is flying DFW-HKG as well. I don't know if there are others, I'm not even an AA flyer.

bhrubin

I got it from the aa.com website!

http://www.aa.com/i18n/aboutUs/ourPl...L&title=fly777

Perhaps AA is flying the 777 on its DFW-HKG but not the 773ER? AA is currently flying F on other aircraft, but its plan is to remove F from all of its equipment except for its 773ER fleet. So there won't be many routes on AA that actually have F.

UA GF might not be introduced on any new equipment for UA, but it is present on FAR more equipment on UA than on AA now. So for the time being, F exists on FAR more longhaul flights and longhaul routes on UA than on AA. And UA GF is nicer than older AA F and comparable to AA new F.

I've flown F/J on most airlines, usually in F whenever possible/available (using points mostly, though I did pay $3200 most recently for EK F CPT-DXB-LAX this past Jan). The fact is that I'm still always amazed at how pleased I am with UA GF despite the nicer options/suites that are available on Gulf/Asian carriers. I wasn't as pleased with AA's new F. BA's F was beautiful but no more comfortable, and its food was atrocious. AF's F was beautiful and its food was better. LH's F was the best of all US/Euro carriers. CX F was wonderful, but I didn't sleep any better. SQ F was the best ever, followed by CX and EK for me. EY F was great hard product but lacked food options and had terrible IFE and ran out of things so often I stopped flying. OZ F was wonderful but had the worst IFE of all the major carriers--even Aeroflot J had better IFE. SA J was great, but felt very similar to UA J (though service was a bit better on SA). TK J was great--food, IFE, service, hard product, club. TG F was overrated--decent seat but so many problems with hard product working right and IFE that I also stopped using them.

With the benefit of flying so many different carriers in premium classes, it makes me appreciate UA GF and even UA J more than most. There are better out there, certainly...but I can't fly all of them to all of the destinations I want to all parts of the globe. From LAX and SFO, I can fly UA almost anywhere I want (except for Southern Africa, which is why I paid for EK F).

Kacee

You've been victimized by outdated info then.

AA is definitely flying the 77W (777-300ER) to HKG. American Airlines Launches New Service Between DFW and HKG and PVG

bhrubin

I knew of the new route and intention to fly the 7773ER on DFW-HKG. I just couldn't be sure of the status of that choice (whether AA already had starting using the 773ER or not).

Either way, this still doesn't impact my original premise: AA's F on the 773ER will only exist on about 5 routes as of now (instead of 4). UA already has GF on FAR more routes from far more hubs to far more destinations on FAR more planes. Even with GF diminishing over time, it will be many, many year--IMO at least 5-10 years--before UA GF drops below the frequency of AA F on its 773ERs.