United Cancellations Getting Insane
Jul 16, 2012, 9:40 pm
#151
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,123
I've been trying to be patient with UAL during this whole merger transition process. The past 2 weeks have pushed me over the top, so I am done with them. 8 of my last 14 flights have either been delayed or canceled. Last week I was heading GSO-ORD-LAX with the family for vacation. Got up that morning, checked the flight status, showed delayed 2 hours. OK so far as we had a 3 1/2 hour layover in ORD. Continue to monitor, and the delayed time holds, so we head to the airport. Check in, check our 5 suitcases, head to security. I just load my stuff on the x-ray belt, and the United agent is at the security checkpoint hollering my name, telling me the flight just canceled. I walk back to the ticket counter, and after a while, get re-routed GSO-CLT_LAX on US Airways (United can't get me tp LAX until almost midnight). I was told the inbound plane went mechanical, and was coming from Dayton Ohio (there are no DAY>GSO routes, so they were obviously scrambling to find us a plane.)
Then on our return trip home last Wednesday (redeye), we are almost an hour delayed leaving LAX because they had to replace a reading light bulb five rows behind me (seriously - is it really necessary to have all the reading lights working???) We get to IAD late of course, and we have 20 minutes to get to our connection. At our arrival gate I ask the gate agent to call our departing gate and tell them we are coming (5 of us). We run to the train, get to A concourse, run to our gate and the flight is closed (still 5 minutes before departure). Gat agent said operations told him to close it even though they can see we are on the ground. BTW, no one ever called him to tell him we were on the way. I pretty much lose it at this point, and lay into the gate agent. The plane is still sitting there, boearding door still open. He calls his supervisor, and they actually re-opened the flight and let us board. This was the only bright spot.
To top it off, I had a business trip this morning, GSO-ORD-MSN. Get to GSO for 6:19am flight, all shows on time. Wait, wait, wait some more. Finally about 6:10 the gate agent gets on the speaker and says they are looking for the crew - waiting for operations to get back to them. FInally the crew shows up about 6:45 (no reason given for the delay...but it was not required crew rest). We take off at 7:15, land at ORD at 7:45, and I somehow make a 17 minute connection.
Too many problems/cancellations/delays. I travel 150 - 175 segments a year, and I have never seen it this bad. I will push my business to US Airways and Delta. Sayonara United...
Then on our return trip home last Wednesday (redeye), we are almost an hour delayed leaving LAX because they had to replace a reading light bulb five rows behind me (seriously - is it really necessary to have all the reading lights working???) We get to IAD late of course, and we have 20 minutes to get to our connection. At our arrival gate I ask the gate agent to call our departing gate and tell them we are coming (5 of us). We run to the train, get to A concourse, run to our gate and the flight is closed (still 5 minutes before departure). Gat agent said operations told him to close it even though they can see we are on the ground. BTW, no one ever called him to tell him we were on the way. I pretty much lose it at this point, and lay into the gate agent. The plane is still sitting there, boearding door still open. He calls his supervisor, and they actually re-opened the flight and let us board. This was the only bright spot.
To top it off, I had a business trip this morning, GSO-ORD-MSN. Get to GSO for 6:19am flight, all shows on time. Wait, wait, wait some more. Finally about 6:10 the gate agent gets on the speaker and says they are looking for the crew - waiting for operations to get back to them. FInally the crew shows up about 6:45 (no reason given for the delay...but it was not required crew rest). We take off at 7:15, land at ORD at 7:45, and I somehow make a 17 minute connection.
Too many problems/cancellations/delays. I travel 150 - 175 segments a year, and I have never seen it this bad. I will push my business to US Airways and Delta. Sayonara United...
AD
Jul 16, 2012, 9:42 pm
#152
Join Date: Apr 2003
Programs: B6 Mosaic, Bonvoy LT Titanium (x SPG LT), IHG Spire, UA Silver
Posts: 5,849
Jul 16, 2012, 9:45 pm
#153
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: US
Programs: AA/UA/DL
Posts: 2,773
passengers and try to drive them away. You, the pilot, are here to do
customer service/relations. COdbaUA's and managements and CS are
WE DON'T CARE 2 while their pilots do care about the passengers.
Thank you for being here.
Jul 16, 2012, 10:10 pm
#154
Join Date: Jan 2007
Programs: UA 1k
Posts: 507
Well at least thanks for the postings.
