davidviolin

I still think that UA should scrap the A350 orders and get in on the 777x. The 773 would just be a stop gap measure, and after a few years UA would sit with a few aircraft that would have lost alot of its value and would be hard to get rid of for a good price.

Utilize the 35 options for 787's and make the 744's last until they can be swapped for the 77x. Much easier to transition from the 772's and 744's to the 77x's than to the A350, plus the 77x's beats the A350 in terms of efficiency anyway. Just my two cents.

Always Flyin

You are assuming UA can just dump the A350 order.

I haven't reviewed the contracts, but you generally can't just walk away from contractual commitments.

Could they swap the orders for A320 series aircraft? A deal like that could probably get done, if UA wanted to.

B787938

My understanding is that sUA had ~ 50 A320 orders on the books that they put on pause after 9/11. The deposits they had on those frames were moved over the A350s. So, Airbus still does hold deposits from UAL.

Now back on topic - just announce the 777-330ER order already!

davidviolin

I don't think anyone here as access to those contracts, but it is not uncommon to defer or scrap orders. Emirates canceled 70 A350s about half year ago.

Always Flyin

You can do anything. It's just a matter of how much it costs you.

tuolumne

I bet you it's unlikely the 773 sees a new J seat (or doesn't get F suites initially), not with 10 772s and 763s in IPTE being converted. That leaves you with a lot of left over relatively modern B/E lie flat seats. EWR764 ran the numbers, and there's more than enough seats to go around.

JC1120

With the time it takes to finalize prototypes, certify the new seats, and place the order in time for the plane builds, I think there's less than a 5% chance we'll see a new J product in any 77W order. Should be ready in time for an A35X order though. Now as to F, I would give that a 0% chance of making it into any new or converted product based on things I've heard.

kevanyalowitz

The numbers work out.

So you think that this is a 100% chance that UA is going to deploy 2-cabin 773s with 2-4-2 J on some of their highest volume/value international routes?

davidviolin

It seems like these 733's are just a stop gap measure because 744's have to retire. So they are crunching numbers to see what in the short term makes most economical sense, without thinking long term.

In order to compete with asian and gulf carriers, they need to install first class suites. Maybe only 4 per a/c but they should have them. Unfortunately as its been mentioned here many times, upper UA mngt seems to think GF and BF are essentially the same product (which is true at this stage).

Instead of making a true GF product with First class suites, they are most likely going to cut GF all together. This is a mistake in my opinion, and will cost them in the future. Unfortunately UA does not seem to only plan a year or two ahead to the next earnings and investor call instead of investing in products and its employees. As for BF, they should make a goal of having direct isle access for all a/c.

There has been no mention of having GF on any new a/c or a retrofitted one for that matter after Smisek took over. I doubt that will change, unfortunately, unless theres a management shakeup and they get someone in charge from operation side, not lawyer side.

kevanyalowitz

In terms of 744 retirements - I seriously doubt all of the 744s will be retired soon. 11 are 1998 or newer and 13 are 1997 or newer. Thats newer than a number of the 772s and lots of the sCO 738s. UA has 10 1994 or older 744s that are likely in question here.

In terms of GF - I wouldn't be surprised if GF did stick around on the 773s simply because there would be little capex to use the sUA GF/B'F' seats being pulled from select 763s and 772s.

TennisNoob

I hope UA will follow through with like 4 F seats which is what many carriers are doing now instead of 8 of 'em.

davidviolin

There can be many reasons an airline wants to retire an AC, age is just one of them. The 744's are extremely uneconomical and uses a lot of fuel, which has been a reason the 773's have become so popular lately and many 744's have been retired early.

SwisherTown

FT's most favorite CFO John Rainey says United might switch out some 787 (788,789?) for 777-300ER and maybe not. 777X are too expensive and hence the 350-1000s but at one time he says he said that about the 300ERs. Later this year two 747s will be taken out of service. No plans to purchase anymore 747s, my favorite plane.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0LZ08920150303

Previously reported in this same thread here:
[QUOTE=Longboater;24447501]http://mobile.reuters.com/article/id...50303?irpc=932

TennisNoob

One thing I'm always curious about.

If UA has 10 abreast seating on the 747 which is a bit wider in size than the 77W, can UA do 11 Abreast (3-5-3)if it chooses to get the 747-8?

JC1120

I've been told that there has been essentially zero investment in a updated GF product, including the GFLs. In fact, the discussion with the GFLs is a conversion to GS/BF product instead. So reading between the lines, it tells me that GF is gone and we'll see a C/E+/E- airline going forward.

From a FF perspective, sometimes it'd be nice to have the GF for award tickets or GPU upgrades. However, like most people, I could never justify paying for it on this airline, or another airline. So, if there's no intention to put the investment into make it a competitive product, I'd rather them convert the GFLs into United Clubs (or maybe BusinessFirst clubs) and give us more BF seats on the plane (which increases both $$ and award availability).