Sulley

Working the gates.

MaximusDamon

Folks, just because the FTers handle has the airport code "COS" in it doesn't mean he was at COS when this incident happened (he probably lives in COS or lived in COS when he opened his FT account.

He clearly says in his post that he was at the Crowne Plaza Festival City, which is in DUBAI (DXB) airport and YES UA Mainline flies there and he has no reason to make up stories about what he would have overheard from the pilots that would be chatting too loudly in the bar there.

No need to go off on a tangent about whether UA mainline or UX serves COS.

JBEagle1000G

It's so weird..........like a self destruct button was pressed on the Morning of March 3rd.
I'm just asstonished at the SPEED of the fall.

ualp

OK.

So, are you trying to imply that these are invalid, some kind of job action?
Yeah, I know, you were "just stating the facts". I don't think so.
You didn't say that was your implication, but you KNOW that's what folks here would think when you make the statement that you did.

The FACT is that there is NO job action.
Just 'cause folks say it is so doesn't make it so.
The company would LOVE for that to be the case, but it is not.
Can't pin this summer on us.

EX:
We were running late yesterday. (Actually, late EVERY day of trip)
Did every trick in the book to make up time to protect our intl connections.
Pulled up to our gate with about 25 min. to spare for the intl folks.
Sat there for 20 MIN waiting for martiallers.
The intl folks got to watch their flt pushback several gates down from us.

THAT is an example of mgt's failure to adequately schedule and staff our airline.
Only one instance. Saw similar situations on every leg over a 4-day trip.
No CS agent to position jetway, late fueling, no parts, late bags, no pilot or f/a crews, late/inaccurate weight and balance info, etc.
Multiply this by all the flts across the system.
Voila! Meltdown on a daily basis.

The mechanism for failure was created over the past two years since our merger was transacted.
We don't have to do ANYTHING but show up to work and experience this place falling apart.
Mgt is so deep in it now that they probably have no idea how to extract themselves from the mire.
This summer will just have to play out and we'll have to hope we survive this latest incarnation of arrogance and incompetence.
Not like we didn't try to warn folks.

Lots of haters out there.
Don't be a hater.

zombietooth

Ah, the voice of reason.^

It's nice to see someone who reads the posts from the beginning and can follow linear logic.

I am just a bystander here with no idea what is going on with the delays and no dog in this fight, but I do believe that it is poor form to imply that cosflyer is lying--it does nothing to strengthen the arguments of his detractors.

ualp

Did he check their IDs to verify they were United crew?
We have a LOT of furloughee folks flying for Emirates and other carriers.
Pretty sure that United is not the only carrier that serves Dubai.
This just as easily could have been one of our furloughee people, or other ex-pat flyers, talking about what they THOUGHT was going on at United.

COS hears a couple people in a bar and tries to insinuate that they represent evidence of some job action at United.
Umm, kind of weak.
Though, I won't be surprised if I see this thread in the evidence submissions when the company tries to take us to court again.
That's what happened in the last one. I read the evidence files.
They had entire threads from several different blogs in their evidence pool.

Got folks all over the place throwing out little grenades to insinuate that there is a coordinated pilot job action.
Just isn't true. We'd already be in court if it was.
Wouldn't surprise me if there are mgt minions out here trying to plant those seeds.
However, nothing will take root, 'cause it just ain't happening.

ualp

Also "poor form" for him to imply that two guys in a bar constitute a job action.

Just sayin'

nnn

I think one question that, from what I can tell, is not being addressed is whether UAL pilots are holding planes to a stricter fly/no-fly standard than they did, say, last year.

If they are tightening the standard, they could still be within their contractual rights, and thus perhaps can claim there is no "job action." But if they are being tighter now where they were looser before, that would still lead to a higher cancellation rate -- notwithstanding maintenance issues.

Whether the pilots are actually imposing tougher standards -- I guess only they would know.

freshairborne

That's United Express, not United Airlines.

FAB

zombietooth

What other interpretation could he have put on these UA pilots saying that they were refusing planes on purpose?

Do you have some "loose cannons" in the union that are trying to stir-up trouble or something? Are there a group of hardliners that are doing this while the more reasonable members, such as yourself, are trying to keep the lid on the situation so that it doesn't spread?

freshairborne

Yes, the planes say UNITED on the side, but neither the airplanes nor the pilots are United.

FAB

halls120

Given the increased cross fleeting, which results in sUA planes overnighting at sCO hubs, and sCO planes overnighting at sUA hubs, are you really surprised? There's that little annoyance called lack of spare parts and certified mechanics, right?