I've had a couple of bum flights, but not to that extent.
Certainly going to sell my shares of UA now, and consider shorting them before earnings.
I've had a couple of bum flights, but not to that extent.
Certainly going to sell my shares of UA now, and consider shorting them before earnings.
Jul 16, 2012, 10:11 pm
#155
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 272
It's funny. When the airline that you work actually doesn't care about
passengers and try to drive them away. You, the pilot, are here to do
customer service/relations. COdbaUA's and managements and CS are
WE DON'T CARE 2 while their pilots do care about the passengers.
Thank you for being here.
passengers and try to drive them away. You, the pilot, are here to do
customer service/relations. COdbaUA's and managements and CS are
WE DON'T CARE 2 while their pilots do care about the passengers.
Thank you for being here.
It's ALWAYS been that way with regards to most front line employees.
Many of us have been here 20, 30, and 40+ years.
We were here yesterday and we'll be here tomorrow. Long term careers invested in the company.
The mgts come and go, continually trying to reinvent the wheel, while disregarding the experience of long term frontline people.
Does anyone seriously think that we WANT to do a bad job?
Given the right tools we can RULE! We've done it before.
The mid-ESOP years and the Shuttle days are an example.
Hardly perfect, but we were a helluva lot better then than now.
I could sure do without all the delays and grief.
It would be nice to get a good layover vs sitting around the airport waiting for my plane.
I'd like to get home at the time I posted on our family calendar.
Reality?
Probably not gonna see it this summer.
Jul 16, 2012, 10:33 pm
#156
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 83
OK.
Where is this? Probably a PMUA city.
So, are you trying to imply that these are invalid, some kind of job action?
Yeah, I know, you were "just stating the facts". I don't think so.
You didn't say that was your implication, but you KNOW that's what folks here would think when you make the statement that you did.
The FACT is that there is NO job action.
Just 'cause folks say it is so doesn't make it so.
The company would LOVE for that to be the case, but it is not.
Can't pin this summer on us.
EX:
We were running late yesterday. (Actually, late EVERY day of trip)
Did every trick in the book to make up time to protect our intl connections.
Pulled up to our gate with about 25 min. to spare for the intl folks.
Sat there for 20 MIN waiting for martiallers.
The intl folks got to watch their flt pushback several gates down from us.
THAT is an example of mgt's failure to adequately schedule and staff our airline.
Only one instance. Saw similar situations on every leg over a 4-day trip.
No CS agent to position jetway, late fueling, no parts, late bags, no pilot or f/a crews, late/inaccurate weight and balance info, etc.
Multiply this by all the flts across the system.
Voila! Meltdown on a daily basis.
The mechanism for failure was created over the past two years since our merger was transacted.
We don't have to do ANYTHING but show up to work and experience this place falling apart.
Mgt is so deep in it now that they probably have no idea how to extract themselves from the mire.
This summer will just have to play out and we'll have to hope we survive this latest incarnation of arrogance and incompetence.
Not like we didn't try to warn folks.
Lots of haters out there.
Don't be a hater.
Where is this? Probably a PMUA city.
So, are you trying to imply that these are invalid, some kind of job action?
Yeah, I know, you were "just stating the facts". I don't think so.
You didn't say that was your implication, but you KNOW that's what folks here would think when you make the statement that you did.
The FACT is that there is NO job action.
Just 'cause folks say it is so doesn't make it so.
The company would LOVE for that to be the case, but it is not.
Can't pin this summer on us.
EX:
We were running late yesterday. (Actually, late EVERY day of trip)
Did every trick in the book to make up time to protect our intl connections.
Pulled up to our gate with about 25 min. to spare for the intl folks.
Sat there for 20 MIN waiting for martiallers.
The intl folks got to watch their flt pushback several gates down from us.
THAT is an example of mgt's failure to adequately schedule and staff our airline.
Only one instance. Saw similar situations on every leg over a 4-day trip.
No CS agent to position jetway, late fueling, no parts, late bags, no pilot or f/a crews, late/inaccurate weight and balance info, etc.
Multiply this by all the flts across the system.
Voila! Meltdown on a daily basis.
The mechanism for failure was created over the past two years since our merger was transacted.
We don't have to do ANYTHING but show up to work and experience this place falling apart.
Mgt is so deep in it now that they probably have no idea how to extract themselves from the mire.
This summer will just have to play out and we'll have to hope we survive this latest incarnation of arrogance and incompetence.
Not like we didn't try to warn folks.
Lots of haters out there.
Don't be a hater.
Jul 16, 2012, 10:39 pm
#157
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 83
That long line is due to poor fleet reliability, and load factors so high that it takes time to find ANY open seats. Enough of the shares blaming, CO ran a fine airline on "antiquated" shares.
My second flight in two weeks ORD-LAX cancelled this morning. Problem was a mechanical (rudder), so there apparently wasn't a replacement plane. In fact, on a perfectly sunny day, all ORD-LAX flights from 9am - 1pm have been delayed at least two hours today as well. Three for servicing.
This is a bit tangential to the thread, but the cancellations truly causing problems overall. The things I ran into today were frustrating and must be for those who aren't 1K and don't get to the top of the line.
Cancellations will happen -- fact of life. But what is annoying is the following lack of customer service related items from United. It seems as though a lack of being able to deal effectively with problems is part of the system now, which is not what United was like before.
This inability to deal inevitably trickles down to the front line where I gotta say I'm sick and tired of seeing passengers being treated poorly by crabby agents and flight attendants. Yes...I know the job is hard. My job is hard. I'm not saying it's all their fault, but they do share blame. In my opinion it seems to be the flawed system that seems to beat the United employees down since they have to deal with large number of problems.
No notifications
The 933am flight was cancelled at 11:00 am (2 1/2 hours ago). I still haven't received an update from United regarding this. Last week's notification was received after I landed at LAX.
Got a flight notification from Tripit and FlightTrack on iPhone 2 minutes before the gate attendant announced it. This allowed me to call the premiere line (where the call was answered immediately) and rebook to Orange County in the only confirmable direct flight available.
No auto re-booking
This was probably one of the best things about the previous United IT infrastructure that has been lost. Having no auto rebooking leads to clogged phone lines and huge lines (see below).
Not having it now points out how brilliant it was before. I feel horrible I can't remember the catchy name for it
Lack of proactive info for travelers = cranky agents
In an twist, the next flight to LAX that seemed logical for getting on the standby list was a 1:00 flight at C17. However, this gate was actually previously a cancelled SFO 757 flight. With no notifications visible, customers (quite logically) would come up to the gate and ask what the deal was since the monitors all said the flight was to LAX. I think this is logical when their tickets (and displays) still point them to the gate. This happened at least a dozen times. Yes...12.
But the messed up part was that instead of just telling them, each time she would say absolutely nothing directly to them. Instead, she would get on the PA and make the announcement about the cancellation and that passengers needed to go to customer service. This happened probably a dozen times. Now I can see doing this if a large number of passengers was hanging around, but it was totally clear that passengers weren't congregating in the gate area...they were simply approaching the gate one by one. It came off as really rude (especially her huffing and puffing). I know it's really rough on the front line...I get that. But taking it out on passengers is part of the problem.
In the same announcement, she kept saying it would be 15 minutes before she could assist LAX passengers. So after 25 minutes she started helping people...and I got in line. I was 6th in line and it took about 15 minutes to get to the point where I was second in line. At which point, she disappeared onto the plane for 5 minutes without saying anything...then came back out and said the flight had been moved to B9. She was being reassigned and could not help any more customers in line...I'd need to go to B9 for help.
I refused to go away. I was firm, but polite, explaining I did exactly what she asked me to do (wait and give her time to clear paperwork, etc). She initially accused me of arguing and being confrontational but I stood my ground and did have time to convince her I was being reasonable and not rude. I simply explained what happened and she warmed up and did try to help. And it meant a great deal to me that she did....that's what customer service is about imho.
Couldn't put me on standby to LAX
Because I got rebooked to SNA, she was unable to put me on the standby list for any LAX flight. This is unlike before, where I've been able to do this in the past between SNA and LAX. Must be a SHARES thing...or something I don't understand. This is after the agent on the phone (who was helpful) told me it would be no problem. This type of conflicting information is annoying....
"Customer Service" Line
See attached photo.
Sorry, but it's not customer service when there are 122 people in line trying to get help. Yes, I counted. That's called customer fisting. Even the Red Carpet club had about 25 people in line. That's why I headed to the gate.