FlyWorld

I can provide a supporting example. My last flight was domestic. We got excellent tailwinds and landed about 20 minutes early. We landed in the international terminal instead of domestic terminal. The FAs didn't even know we landed in the wrong terminal. I was the one who told them (it's a bad sign when you fly so much that you can identify the terminal just by its external appearance airside). They didn't believe me so they double checked. Sure enough, it was true. We sat there for more than 20 minutes waiting for someone to show up and let us out of the plane. Then, PAX had to scramble to figure out what to do next. How to get from international terminal to domestic terminal, where to go for baggage claim, how to deal with security and access points. For me, it was a piece of cake since I know SFO as well as my own house, but for most on the plane, it was really confusing. The GA who finally let us out of the plane was sweating and flustered. She was an international gate agent and she said that she is not supposed to work domestic flights. The management should have scheduled a domestic GA to meet the plane when it landed at the international terminal but they didn't do that - so she rushed over to help us when he help was finally requested. This experience matches exactly what you described.

Has anyone thought to consider that rejecting a faulty aircraft that needs maintenance might actually be saving lives?

freshairborne

I'm sure you're right, but they're not on layovers there since United doesn't fly into and out of the Springs.

I still am not sure what costlier is referring to re: sitting in a bar. Must have been on some other thread. So, his/her reference to me for not refuting it was pretty moot.

FAB

OK, I just realized that Festival City is not in Colorado Springs. I'm not the jet-setter you are, I guess.

FAB

johnmont

My second flight in two weeks ORD-LAX cancelled this morning. Problem was a mechanical (rudder), so there apparently wasn't a replacement plane. In fact, on a perfectly sunny day, all ORD-LAX flights from 9am - 1pm have been delayed at least two hours today as well. Three for servicing.

This is a bit tangential to the thread, but the cancellations truly causing problems overall. The things I ran into today were frustrating and must be for those who aren't 1K and don't get to the top of the line.

Cancellations will happen -- fact of life. But what is annoying is the following lack of customer service related items from United. It seems as though a lack of being able to deal effectively with problems is part of the system now, which is not what United was like before.

This inability to deal inevitably trickles down to the front line where I gotta say I'm sick and tired of seeing passengers being treated poorly by crabby agents and flight attendants. Yes...I know the job is hard. My job is hard. I'm not saying it's all their fault, but they do share blame. In my opinion it seems to be the flawed system that seems to beat the United employees down since they have to deal with large number of problems.

No notifications
The 933am flight was cancelled at 11:00 am (2 1/2 hours ago). I still haven't received an update from United regarding this. Last week's notification was received after I landed at LAX.

Got a flight notification from Tripit and FlightTrack on iPhone 2 minutes before the gate attendant announced it. This allowed me to call the premiere line (where the call was answered immediately) and rebook to Orange County in the only confirmable direct flight available.


No auto re-booking
This was probably one of the best things about the previous United IT infrastructure that has been lost. Having no auto rebooking leads to clogged phone lines and huge lines (see below).

Not having it now points out how brilliant it was before. I feel horrible I can't remember the catchy name for it


Lack of proactive info for travelers = cranky agents
In an twist, the next flight to LAX that seemed logical for getting on the standby list was a 1:00 flight at C17. However, this gate was actually previously a cancelled SFO 757 flight. With no notifications visible, customers (quite logically) would come up to the gate and ask what the deal was since the monitors all said the flight was to LAX. I think this is logical when their tickets (and displays) still point them to the gate. This happened at least a dozen times. Yes...12.

But the messed up part was that instead of just telling them, each time she would say absolutely nothing directly to them. Instead, she would get on the PA and make the announcement about the cancellation and that passengers needed to go to customer service. This happened probably a dozen times. Now I can see doing this if a large number of passengers was hanging around, but it was totally clear that passengers weren't congregating in the gate area...they were simply approaching the gate one by one. It came off as really rude (especially her huffing and puffing). I know it's really rough on the front line...I get that. But taking it out on passengers is part of the problem.

In the same announcement, she kept saying it would be 15 minutes before she could assist LAX passengers. So after 25 minutes she started helping people...and I got in line. I was 6th in line and it took about 15 minutes to get to the point where I was second in line. At which point, she disappeared onto the plane for 5 minutes without saying anything...then came back out and said the flight had been moved to B9. She was being reassigned and could not help any more customers in line...I'd need to go to B9 for help.

I refused to go away. I was firm, but polite, explaining I did exactly what she asked me to do (wait and give her time to clear paperwork, etc). She initially accused me of arguing and being confrontational but I stood my ground and did have time to convince her I was being reasonable and not rude. I simply explained what happened and she warmed up and did try to help. And it meant a great deal to me that she did....that's what customer service is about imho.


Couldn't put me on standby to LAX

Because I got rebooked to SNA, she was unable to put me on the standby list for any LAX flight. This is unlike before, where I've been able to do this in the past between SNA and LAX. Must be a SHARES thing...or something I don't understand. This is after the agent on the phone (who was helpful) told me it would be no problem. This type of conflicting information is annoying....


"Customer Service" Line

See attached photo.

Sorry, but it's not customer service when there are 122 people in line trying to get help. Yes, I counted. That's called customer fisting. Even the Red Carpet club had about 25 people in line. That's why I headed to the gate.

It's my hunch that these lines are caused by an inability to quickly do things that used to be very quick in the past, as well as the lack of things like the auto-rebooking. That would save a tremendous number of enquiries I would think...freeing up agents to do other things.