It's my hunch that these lines are caused by an inability to quickly do things that used to be very quick in the past, as well as the lack of things like the auto-rebooking. That would save a tremendous number of enquiries I would think...freeing up agents to do other things.
This is a bit tangential to the thread, but the cancellations truly causing problems overall. The things I ran into today were frustrating and must be for those who aren't 1K and don't get to the top of the line.
Cancellations will happen -- fact of life. But what is annoying is the following lack of customer service related items from United. It seems as though a lack of being able to deal effectively with problems is part of the system now, which is not what United was like before.
This inability to deal inevitably trickles down to the front line where I gotta say I'm sick and tired of seeing passengers being treated poorly by crabby agents and flight attendants. Yes...I know the job is hard. My job is hard. I'm not saying it's all their fault, but they do share blame. In my opinion it seems to be the flawed system that seems to beat the United employees down since they have to deal with large number of problems.
No notifications
The 933am flight was cancelled at 11:00 am (2 1/2 hours ago). I still haven't received an update from United regarding this. Last week's notification was received after I landed at LAX.
Got a flight notification from Tripit and FlightTrack on iPhone 2 minutes before the gate attendant announced it. This allowed me to call the premiere line (where the call was answered immediately) and rebook to Orange County in the only confirmable direct flight available.
No auto re-booking
This was probably one of the best things about the previous United IT infrastructure that has been lost. Having no auto rebooking leads to clogged phone lines and huge lines (see below).
Not having it now points out how brilliant it was before. I feel horrible I can't remember the catchy name for it
Lack of proactive info for travelers = cranky agents
In an twist, the next flight to LAX that seemed logical for getting on the standby list was a 1:00 flight at C17. However, this gate was actually previously a cancelled SFO 757 flight. With no notifications visible, customers (quite logically) would come up to the gate and ask what the deal was since the monitors all said the flight was to LAX. I think this is logical when their tickets (and displays) still point them to the gate. This happened at least a dozen times. Yes...12.
But the messed up part was that instead of just telling them, each time she would say absolutely nothing directly to them. Instead, she would get on the PA and make the announcement about the cancellation and that passengers needed to go to customer service. This happened probably a dozen times. Now I can see doing this if a large number of passengers was hanging around, but it was totally clear that passengers weren't congregating in the gate area...they were simply approaching the gate one by one. It came off as really rude (especially her huffing and puffing). I know it's really rough on the front line...I get that. But taking it out on passengers is part of the problem.
In the same announcement, she kept saying it would be 15 minutes before she could assist LAX passengers. So after 25 minutes she started helping people...and I got in line. I was 6th in line and it took about 15 minutes to get to the point where I was second in line. At which point, she disappeared onto the plane for 5 minutes without saying anything...then came back out and said the flight had been moved to B9. She was being reassigned and could not help any more customers in line...I'd need to go to B9 for help.
I refused to go away. I was firm, but polite, explaining I did exactly what she asked me to do (wait and give her time to clear paperwork, etc). She initially accused me of arguing and being confrontational but I stood my ground and did have time to convince her I was being reasonable and not rude. I simply explained what happened and she warmed up and did try to help. And it meant a great deal to me that she did....that's what customer service is about imho.
Couldn't put me on standby to LAX
Because I got rebooked to SNA, she was unable to put me on the standby list for any LAX flight. This is unlike before, where I've been able to do this in the past between SNA and LAX. Must be a SHARES thing...or something I don't understand. This is after the agent on the phone (who was helpful) told me it would be no problem. This type of conflicting information is annoying....
"Customer Service" Line
See attached photo.
Sorry, but it's not customer service when there are 122 people in line trying to get help. Yes, I counted. That's called customer fisting. Even the Red Carpet club had about 25 people in line. That's why I headed to the gate.
It's my hunch that these lines are caused by an inability to quickly do things that used to be very quick in the past, as well as the lack of things like the auto-rebooking. That would save a tremendous number of enquiries I would think...freeing up agents to do other things.
Jul 16, 2012, 10:49 pm
#159
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: US
Programs: AA/UA/DL
Posts: 2,773
Good customer service needs to be done by everyone in this company.
While most front line employees try to do the best of their job, the mgts took
their tool away and push them to a terrible situation. In addition, the mgts keeps saying or doing some negative things to their customers and try to push people away but the employees have to clean what mgts have done.
It's very funny for me to see this contrast.
BTW, when I say thank you for being here to AD, I mean real thank you.
While most front line employees try to do the best of their job, the mgts took
their tool away and push them to a terrible situation. In addition, the mgts keeps saying or doing some negative things to their customers and try to push people away but the employees have to clean what mgts have done.
It's very funny for me to see this contrast.
BTW, when I say thank you for being here to AD, I mean real thank you.
Jul 16, 2012, 10:50 pm
#160
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 83
sUA planes were never maintained st levels to approach the kind of utilization rates of sCO planes. The result, more planes on mechs. From what I understand, they are addressing this currently by spending more money on maintenance. What is disconcerting is sCO planes going mech as well, in numbers well higher than when CO was a stand alone carrier.
The combined carrier seems more willing to just cancel a flight than looking to operate it. sCO's completion factor was consistently in the 90 percent range, it has fallen off considerably with the combined company. Is this an sUA operational policy?
The combined carrier seems more willing to just cancel a flight than looking to operate it. sCO's completion factor was consistently in the 90 percent range, it has fallen off considerably with the combined company. Is this an sUA operational policy?
Help us understand then WHAT is going on that seems to be causing massive amounts of cancellations (relatively speaking) compared to years past.
Is it the cross-fleeting?
Is it lack of spare parts?
Is it lack of spare planes?
Fewer hours for maintenance?
Higher utilization?
All of the above?
Fortunately I usually travel the day before a project, so I can absorb delays and cancellations - but I would not recommend UA to anyone right now who doesn't have the luxury.
Is it the cross-fleeting?
Is it lack of spare parts?
Is it lack of spare planes?
Fewer hours for maintenance?
Higher utilization?
All of the above?
Fortunately I usually travel the day before a project, so I can absorb delays and cancellations - but I would not recommend UA to anyone right now who doesn't have the luxury.
Jul 16, 2012, 10:55 pm
#161
Used to be PWMRamper
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: ATL
Programs: Marriott Platinum
Posts: 999
It's funny. When the airline that you work actually doesn't care about
passengers and try to drive them away. You, the pilot, are here to do
customer service/relations. COdbaUA's and managements and CS are
WE DON'T CARE 2 while their pilots do care about the passengers.
Thank you for being here.
passengers and try to drive them away. You, the pilot, are here to do
customer service/relations. COdbaUA's and managements and CS are
WE DON'T CARE 2 while their pilots do care about the passengers.
Thank you for being here.
Plenty of CS employees, myself included, do everything we can to make the passenger's experience as pleasant as possible.
We're just as frustrated as you are by the past few weeks/months.
The past 2 weeks have been among the most harried I've experienced in my time as a CS Agent. I did not have one smooth day in the past two weeks of work. Today came closest, and still every plane left late. Throw in the fact that I was stuck in ORD after training for ~32 hours due to 2 cancellations, and let's just say I'm happy for the weekend.
That being said, I still take pride in my job and do everything I can to help out. Friday, for instance, I had a 4 hour delay to ORD and a 3 hour delay to IAD. Easily one of the worst days I've ever had at the Gate. And yet, the passengers were fantastic, and both they and I left smiling when all was said and done.
Sure there are some bad apples among CS employees, but a large amount of them care greatly about this airline and its passengers, despite what's happened since March.
Jul 16, 2012, 10:59 pm
#162
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 83
I've experienced both UA and CO hubs before and after the merger. IAH and ORD. The two operations are like night and day. While the UA fanboys on here will disagree, the UA ops in ORD is a nightmare with cancellations and planes going mech and poor pax service a daily occurence. Not even close. You better pray that Smisek and the CO team can turn this thing around, if he succeeds, he earns my nomination for Time's MOY.
Jul 16, 2012, 11:16 pm
#164
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: FL 290 through FL390
Posts: 1,687
there's a girl flying backwards out the door"
Written and recorded by the (locally) famous songwriter guitarist/lead singer from the band "Dogs in the Yard".
I used to be the drummer in that band......
...or any lyrics (and drum parts) from any Tower of Power songs.....
FAB
Jul 16, 2012, 11:23 pm
#165
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: 1P, AA EXP, SPG Gold
Posts: 1,491
You can check it out yourself every day:
http://www.flightstats.com/go/Airlin...airlineCode=UA
down to 66% on-time so far today...
http://www.flightstats.com/go/Airlin...airlineCode=UA
down to 66% on-time so far today...